RANDOM THOUGHTS II -- CIGARETTE BURNS

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TheMysteryMan
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RANDOM THOUGHTS II -- CIGARETTE BURNS

Postby TheMysteryMan » Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:39 am

In the séance scene, I think it is interesting that you can see a painting when Piotrek leaves of a woman's hand holding a red candle. This image repeats in the Rabbit room, when the standing Female Rabbit is holding two candles. I believe this also occurs when there is the hole in the top right of the frame to suggest the burning hole in the silk Nikki/Sue is peering through. What I think is remarkable about that is the placement of the smoldering holewhy in the top right of the screen? If you've seen FIGHT CLUB or gotten to a theater early enough to catch the trivia questions, you know that in theaters there's a mark in the top right of the screen when a reel is changed. This is called a "cigarette burn."It's ironic that we see this in a movie that has been shot on DV and transferred to film, but no less intriguing. It is a subtle way to reinforce the movie motif begun with Nikki being an actress. Something I reached for back when I entertained a "multiple personality"theory is that there was a book written by a woman who suffered from it called WHEN RABBIT HOWLS. But that seems more coincidental than anything since technically the Rabbits existed before IE. Also, in my last viewing, it seemed interesting that the film begins with a pinhole of white in the top corner before the title reveal. A friend of mine said he heard a projection reel going but I forgot to listen for that.


Ryan
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MichaelPW
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Postby MichaelPW » Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:51 pm

TheMysteryMan wrote:This is called a "cigarette burn."


Thank you for this information. So this could mean that when a cigarette and a silk are used the rabbits will know about that...
applesnoranges
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Postby applesnoranges » Fri Feb 29, 2008 7:48 pm

That makes sense. I have read this about the film marker before but didn't know what to make of it. But we can imagine DL making the movie Rabbits first, with that "cigarette burn" in it, then expanding it into the rest of IE. In a way, IE could be seen as an expanded and illustrated version of the first episode of Rabbits. It's a good thing he didn't do that to all 9 episodes or however many there are; one is enough! :D
MichaelPW
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Postby MichaelPW » Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:44 pm

applesnoranges wrote:In a way, IE could be seen as an expanded and illustrated version of the first episode of Rabbits.


Do you know the content of that first episode? Is there a certain plot? I saw a short movie on youtube with a person (David Lynch?) wearing a mask (don`t know anymore whether it was a rabbit-mask) and doing movements with hands. There also was a burning on the upper right.
TheMysteryMan
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RE

Postby TheMysteryMan » Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:33 am

I'm not sure...does it seem like the Rabbits are there to observe or facilitate? Their dialogue is so abstract (I knew right away this was going to be a great film just by how bizarre that whole exchange was). What do they represent? At the seance, the three men turn into the Rabbits, which blurs the issue a bit. The men are obviously helping the husband, giving him the gun. But is that before or after the fact that the Rabbit connection comes? Do they give the gun and then we see the Rabbits to imply that they are watching all of this, or that they manufactured it? It's debatable whether they really are the rabbits...I lean against that just for the simple fact that two of the Rabbits are women.

Strangely, my friend and I were the only ones in the theater who seemed to think the laugh track was funny.

Ryan
applesnoranges
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Postby applesnoranges » Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:18 pm

All I am saying here is that the movie, Rabbits, was made first, then parts of it were split up and put into IE. As I remember, at least most of what we see if not all is taken from the first episode. There are more episodes of Rabbits which are similar but are different with different lines etc. In Rabbits, everything they say is incomprehensible, as if it is a TV show by and for rabbits which humans can't really understand. Then, in IE, the lines that were already there take on meanings because of the context.

The men at the séance and the rabbits seem to be the same beings to me, regardless of gender. Jack Rabbit does out into IE several times, mostly to gather information. Hmmm! That reminds me of Kingsley saying that Freddy has been out and about gathering information!

On the iec.com board, cinemalover, who is a friend of Lynch, said that Lynch said that the question, "What time is it?", is really a funny question when you stop to think about it. It's funnier in English because it it is a crazy thing to say. What time is what? Ways of asking this in French or German are more direct and to the point. I think in both, the questioner asks what hour it is, which is a real question. But in English we grow up saying that without ever noticing that it doesn't mean anything.
MichaelPW
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Postby MichaelPW » Wed Mar 05, 2008 12:37 pm

TheMysteryMan wrote:I lean against that just for the simple fact that two of the Rabbits are women.


During the last times I watched IE I asked myself if I know the female voice of the rabbit behind the couch somewhere from in IE. But I didn`t come to a conclusion. Think that the rabbits easily can be different persons. They seem to be "someone" "archetypical" in "holy" room 4 7.

