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Discussion of INLAND EMPIRE

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MichaelPW
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Postby MichaelPW » Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:17 am

She snaps her fingers and on the 4th snap and only that one, the street girls snap with her. How can that be? That would not happen in real life with no reason.


Already tried to do something with the amount of snaps altogether. So that would be 15. Could be the meaning of 6 (so we could have stage 6). Position 4 is the center when there are 7 positions. Dorothy Lamour translated in numbers could be 7, 6 (= counting back). The way to Pomona could be 3,50. The 4 could be hidden here between 3 and 5. But I`m afraid that these could be overinterpretations.

Yes, it wouldn`t probably happen in real life.

very clearly the Dern character hands it to her as she passes


That`s interesting! It could be a further hint that Doris and she are the same persons. Maybe we have a suicide here. The policeman sees that Doris hurted herself with the screwdriver. Dern looks to the scene with the 8 prostitutes seeing herself, while - maybe - Sue looks to Doris not knowing that Doris is herself. There could also be a problem with memorizing things when she suddenly begins to seem as having a good time.

At the moment of her death there is a scene cut and we see her expression has changed to a peaceful one. It could be at that moment that she begins seeing herself that way because it is in an afterlife state.


Will have to watch for these things the next time I watch IE.

What do you mean by: "In the land of death surrounded by Pomona (=47=harmony=neutralization?)?" What is "SaSaSa"?


She is dying there. And having her dying the womem left and right of her are talking about "the way to Pomona". I think Pomona is associated with 47 in reality, because if I`m informed right there was a professor who had a theory that 47 is more often found in reality than random would let expecting. And when 4 means control and 7 loosing control 47 could mean neutralization. At 47 we have Sue doing probably the right things leading to harmony. We see her "angelized" and freeing Lost Girl (who could be herself). I don`t know what the "SaSaSa" means on the right on the wall after the "Pomona"-scene.

And what does the K mean "information-man" gets?

What also is important I think is: That Nikki seems to look right into the eyes of Lost Girl before she enters the theater.
applesnoranges
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Postby applesnoranges » Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:23 am

I don't follow all the associations with 47 but there seem to be many. I think we could just go on forever finding meanings for it. The main thing it seems to be is Nastassja Kinsky's age at the time of the release in Jan. 2007. She seems to be the guest of honor at her own birthday party at the end.

Then, maybe once David Lynch thought of that, he noticed many other things, like the theory about 47 you mention (I think started at Pomona College) and all these associations just followed into the movie. It's fun to notice them, but they don't help me to know what happened. Someone on another forum just mentioned there is a 4 in back of Laura Dern when she appears in her 4th costume and a 7 in the 7th costume.

Someone posted pictures of Mr. K. and Stanley Kubrick which look very similar.

http://lynchempire.proboards101.com/ind ... 1191847068
MichaelPW
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Postby MichaelPW » Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:00 am

Think that that birthday was an "additionally coincidence". It would be interesting to see a strong association between the number 47 and the unfinished movie Queen Kelly, but I don`t have one in mind.

One could also try to combine fours and sevens with the running time of IE. Maybe that`s the curse - the numbers pulling the actors inside the movie.

Thank you for the link. The word "Kubrick" reminds me on a high geometrical cube. And the picture of Kubrick reminds me on Salman Rushdie ("SaSaSa").

Image
applesnoranges
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Postby applesnoranges » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:59 am

Maybe the "47" idea just all fell together at once, but I remember reading about IE for several years before it was done and the information always mentioned Nastassja Kinsky. So she must have had a bigger part in it which he changed his mind about. So I had the feeling that he dedicated the movie to her with this 47 just out of respect.

btw: She has a scene in More Things That Happened. She is a friend of Nikki's telling her a story of what happened to her. The story she tells is of meeting someone named Billy either in a bar or at a bar in someone's house, who seems to have hypnotized her and taken her to a hotel. She thought she had known him before but couldn't remember it. Then at the hotel everything was changed and she didn't recognize anything. She is blonde in this scene so she looks somewhat like Laura Dern as Nikki.

