Is there a murder in your film?

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applesnoranges
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Is there a murder in your film?

Postby applesnoranges » Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:56 pm

I am starting to think about the story in terms of a struggle between Visitor #1 and Nikki. They don't agree about the murder. In fact they don't agree about what the film will be like at all. Then the Visitor hypnotizes her and points her finger to show her a different Nikki getting the part.

What happens finally is that she starts snapping her fingers and getting the street girls to snap with her. That is, she starts to control what is happening in her "dream" or "trance" or whatever this whole thing has been. I read that snapping fingers is an old way to wake someone up from a hypnotic trance.

But who is Visitor #1? We saw Mr. Rabbit witness the phantom trying to get into the story and Janek not helping him. Then Mr. Rabbit fades and next thing we see is Visitor #1, just like Lost Girl saw on TV.

So it would be easy to say it is one of the rabbits' attempts to solve Lost Girl's problem. But then, there is no explanation for how Visitor #2 gets there. The name seems to suggest that they are just visitors placed there by David Lynch to help the story along, but #1 is the one Lost Girl saw.
MichaelPW
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Postby MichaelPW » Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:15 am

applesnoranges wrote:I am starting to think about the story in terms of a struggle between Visitor #1 and Nikki.


Think now that she is probably Nikki, because if she would be another person I guess she would be in the list of actors at the end. And I don`t have an idea who she might be. Interestingly there is someone called Nico. She will be the one with the ape, won`t she? (Think that there is no Uri in the list, maybe it means something like "Good Day" or so.)

The problem with regarding it as struggle is that we have Visitor 1 again at the end. It is as if Nikki remembers Visitor 1 I think. It is as if Nikki understands then that Visitor 1 was right I guess and as if she had learned something from Visitor 1. What could this learning be? Maybe the belief in magic.

They don't agree about the murder. In fact they don't agree about what the film will be like at all.


Yes, maybe Nikki already read the script, maybe Nikki let Visitor 1 know what stands in the script. The visitor also asks if the movie will be about marriage. Nikki says that it is in a certain sense. This could mean that in the script of OHIBT there is the affair between Billy and Sue. The visitor also asks if Nikki`s husband is involved. Nikki says "No" (and I don`t know in the moment if Visitor 1 says "I think you are wrong about that" at this point). But what thinks the husband of Nikki? Probably he thinks that Devon means what he`s not saying. Maybe he saw the Marylin interview. And after the Marylin interview it seems that Nikki is thinking - thinking about Devon - thinking about how professional it will be.

Then the Visitor hypnotizes her and points her finger to show her a different Nikki getting the part.


I think it has something to do with magic. We have this deep "gong" musically here reminding on the TP episode in which we have such a deep "gong" when the grandson of the neighbour of Mr. Smith ( :) ) practices magic. Ok, one could regard hypnosis as a kind of magic, but basically I think this could be different things. But probably there are relations between these two things - maybe. Somehow Visitor 1 is also Lost Girl/Nikki in a certain sense. I think there is a relation between what Visitor 1 says about 9.45 and how Lost Girl sees "Piotrek" on the street saying that it is 9.45. Lost Girls seems as if it is after midnight (=after life=too late). But 9.45 could mean that there is still some hope (=not too late).

What happens finally is that she starts snapping her fingers and getting the street girls to snap with her. That is, she starts to control what is happening in her "dream" or "trance" or whatever this whole thing has been. I read that snapping fingers is an old way to wake someone up from a hypnotic trance.


And the consequence of this waking up could be end of life. Bleeding the phantom out. Maybe Nikki realizes that after she realized that "shooting the phantom" means "it was already done when you died". But Nikki "falls" into 4 7. And it seems that it is ok for her what happened.

But then, there is no explanation for how Visitor #2 gets there.


Visitor 1 and Visitior 2 also talk about an unpaid bill. To me Visitor 2 look like someone who let the phantom hold her hand for two seconds, although I don`t know the scene in MTTH visually. There is a very short head move pointing to the one who she means with "Do you know the man who lives here" and it seems that she means the man next door. Thens she asks something like "Do you know the man who lives next door". I think then she says that his name is Crimp. So from Nikki`s point of view this whole sequence could mean: "Normally I would think that I know my husband, but in truth he`s a phantom." ("..revealed something..".."always been there".."wanted something from me")
applesnoranges
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Postby applesnoranges » Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:57 am

Mostly I think I should try to clarify this idea. Suppose Lost Girl is the soul of someone who has died but cannot reincarnate because there is something unresolved about her life. (She tried to kill Mr. K. who is an avatar, a Divine Being of some sort.) And that soul wants to be born and is in the form of an embryo. That embryo is the Dern character Visitor #1 speaks to.

We are not told who or what Visitor #1 is, so I describe her variously as a guardian angel or the greater soul which contains the lives of Lost Girl and the new life about to be born (and perhaps "many others"). Just a way of thinking about it but she seems to know the story and she knows that Dern is the soul who wants to be born, so she tells her that she doesn't remember her unpaid debt (the attempted murder of Mr. K.). And then she tells her what might happen in her "new role". She points to the couch and shows her the new person she might become, who we next learn is Nikki Grace.

