Page 2 of 2

Re: what now?

Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:50 pm
by Carl
I see the woman holding the dress in front as LG, not Woman #1. As well, I can just not tell if that's a lens or the reflection of a phonograph record. (She is in color, though.)
Later, the girl who teaches Sue to 'see' is in b/w and the record is spinning and the surface hiss is present. This one appears to be probably also the girl' who does not know where I am' at the seance. That Smithy/Piotrek does not see her might indicate that he( at this moment, well before he comes to Cal and hides the pistol he has been given) or she, come to think, may be from the radio days, before video.
**I see the curse as compeling the actors in any version of the old gypsy tale's story to live out the lives of the characters in the story, to 'reflect' them.
I see The Phantom as wanting to get into this story and being allowed to in order to eliminate him. Seemingly, he wants to be eliminated. NOTE: The Phantom does not seem limited to any sex or role: he appears as The Man In the Green Coat, as we are told, and as Bad Sue. Wheher he is identical with the curse...dunno, open-minded.
Janek and the other old men seem a cabal that is attempting to lift the curse.
***My wife totally rejects the idea that The Phantom has made a previous appearance as the man behind Winkie's , 'the one who is causing it all', in MD. Then who the fuck is he? :lol:
****'Routes', more and more I speculate about routes, 'you can't get there from here', 'you can't get to Pomona from here' as it relates to the 'climax' of the film. At least we can see where the 'Locomotion' stuff might come from in that light. Also, Actions pull consequences like an engine pulls freight cars.

Re: what now?

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:18 pm
by applesnoranges
The phantom seems to be an idea of Lynch's which seems, at first, to have nothing to do with the story of Nikki but which he dealt with by letting him in and following. I once knew some poets who talked about "Flubadub" always wanting into the poem and it seemed harmful to pretend that he was not there because he just won't go away. In Blue Velvet, there is nice Jeffrey and Sandy sitting in the cozy cafe and something just gets into him. He has an idea and she tries to talk him out of it. But that idea just insists on getting into the story through Jeffrey. That idea in IE seems to be the phantom. We're going along, making the movie and having a good time, then suddenly there's Ormond with a screwdriver in her gut talking about how he hypnotized her. What could Lynch do with a great idea like that, ignore it? The phantom seems to be Flubadub, the realist in Lynch looking at his evolving story and wanting more.

Re: what now?

Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:29 pm
by Carl
Just so. I had just that interpretation in mind and can see the silly Mystery Man( crap acting in general in that film, alas) and the dirty Man Behind Winkie's as similar.
Tempting, it is, to identify The Phantom with 'freedom of action, irrationality' and the 'curse' with predestination, non-free agent behavior , compuslsion.
One thing we are told, more than once, about The Phantom is that he is a true escape artist, difficult to capture or pin down.
Have Janek and Co. deliberately 'let him in'? Is Smithy at the seance the 'horse to the well' in the sense that they have recruited him so as to be possessed by the jealous nature required to beat and abandon Sue, thus leaving her prey to Crimp( like so many men in Sue's life, e g Kiddo, an abuser of the weak) ? to leave behind the pistol that will kill The Phantom, releasing his light and Sue's blackness alike, ending he 'Curse'?
Sue sees the Marine's Sister as both heroine and monster: this caved wooden stick person kills first graders , but also fights back, kills a guard and escapes from the 'children's prison', to Sue's evident admiration and approval.
**Just what might the 'Curse' be? That one can not tell time ( before from after) and hence have difficulty in interpreting causality; that one is compelled( though perhaps not truly against one's will) to repeat destructive paterns of behavior; anything else?
So, is The Phantom, per se, the 'curse'? Or an added filip?
*** 'Click.'
This is when the quantum jump into possession or madness is accomplished, when Nikki falls under the 'curse' and is trapped into living out Sue's sad life. Kingsley hears it and tries to find it's source, insisting it's something in the Line, not a car outside. The flashbulb 'click's as Nikki ( in character, still, as Sue) enters through the AxxoNN doorway behind the soundstage?
Snap fingers, click off lamps, too many instances of 'click's to list.
Again, a bewildering profusion of 'clues' as to what is going on ( or connecting elements in IE); after awhile, it begins to seem that there are more clues than there is mystery and that we are being 'sent up.' 8).
I still feel there is a GUT somewhere and that, by trial and error, I will eventually light upon it.

Re: what now?

Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 1:20 pm
by applesnoranges
*** 'Click.'
This is when the quantum jump into possession or madness is accomplished, when Nikki falls under the 'curse' and is trapped into living out Sue's sad life. Kingsley hears it and tries to find it's source, insisting it's something in the Line, not a car outside. The flashbulb 'click's as Nikki ( in character, still, as Sue) enters through the AxxoNN doorway behind the soundstage?
Snap fingers, click off lamps, too many instances of 'click's to list.

This hasn't been talked about much but what I have read seems to agree that the flashes indicate transitions. I hadn't noticed that about Kingsley's "click" but that makes sense. I'd been ignoring it because it didn't make sense. Something about how nobody seems to pay attention to him and to continue to talk about cars going by. Isn't it right after that that Kingsley is sort of clicked out of the story? Maybe going through it and listing all the flashes and clicks would show what they have in common. A thought I had early on was that they were all reflections of the lightning behind the woman in blue out in the rain but I don't think so now. Now the lightning seems more to be another one of the clicks (a BIG click), then there is more lightning inside with Sue and then ... Helllloo-ooo!!!

Re: what now?

Posted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:00 am
by Buck's Student
I started the film yesterday, and had to stop halfway through. I'll finish it today...

So far, it's good, but a little confusing. :shock: :lol: The only things I don't get are: That rabbit show, the girl at the beginning, and the needle... Basically, the whole beginning.

Weird camera work too. It's not as dressed up, and it looks more like British TV.

Re: what now?

Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:55 pm
by Buck's Student
I still haven't finished it. I don't know why... It could become my favorite, but it's so... I hate to say it... Strange.