But on the numbers ... personally I don't want to count all the numbers but if you do that will be interesting. There is a trilogy of books called "Illuminatus!" by Robert Anton Wilson, a surreal combination of everything, and all the way through are shown examples of how every great disaster in history is accompanied by the number 23 somehow. The point is that you can take anything and make something like this out of it by noticing some things and ignoring others.

One more thing: If you have enough interest in counting numbers, I've always been curious about this. A little way into Lost Highway, Fred says something like, "I wonder who owns that damned dog!" And a little way into Mulholland Dr, Coco sees the dog mess and shouts, "Wilkins!" I've always wondered if they happen at the same time so if you played both movies at once, Fred would ask whose dog it was and Coco would answer.
MichaelPW
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Postby MichaelPW » Mon Jan 28, 2008 11:08 am

She is a friend of Nikki's telling her a story of what happened to her.


Maybe this friend of Nikki is Nikki, too. In the hotel it could be that Nikki infected herself with the soul-collector. The woman in the hotel seems to be Lost Girl. Also Doris says the same things, who is Nikki probably, too. It seems that the phantom uses hypnotization to get in.

Think that it would be interesting what happens on running times like 4.00, 7.00, 47.00, 94.00, 141.00, 47.47, 52.00, 13.00 and such. Maybe I will try to look for such things next time.

That would be a nice connection of the movies :-).
applesnoranges
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Postby applesnoranges » Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:56 pm

The scene looked to me like something he had an idea for and then changed his mind. Kinsky would have been someone similar with a similar story.

She is that already just in this scene because she repeats the hotel room scene at the beginning. We saw that scene played by "woman #1" and then we saw that it had been played by Lost Girl. The difference in the case of the Kinsky character is that she lived to tell about it and was not seriously damaged. She's telling the story with a very spooky voice, like she is somewhat shaken by having had a close call with something very dangerous. So, I guess the point is that "the longest running radio show" is played out differently in different people's lives.

Your idea for looking at stops with 4 and 7 in the numbers might become an art work of your own. You could make screen shots of them and let them tell whatever story comes of it.
MichaelPW
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Postby MichaelPW » Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:25 pm

In TP we have a phantom that suddenly disappears from the policestation, too.

And in Leo`s house there`s a clown-face as is in IE. I don`t have an idea what this face means.

Maybe 4 stands for fear. Kingsley says that 4 7 is in german vier sieben. Perhaps that's a hint. We have the word fear in the beginning. Maybe 7 stands for heaven. In heaven it`s sweet. We have the word sweet in the end. Maybe 4 7 is the way from fear to heaven.
applesnoranges
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Postby applesnoranges » Tue Feb 05, 2008 6:00 pm

MichaelPW wrote:In TP we have a phantom that suddenly disappears from the policestation, too.

Who disappears in TP? You mean when Bob leaves Leland?
And in Leo`s house there`s a clown-face as is in IE. I don`t have an idea what this face means.

On the inlandempirecinema.com board was someone named cinemalover (who is still active at davidlynch.com) who is a friend of David Lynch. They had the same TM teacher. She said that he often spoke of "the smiling clown face of negativity". Just passing it on.
Maybe 4 stands for fear. Kingsley says that 4 7 is in german vier sieben. Perhaps that's a hint. We have the word fear in the beginning. Maybe 7 stands for heaven. In heaven it`s sweet. We have the word sweet in the end. Maybe 4 7 is the way from fear to heaven.

I'm still having a hard time with that one. "Vier" and "fear" do sound very similar, but there just isn't anything in English that sounds like "sieben". It would be a strange title for a movie. Again, my bet is it just started with the birthday.
MichaelPW
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Postby MichaelPW » Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:17 am

You mean when Bob leaves Leland?


Yes. It is like a phenomenon human beings can`t handle. Such things are crossing the borders.

She said that he often spoke of "the smiling clown face of negativity".


