Helter skelter in Germany...

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Hervé Love
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Helter skelter in Germany...

Postby Hervé Love » Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:47 am

Well, I assume that most of the Lynch's community heard of that visit in Germany that turned into fiasco...

http://www.ecopolis.org/lynch-and-the-i ... e-germany/

What do you think of that ?
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Tonya J
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Postby Tonya J » Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:54 am

I dunno - I've been thinking about what I read at the link but can't watch the videos here at work. Since I don't know a lot about the work of the DL Foundation, but have an intuitive sense they mean no harm in any way, this sounds like an extremely unfortunate major miscommunication.

I can certainly understand the viewpoint of the audience hearing verbiage like that. Germany as a country, from everything I've read, has an ongoing sense of guilt and terror about the legacy of Hitler. God, who wouldn't. And the thought that someone might want to re-form some kind of evil regime would be horribly upsetting. Far be it from me to tell the DL group how to present their talks and programs, but they might want to give some thought to possible perception on the part of an audience that knows little to nothing about them. On the other hand, when I think about David Lynch and TM devotees goose-stepping down the streets of the world, trying to convert people into their "cult," my innate sense of disbelief and sarcasm goes into full gear. And a little bit of anger (edit- actually, also laughter at the Mel Brooks images that come into my mind).

Meditation has never hurt anyone ** and there are different forms that can be beneficial, not just TM. People need to watch what they call a cult, you know? Give me definitive proof that David Lynch and his work with trying to help people be mindful and peaceful through TM is hurtful, and I will take another hard look at the program. Until then, hysterical rhetoric isn't going to benefit anyone.

**Proviso: Anything that is done in an overboard manner can potentially be hurtful. I always remember the words of Buddha about the middle way (paraphrased): "If the string of a lute is too loose, the instrument cannot be played. If too tight, the string may break. The middle way is best."

(Sorry about the edits - I often type on the fly from work and know I've probably made mistakes)
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MichaelPW
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Postby MichaelPW » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:39 am

I know the official ideas included in the book of David Lynch. And the things this guy from german TM doesn`t seem to fit to this ideas. He shouldn`t use words like invincible, emnity and negativity and shouldn`t compare the intentions of a soccer team with the intentions of people wanting to learn TM. Also he shouldn`t say that it is "unfortunately" that Hitler hadn`t the right techniques, because Hitler was against people and killed them in gas chambers. And TM should be against noone, shouldn`t it!?!
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edenweaver
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Re: Helter skelter in Germany...

Postby edenweaver » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:43 pm

Hervé Love wrote:Well, I assume that most of the Lynch's community heard of that visit in Germany that turned into fiasco...

http://www.ecopolis.org/lynch-and-the-i ... e-germany/

What do you think of that ?


To say that it was a fiasco is putting it mildly. I work with David and the David Lynch Foundation and it's very unfortunate that the speaker was (in my opinion) so very poorly representing what the foundation is doing. But David handled it beautifully.
Last edited by edenweaver on Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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edenweaver
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Postby edenweaver » Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:52 pm

MichaelPW wrote:Also he shouldn`t say that it is "unfortunately" that Hitler hadn`t the right techniques, because Hitler was against people and killed them in gas chambers. And TM should be against noone, shouldn`t it!?!


Okay, so the speaker flubbed big time, there is no question about that. But to clarify, he was NOT saying that Hitler should have had the right techniques to follow through with his goals. He was NOT saying that Hitler's goals were praiseworthy. And no, TM is not against anyone. That was not his point. The point was that with TM the desire to harm others dissipates and it is a technique that can be used to transform society and strengthen differences without creating conflict amongst different groups of people.

Invincible has different meanings and interpretations and just because it has a certain connotation in Germany does not mean that the term is bad. It's just been sorely misused in the past. Of course, that is a major understatement. It didn't help that the guest speaker exercised terrible communication skills and did not explain what he meant by the word invincible.

If you are wanting a more in-depth understanding of the use of the word invincible and how it is interpreted in the application of TM there will be a 12 day series of video conferences hosted by (most) TM centers next week. The videos are presented by Dr. John Hagelin, President of the David Lynch Foundation. More information can be found at http://www.america.unifiedfieldconferences.org/. It does not list all the locations yet, but you can contact your local centers via this page to find out if it will be available near you.
Mr. Eddy
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Re:

Postby Mr. Eddy » Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:34 pm

edenweaver wrote:Invincible has different meanings and interpretations and just because it has a certain connotation in Germany does not mean that the term is bad. It's just been sorely misused in the past. Of course, that is a major understatement. It didn't help that the guest speaker exercised terrible communication skills and did not explain what he meant by the word invincible.

Sorry but you are completely wrong. First of all, he was talking in German so you cannot claim that German connotations would not apply.

Second, even in English the term "invincible" does not have several different meanings or interpretations. Both the Oxford dictionary and the Webster list only one single definition of the word: "too powerful to be defeated or overcome" (Oxford) / "incapable of being conquered, overcome, or subdued" (Webster). Using the adjective "invincible" always implies that there is some kind of danger or threat against you. If there is no threat then the word would be meaningless since it doesn't matter how powerful you are. Consequently the German audience asked exactly what I would have asked: Invincible against whom? Unlike the U.S., Germany is not at war with anyone currently so there is no threat or danger of being subdued. The Raja's response is: "Against alien/foreign influences." Since he was talking of an "invincible Germany" (and not of an "invincible spirit" or something like that), the only way to read his response is that Germany as a country is in danger of being overcome by foreign non-German influences. You can hear the audience gasping because they are at a loss for words at such a far-right nationalistic statement. To put it plainly, he effectively said: "Throw out all foreigners."

I hope this helps you understand why people were so enraged and why they had every right to be. Note that David Lynch had nothing to do with this, the fault fully lies with the Raja. For everyone's sake I hope that man is relieved of his duties and expelled from the TM community.

edenweaver wrote:And no, TM is not against anyone. That was not his point. The point was that with TM the desire to harm others dissipates and it is a technique that can be used to transform society and strengthen differences without creating conflict amongst different groups of people.

Then TM spokespeople should fully refrain from using the word "invincible" in the future. As I outlined above, "invincible" only has one valid dictionary definition that always implies a threat or opposition. If you aren't against anyone and there is no threat, then don't use words that imply otherwise. Also please note that talking about "transforming society" is going down a dangerous path as well. It suggests a global agenda to impose your own ideas and standards upon society as a whole. Why not transform individuals? Show them how to meditate and let them decide on their own free will whether they want to embrace it or not.
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Hervé Love
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Re: Helter skelter in Germany...

Postby Hervé Love » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:49 am

As you may know, the bosnian serb war crimes suspect Radovan Karadzic has been arrested yesterday in Belgrade. He was practising alternative medicine under false ID while living in the serbian capital. Precisely, according to ths French journalist specialized into Serbia, Karadzic was teaching "orthodox trenscendantal meditation" :
http://balkans.courriers.info/article10940.html

Can you believe it ?
MichaelPW
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Re: Helter skelter in Germany...

Postby MichaelPW » Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:35 pm

His false ID was Dragan Dabic. He said "My name is Dabic, but you can call me David."

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