The man upstairs at the beginning seems to be Piotrek Krol. Sneaking in Nikki`s house. We could ask why he wouldn`t do that when Nikki isn`t at home when he has to do something there. The answer probably is that Nikki at this time is always at home. When we see him with the older persons he seems to be Piotrek Grace or at least Mr. Grace. But why are the older persons named Zydowics and not Graces? And why does Mr. Grace think that Nikki does now Polish??

Janek seems to be against the gun-solution. Doing something for the phantom maybe at that moment.
TheMysteryMan
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Rabbits

Postby TheMysteryMan » Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:30 am

All I am saying here is that the movie, Rabbits, was made first, then parts of it were split up and put into IE. As I remember, at least most of what we see if not all is taken from the first episode. There are more episodes of Rabbits which are similar but are different with different lines etc. In Rabbits, everything they say is incomprehensible, as if it is a TV show by and for rabbits which humans can't really understand. Then, in IE, the lines that were already there take on meanings because of the context.

The men at the séance and the rabbits seem to be the same beings to me, regardless of gender. Jack Rabbit does out into IE several times, mostly to gather information. Hmmm! That reminds me of Kingsley saying that Freddy has been out and about gathering information!

On the iec.com board, cinemalover, who is a friend of Lynch, said that Lynch said that the question, "What time is it?", is really a funny question when you stop to think about it. It's funnier in English because it it is a crazy thing to say. What time is what? Ways of asking this in French or German are more direct and to the point. I think in both, the questioner asks what hour it is, which is a real question. But in English we grow up saying that without ever noticing that it doesn't mean anything.


That's crazy how something that could be nonsensical humor in one format becomes provocative and eerie in another context. Ha, that's a good parallel between Freddy and Jack Rabbit, as Freddy is also the one who makes the remark about dogs getting themselves out of tricky situations. That's a line that had me and my friend laughing in the theater and an eye-opener later on when it was pointed out that it could actually refer to Laura Dern and the Lost Girl getting themselves out of their own nightmare. Times must be hard in Rabbit Land, though, if Freddy has to hustle everyone for extra money with the same hard luck story.

Someone in high school used to ask me what time it was every day because we went to lunch in that class. Used to drive me insane because I thought clock-watching was the best way to guarantee time would drag. Wish I'd been able to throw that at him: "What time is what?"It is a strange way to ask about itwonder why I didn't notice that in the previous 30 years.
MichaelPW
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Postby MichaelPW » Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:12 pm

applesnoranges wrote:On the iec.com board, cinemalover, who is a friend of Lynch, said that Lynch said that the question, "What time is it?", is really a funny question when you stop to think about it.


Read that before and when I did I thought David Lynch meant this in the "context" in which the rabbits talk about. But maybe he meant it within "What time is it?".
applesnoranges
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Postby applesnoranges » Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:58 am

The way she said it, it sounded like he just meant it was always a funny thing to say. I never noticed it either. We say a lot of strange things in English but they don't seem strange because we grow up hearing them. There would be no way of subtitling how strange it sounds when you notice it in Spanish or French or German (the three I know about), because it would make no sense. Something like, Was Zeit ist es? But the funny thing is how normal it sounds, then we hear the rabbit audience laughing.

Also, the whole idea of time would probably seem very weird to rabbits if they could be told about it.
MichaelPW
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Postby MichaelPW » Sat Mar 08, 2008 9:13 am

Yes, ok. There are many strange things when some sentences for example are regarded on their own. This maybe can be the same with "Wie spät ist es?" (that`s what we say in Germany). One could ask to what refers the "es".

But I really like the idea that David Lynch wants something to say with the sentences the rabbits say seen as combined. So that it would be a normal (abstract) conversation for these beings.

Some things really are underlined. For example with standing up.

Do you know who play the rabbits?

The main job for the rabbits seem to be waiting for calls. And when there is one it seems that they use magic to get into the world (or a similar world) from which the call came from. There is a connection between reproduction and rabbits in Germany. Maybe the rabbits in IE do something when there is somewhere a problem with reproduction. Sometimes there seem to be an "almost-call" like "I hear someone". Primarily they seem to represent a family.
TheMysteryMan
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re

Postby TheMysteryMan » Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:26 am

The Rabbits were played by Naomi Watts, Laura Harring, and Scott Coffey, all from Mulholland Drive. There's a similar rabbits/reproduction thing here in the USA as well, which is something I hadn't thought of before.

Strangely, in the IE script in the Japanese version, the Rabbits are identified as two male and one female, whereas I was pretty sure it was two female, one male, given who played them.
MichaelPW
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Postby MichaelPW » Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:09 am

TheMysteryMan wrote:The Rabbits were played by Naomi Watts, Laura Harring, and Scott Coffey, all from Mulholland Drive.


Oh, thank you very much for that information. Very interesting!

Strangely, in the IE script in the Japanese version, the Rabbits are identified as two male and one female, whereas I was pretty sure it was two female, one male, given who played them.