Thanks for this information. I thought about it again in the meantime and viewed it as a mask. One could ask what really goes on beyond this mask. We see this clown face in IE and then - maybe - we can see behind this mask. So there is no happiness that a smiling face would suggest, but fear.

I've watched a little bit for the running time. On 7.00 - 8.00 we have the "wanting-in"-scene. When I think about it I always ask myself who could be the higher instance above the phantom?! Maybe this Janek can show the husband of Nicki where the phantom could be, because he knows where he wanted to be in. But he isn`t there anymore. Obviously the husband was working for the phantom. So all his might could be an illusion. In fact he can`t buy pleasant beer. Janek can make him see what Lost Girl (his wife?) can see. He maybe didn`t know that his way with animals was an illusion. Obviously Janek isn`t convinced about the "weapon-solution". But the rabbits seem to be convinced about that solution. For them it seems that it is highest time. Maybe the husband is the horse. On 34.00 wee have "Who hypnotized you?". And on 43.00 we have Bucky Jay :-).
MichaelPW
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Postby MichaelPW » Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:56 am

Perhaps also interesting:
4.00: "blue" rabbit (4)
4.57: "What time is it?" (47)
33.01: moon (7)
1.33.00: end of the world (7)
1.39.00: dead "husband" (4)
2.01.01: "It was the man in the green coat" (4)

Maybe the secret of the blue rabbit is the knowledge of where the access is? The phantom seeks an access. Maybe the access is behind Janek?
applesnoranges
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Postby applesnoranges » Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:44 am

MichaelPW wrote:
I've watched a little bit for the running time. On 7.00 - 8.00 we have the "wanting-in"-scene. When I think about it I always ask myself who could be the higher instance above the phantom?! Maybe this Janek can show the husband of Nicki where the phantom could be, because he knows where he wanted to be in. But he isn`t there anymore. Obviously the husband was working for the phantom.

I have read people say that but I can't imagine why. In the monolog she says that he went off to work in the circus. Then she says "They had this guy working there ..." etc. Nowhere is there any suggestion that anyone worked for the phantom; he was just working there.

I think the most important key that unlocked some of what is happening for me is realizing who Piotrek works for. I've gone over this before, but briefly again, I think that Peter Lucas works for Marek Zydowicz in Poland and his character, Piotrek Król, works for Zydowicz' character, Gordy.
So all his might could be an illusion. In fact he can`t buy pleasant beer.

I'm not sure where you are going with that, but I was just thinking and wondering what that was about. Partly, of course, he is complaining about not paying a little more for better beer. But also, American beer has always had a reputation for being an inferior, commercially produced product. (Although in recent times many micro breweries have made fine beers; I'm just stating the stereotype.) I guess I noticed that it might be the kind of complaint a European would have if he couldn't get what he could get back home.
Janek can make him see what Lost Girl (his wife?) can see. He maybe didn`t know that his way with animals was an illusion. Obviously Janek isn`t convinced about the "weapon-solution". But the rabbits seem to be convinced about that solution. For them it seems that it is highest time. Maybe the husband is the horse.

I have the impression that Janek has his kind of knowledge and the rabbits have theirs. He's willing to go along with their solution because he has none of his own (the shed was empty). His solution was to turn the matter over to the rabbits. Piotrek is seen with a horse in one of the short Poland scenes, so I've also thought he might be the horse in the expression, "The horse to the well." (The well would be the séance.)
On 34.00 wee have "Who hypnotized you?". And on 43.00 we have Bucky Jay :-).

Hmmm.... I wonder when Coco calls "Wilkins!".... :)
applesnoranges
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Postby applesnoranges » Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:46 am

MichaelPW wrote:Perhaps also interesting:

I can't see what you are saying about any of this. :roll:
MichaelPW
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Postby MichaelPW » Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:00 pm

applesnoranges wrote:I have read people say that but I can't imagine why.