So what this approach to the movie says is throughout the rest of the time, we see a conflict between what Nikki wants to have happen and what V1 is telling her did happen and will likely happen again unless she advances to a new level of consciousness, becomes "behind her words", becomes "responsible", etc.

At the end, when she returns to the palace and is sitting happily with Visitor #1 again, she has learned her lesson. She has treated Mr. K. with respect and in turn he has listened and accepted her with all her pain.

It does not account for many things, such as Janek vs the Phantom, but I wonder if it is a structure which could grow to include all the rest.

So, to you:
MichaelPW wrote:Think now that she is probably Nikki, because if she would be another person I guess she would be in the list of actors at the end. And I don`t have an idea who she might be.

I think the way it usually works is that actors are credited for the role of the first character seen. However, Dern and Theroux are credited for both of their characters. I think "Visitor #1" is all she is: someone who comes to visit her "new neighbors" after their deaths.
Interestingly there is someone called Nico. She will be the one with the ape, won`t she? (Think that there is no Uri in the list, maybe it means something like "Good Day" or so.)

There is another whole way of looking at it which some people say is the only true way. That is that Sue is a real person who dies on the street and then incorporates the last things she hears into a vision of denial in which she imagines that none of it happened and that she was really an actress named Nikki (when she heard "Nico"). I listened again, and I think Piotrek says, "Gordy". It is just that he is saying an English name with a Polish accent.
It is as if Nikki understands then that Visitor 1 was right I guess and as if she had learned something from Visitor 1. What could this learning be? Maybe the belief in magic.

That makes sense to me. That is what I don't like the "Sue is real" theories. They are depressing and hopeless because there is no magic. People who hold those ideas discard the magic as part of her denial.
Yes, maybe Nikki already read the script, maybe Nikki let Visitor 1 know what stands in the script. The visitor also asks if the movie will be about marriage. Nikki says that it is in a certain sense. This could mean that in the script of OHIBT there is the affair between Billy and Sue. The visitor also asks if Nikki`s husband is involved. Nikki says "No" (and I don`t know in the moment if Visitor 1 says "I think you are wrong about that" at this point).

Again, it could just be a conflict about what each thinks the new role will be like.
But what thinks the husband of Nikki? Probably he thinks that Devon means what he`s not saying. Maybe he saw the Marylin interview. And after the Marylin interview it seems that Nikki is thinking - thinking about Devon - thinking about how professional it will be.

I hadn't noticed that but yes. When Devon is being smart ass there is a shot of Nikki looking very uncomfortable, kind of licking her lips. Her husband must have though, "Aha!"
I think it has something to do with magic. We have this deep "gong" musically here reminding on the TP episode in which we have such a deep "gong" when the grandson of the neighbour of Mr. Smith ( :) ) practices magic. Ok, one could regard hypnosis as a kind of magic, but basically I think this could be different things. But probably there are relations between these two things - maybe.

I used the word hypnosis because it is in the movie. I don't actually know what hypnosis is but yes, probably magic.
Somehow Visitor 1 is also Lost Girl/Nikki in a certain sense. I think there is a relation between what Visitor 1 says about 9.45 and how Lost Girl sees "Piotrek" on the street saying that it is 9.45. Lost Girls seems as if it is after midnight (=after life=too late). But 9.45 could mean that there is still some hope (=not too late).

Again, that points to the difference in point of view. V1 jokes about thinking it is after midnight if it is really 9:45. Of course she thinks she is right and it is definitely too late for hope this time around.
And the consequence of this waking up could be end of life. Bleeding the phantom out. Maybe Nikki realizes that after she realized that "shooting the phantom" means "it was already done when you died". But Nikki "falls" into 4 7. And it seems that it is ok for her what happened.

It seems to mean to me that she realizes who she is. We see the two Dern characters on the street and one of them makes fun of the other (of Lost Girl: "I'm afraid!"), etc. because she is no longer afraid. She sees that it is all a movie. If you watch the murder scene frame by frame, you see that Ormand does not surprise her and take the screwdriver away, Dern definitely goes limp and hands it to her. She allows herself to be killed; it reminds me of Obi Wan Kenobi allowing himself to be killed so that he will become more powerful than ever.
Visitor 1 and Visitior 2 also talk about an unpaid bill. To me Visitor 2 look like someone who let the phantom hold her hand for two seconds, although I don`t know the scene in MTTH visually.

We can't help noticing that but I'm not sure what it means. She seems like someone else who knows the story; one of the many who tried to solve it but never quite did, but she is there trying to help Sue solve it.
There is a very short head move pointing to the one who she means with "Do you know the man who lives here" and it seems that she means the man next door. Thens she asks something like "Do you know the man who lives next door". I think then she says that his name is Crimp. So from Nikki`s point of view this whole sequence could mean: "Normally I would think that I know my husband, but in truth he`s a phantom." ("..revealed something..".."always been there".."wanted something from me")

I didn't notice that either but yes, there it is. Could be. She says, "Do you know him?" very, very spooky. It doesn't sound as if she is talking about any of the Peter Lucas characters but someone frightening. Hmmm.

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