The voices are one male (in blue, Jack Rabbit) and two female! Is this script in English?
applesnoranges
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Postby applesnoranges » Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:56 pm

MichaelPW wrote:Do you know who play the rabbits?

According to imdb:
Scott Coffey ... Jack
Rebekah Del Rio ... Jane
Laura Harring ... Jane (as Laura Elena Harring)
Naomi Watts ... Suzie

Apparently Rebekah is in later episodes not used in IE.

http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0347840/

The main job for the rabbits seem to be waiting for calls. And when there is one it seems that they use magic to get into the world (or a similar world) from which the call came from.

Yes, that makes sense! So who calls them? Ultimately it must be Lost Girl because she is the one with a problem to be solved. So then, maybe we can see the scene of Sue/Nikki calling on the red phone as coming from Lost Girl. She sees rabbits on TV, meditates on them, and they become her resource for becoming free. Somehow we go from rabbits to Visitor #1 who sets the idea in motion for the story of Sue and Billy and Doris. I don't see the relationship, but LG sees both on TV.
There is a connection between reproduction and rabbits in Germany. Maybe the rabbits in IE do something when there is somewhere a problem with reproduction.

I've seen this reproduction idea before but it seems to have nothing to do with the movie. Yes, we could say that here too (e.g. the Playboy Bunny), but rabbits also have meant many other things in the history of the world. Primarily they are representatives of Trickster (called that in Native American myth, but they appear that way in many other cultures as well.) I can't imagine any of this behind the idea when David Lynch thought of them. I think he mostly liked rabbits as rabbits. Their behavior in the movie is not that of dressed humans but of actual rabbits with human bodies and voices. They sit still for long times etc.
Sometimes there seem to be an "almost-call" like "I hear someone". Primarily they seem to represent a family.

Yes, they do seem that way but I wonder how far we can take that? Their main usefulness as a family or group in the movie is so that we can hear what they think as they speak to each other.
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Postby MichaelPW » Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:15 pm

applesnoranges wrote:According to imdb:
Scott Coffey ... Jack
Rebekah Del Rio ... Jane
Laura Harring ... Jane (as Laura Elena Harring)
Naomi Watts ... Suzie

Apparently Rebekah is in later episodes not used in IE.

http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0347840/


Thank you very much!

So who calls them? Ultimately it must be Lost Girl because she is the one with a problem to be solved. So then, maybe we can see the scene of Sue/Nikki calling on the red phone as coming from Lost Girl.


Yes, Sue/Nikki (maybe Nikki who became like the Sue in OHIBT) is calling on the red phone. Primarily and apparently she wants to speak to "Billy". Lost Girl and Nikki have the same problem: "Billy" (maybe because the phantom is inside him). We cleary hear a hanging up. But this isn`t the end. Someone guided the phone call to the "rabbit office". There is a mediator. And I think this mediator can be Lost Girl (who maybe is rescueing herself and Nikki by that). Perhaps the rabbits identify where the call came from: It was red. So how did Lost Girl do the guiding? She entered a deep level of consciousness of Nikki (in a kind of sleep). How could she do that? Maybe because the more deeper the consciousness level is the more unity is there. There she showed Nikki things that would lead to the guiding. Nikki uses the cigarette and the silk - and we have a cigarette burn in the "rabbit office". Immediately the rabbits react, use magic to go to the corresponding world. Where are we now? How does Visitor 1 go at the beginning? Somehow like a rabbit under a tree who is habituating on a new world. The rabbit sees that Nikki has the chance to get the role in a new movie. So the rabbit sees a chance how to use magic: You have the role! We hear the deep magic gong and Nikki gets the role. But we are also upstairs where Mr. K is.

She sees rabbits on TV, meditates on them, and they become her resource for becoming free.


David Lynch names "The window" as one of his favourite movies. Maybe in that movie are answers about what Lost Girl`s TV could mean. I don`t know. But her TV could be viewed as a kind of window.

I think he mostly liked rabbits as rabbits.


Yes, maybe yes.

Their behavior in the movie is not that of dressed humans but of actual rabbits with human bodies and voices. They sit still for long times etc.


That`s true. I didn`t think about it so far, but it`s true. Nevertheless they are beings who can use magic - and I think that that isn`t easy for rabbits (or humans).

Yes, they do seem that way but I wonder how far we can take that?


A family can be viewed as an environment in which a "reproduction-result" has good chances to survive and live a life without misery. On another level Jack Rabbit can be seen as a son. The parents are thinking about opportunities for Jack Rabbit to reproduce himself (=calls). So we have the level in which the rabbits are interested in reproducing theirselfs and the (more magical) level in which the rabbits are interested in the reproductions in other worlds. And in the story we see there is success: We see Smithie`s son.

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