In the séance Lost Girl says that she has to tell all that there is someone. In a séance I think people look for supernatural phenomena. Who could be that someone? It could be the phantom - difficult to find, but a séance could be a mean to search and see him. So "Peter Lucas" could get the information here for whom he works. That could be his understanding. Also one aspect of the demon-like phantom scene is like showing the people what to do. A séance could make clear for whom the circus-people really work. Maybe "the horse to the well" means: "Peter Lucas" normally should bring the horse to the well in the circus. But he hadn`t done that. The man "in" the shed says something like: "You did nothing here." Maybe he hadn`t done it, because he didn`t know for whom he was working, because the power of the phantom was so huge that he thought he was working for someone else. So the information "I "worked" for the phantom" could mean: "In the future I won`t work for the phantom anymore. The phantom blinded me in the past. In the future I will work for someone else and I will bring the horse to the well." One of the "rabbits" could anticipate that. BTW - yes one of the "rabbits" say "It was... red." Know that from watching IE with German subtitles.

Sorry I think I knew who Gordy is. But at the moment I don`t know. Who was he?

It`s interesting that there apparently are mirrors in the "after-the-Marylin-scene". Maybe evil is born here. I think it is said here that the husband of Nicki is the mightiest man of the city. But this scene seems to be a dream, too, as we have Devon very abstracted after the "It sounds like a dialouge from our script"-scene. As if he would hear it the first time - the danger that comes from Nicki`s husband. But in reality - it seems - that he hasn`t such a might. His wife wouldn`t need to safe some money (in the case that we have reality here).

applesnoranges wrote:I have the impression that Janek has his kind of knowledge and the rabbits have theirs.


Yes, I have this impression as well!

applesnoranges wrote:He's willing to go along with their solution because he has none of his own (the shed was empty). His solution was to turn the matter over to the rabbits.


Ok, there wasn`t the phantom anymore. But that could be a solution. It could be the solution: "The one you are working for isn`t there. He won`t pay you." But he seems not to understand. The phantom continues to blind him. He would like to follow the phantom into Inland Empire. So Janek could see this and decide that it is time for the next step.

The "problem" with the running time is that mostly the association depends on seconds. But - at the moment - I believe in:

- 4.00: "blue" rabbit and
- 7.00: Janek
applesnoranges
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Postby applesnoranges » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:14 am

MichaelPW wrote:In the séance Lost Girl says that she has to tell all that there is someone. In a séance I think people look for supernatural phenomena. ...... Know that from watching IE with German subtitles.

Sorry I think I knew who Gordy is. But at the moment I don`t know. Who was he?

Yes, the English subtitles also say "It was red." I think I should start over again about what I think is going on here: Gordy is the man who shows up at the backyard picnic in California and greets Piotrek. Nobody else does because he is the boss of the traveling show. Then we see him again in the shed when the phantom disappeared, and he "talks down" to Piotrek, like a boss who is getting impatient with an employee who doesn't understand anything. So that much seems clear to me: Gordy is Piotrek's boss, the one he works for. No one in the movie ever said that anyone worked for the phantom. In the monologue he is just "They had this guy working there ... Marine from North Carolina", etc. So I still don't see where the speculation comes from about anyone really working for the phantom. I don't see the advantage of assuming that.

It`s interesting that there apparently are mirrors in the "after-the-Marylin-scene". Maybe evil is born here.

Now that you mention it, yes it seems so.
I think it is said here that the husband of Nicki is the mightiest man of the city. But this scene seems to be a dream, too, as we have Devon very abstracted after the "It sounds like a dialouge from our script"-scene. As if he would hear it the first time - the danger that comes from Nicki`s husband.

Again, good point. From the beginning of when the visitor showed her the scene of getting the part, we seem to be watching a very dreamlike story that is told to her by Visitor #1. All that with Kingsley and Freddy and Marilyn and her frightening husband upstairs. Then suddenly we seem to be seeing a different Devon there on the set in his Billy suit. Yes, I see that but I can't think of anything that makes sense to say about it yet. It is right after that when she (as Sue I think) notices the cameras and is frightened to discover that she is a character in someone else's movie. Hmmm.
But in reality - it seems - that he hasn`t such a might. His wife wouldn`t need to safe some money (in the case that we have reality here).

I guess that is the way of seeing it that Sue is real. Well her husband is not powerful but he can be mean and brutal.

There is another wonderful long scene of Sue and her husband arguing over where his shoes are in MTTH. In that scene the various parts of his personality are all present. He's kind of foolish and at the same time very paranoid and she makes fun of him for it. Its basically a portrait of two unhappy people trapped in a marriage they would be happier to get out of.
applesnoranges wrote:He's willing to go along with their solution because he has none of his own (the shed was empty). His solution was to turn the matter over to the rabbits.

Ok, there wasn`t the phantom anymore. But that could be a solution. It could be the solution: "The one you are working for isn`t there. He won`t pay you." But he seems not to understand. The phantom continues to blind him. He would like to follow the phantom into Inland Empire. So Janek could see this and decide that it is time for the next step.

Once again, I don't see how it helps anything to imagine the phantom as anyone's boss. Nothing seems solved here; Piotrek seems panic stricken.

But another thing I keep wondering is how did Piotrek and Janek join up? When they see the phantom is gone, Janek takes him to the séance where he is given the gun and sent into the story of Sue to hide the gun so Sue could see it and kill the phantom so that he could be with Lost Girl. I see that solidly enough I think. But whose idea was it for Janek and Piotrek to work together? At the beginning Janek tries to keep the phantom out of the story but he gets in anyway and Janek has to throw him out again. So maybe it is Janek who finds Piotrek to carry this out because Piotrek is already in the story?

btw: another detail I'll pass on from another board about Gordy's red cup and the rooster we see. There is a restaurant/nightclub etc. in Lodz where this was filmed called "Roosters". It has a web site so you can find it. All the decorations are red in there. Maybe Lynch and Zydowics and Lucas had all gone there the day before the shoot. I wonder if that red cup came from there.

The "problem" with the running time is that mostly the association depends on seconds. But - at the moment - I believe in:

- 4.00: "blue" rabbit and
- 7.00: Janek


My player seems to have different numbers than other people's. Maybe because it is older? I don't think much will come of these running times. It would be too much work for too little gain for Lynch to have paid attention to doing that.

btw: I did check the times on Lost Highway and Mulholland Dr to see if Fred asks whose dog it is at the same time Coco says, "Wilkins!" ... and he doesn't . Well, onward.
MichaelPW
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Postby MichaelPW » Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:44 pm

applesnoranges wrote:Gordy is the man who shows up at the backyard picnic in California and greets Piotrek. Nobody else does because he is the boss of the traveling show. Then we see him again in the shed when the phantom disappeared, and he "talks down" to Piotrek, like a boss who is getting impatient with an employee who doesn't understand anything.


Oh, the great "three-o-clock"-scene. Ok, now I know who Gordy is. I didn`t know that he and the person in the shed are the same person. First one is one of the strangest ones. Are you sure that it is in California? Couldn`t it be in Poland? Maybe the word I'm seeking is somehow like "subconsciousness"-scene. Somehow this whole scene is like "viewing it from a perspective of a baby". We have toys in the background. We have spilling. We have "Come here...and get some hotdogs" - isn`t an adult speech, is it? We have a problem with going to the toilet. There`s an infantile quarrel about the hammer (not screwdriver). One brought along his toy: the rope. There`s this strangely artificially beginning of the two female ones for getting food. And we have three-o-clock (when we regard midnight as end of life - three-o-clock is relatively early in the life span). Also the boss brought along his toy: his cap. Maybe he is just playing boss. On the other side we have very serious "adult" themes. Like that there`s something not ok with three-o-clock. The rope could be regarded as intestines out of the body. The hammer could be used as a murder-weapon. But maybe we are at the beginning of life. "An adult mean" is maybe a screwdriver or a gun. The cap could represent dictatorship. And the music is just like "here we are in subconsiousness-areas".

In the monologue he is just "They had this guy working there ... Marine from North Carolina", etc. So I still don't see where the speculation comes from about anyone really working for the phantom. I don't see the advantage of assuming that.


I know that the monologue is in this way. Working here I think is meant as how the formal relationships are. But one aspect of working is following. And the people in the circus seem to follow the phantom. Maybe only Gordy is left. Maybe all other ones followed the phantom. btw - Guess that we assume that the phantom is meant with "he". I don`t know how it is with others, but my speculation comes from - as I tried to explain - Lost Girl. She says: "I have to tell you all there is someone." And it seems that it is a problem that there is someone. So who is that someone causing problems? One maybe could argue that she means "Piotrek" and that the problem is that she doesn`t know him. But I don`t believe in this so far. The advantage maybe is: If "Piotrek" follows a phantom he won`t be paid and if he won`t be paid he can`t pay the costs of a family. "I can`t father children" maybe is not meant in the infertility-sense, but in the supporting-sense.

Now that you mention it, yes it seems so.


So maybe Devon is the little boy and Nikki is the little girl. But who knows the way to the palace? "Blue" rabbit (4.00; K)? Janek (7.00)?

From the beginning of when the visitor showed her the scene of getting the part, we seem to be watching a very dreamlike story that is told to her by Visitor #1.


It`s interesting that Nikki says that there is no murder in the movie. When we think about the death scene and the words from Kingsley to Nikki ("Nikki, you were wonderful") I think we can assume that there is a murder in the movie. But the talk from Nikki to Visitor 1 seems to be superficial ("I think I know where you live"). Visitor 1 ignores that she should go - she crosses a border. It`s interesting how she looks to the other side when the butler offers milk and sugar as if she would be disgusted and then says something like: "Yes, the coffee is very good."

There is another wonderful long scene of Sue and her husband arguing over where his shoes are in MTTH.


Again - I would like to see.

Nothing seems solved here; Piotrek seems panic stricken.


Janek seems as knowing what he does. He seems that he knowed it before that there is no phantom anymore. But "Piotrek" seems to much involved. The offered solution isn`t enough for him.

But another thing I keep wondering is how did Piotrek and Janek join up? When they see the phantom is gone, Janek takes him to the séance where he is given the gun and sent into the story of Sue to hide the gun so Sue could see it and kill the phantom so that he could be with Lost Girl. I see that solidly enough I think. But whose idea was it for Janek and Piotrek to work together? At the beginning Janek tries to keep the phantom out of the story but he gets in anyway and Janek has to throw him out again. So maybe it is Janek who finds Piotrek to carry this out because Piotrek is already in the story?


To me it seems that we have two helpers in IE. One introduced at 4.00 (with applause) and one introduced at 7.00 (with slow appearing). "Blue" rabbit helps Nikki. And Janek helps "Piotrek". But - maybe - "blue" rabbit is also Janek. And - maybe - the secret of the "blue" rabbit is the way to the palace.

In the first line I think we have the following solution at the séance: the understanding of "Piotrek" of whom he followed. I think that is the solution Janek intended with bringing "Piotrek" to the séance. One "rabbit" seems to think "The right solution in this case would be to kill the phantom". Janek seems that he thinks that this wouldn`t be a good solution.

The gun seems not to be an appropriate solution. It seems that "Piotrek" doesn`t use it, but lays it down into the drawer. He doesn`t do what one of the "rabbits" assume a good solution. It seems that the screwdriver is the right solution.

I don`t think that Janek tries to keep out the phantom out of the story. It seems that Janek has the might to decide, whethter the phantom gets access or not.

btw: another detail I'll pass on from another board about Gordy's red cup and the rooster we see. There is a restaurant/nightclub etc. in Lodz where this was filmed called "Roosters". It has a web site so you can find it. All the decorations are red in there.


Thank you for this interesting information.

I think 4.00 and 7.00 are intended. We have so much to do with 4 and 7s in IE that David Lynch maybe has thought during he arranged the scenes "Something special has to occur at these times.".

Well, dogs like to move... :)

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