RANDOM THOUGHTS III -- You have to be wearing the watch

Discussion of INLAND EMPIRE

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applesnoranges
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Postby applesnoranges » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:45 am

MichaelPW wrote:I will look on it next time. Do you really see hints that she "comes home"? Until now I viewed it as that she wasn`t there for only a short time (maybe in another room for a short while).

That could be; I may have misunderstood that. Anyway that is where she calls him Piotrek.
That would "make sense" but would be disappointing, wouldn't it?
Ok, nothing "makes" sense. Sense is either there or not. ( :) ) I don`t write "why?", because I would like it so. Like it how it is.

I mean that what you said seems to be trying to make sense, in the sense of making a different kind of sense than the sense that is there. I like it more the way it is, with the names all mixed up.
Perhaps if we should believe that those are parents there would be in the credits Mr. and Mrs. Król. But maybe we shall believe - if we take a look to the credits - that those aren`t parents.

When they are seen as parents, story characterization takes place, even though they have a different name. They are very traditional people; they are disappointed that Nikki does not speak Polish. They would probably be proud of Piotrek's speech to Devon. This is definitely what it feels like is going on, regardless of what we read in the credits. The carousel of names just seems to point to the story being an object.
Interesting. I can`t remember this. Will pay attention. The word "half" reminds me now primarily on the word "halfborn".

Must be related, but "halfborn" seems to be a word David Lynch invented, so we can find whatever meaning in it that we want.
She appears that she doesn`t know a single word in Polish.

Piotrek thinks that she does.
:) But I assume that the parents of Marek Zydowicz are named Zydowics and not "Cybulski".

Well, there we go! So why is Piotrek introducing Nikki to them? And why are they so intensely interested in appraising her? I don't see that this can be untangled. It is a beautiful tangle.
The point of the scene seems to be: Nikki doesn`t understand Polish and the three others doesn`t understand that at all.

No reason to be surprised that Laura Dern doesn't speak Polish, so she must be Piotrek's fiancee.
It seems somehow essential that Nikki must know Polish (a little bit).

They want their son to marry a nice Polish girl.
TheMysteryMan
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Half-Born

Postby TheMysteryMan » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:57 am

Quote:
Interesting. I can`t remember this. Will pay attention. The word "half" reminds me now primarily on the word "halfborn".

Must be related, but "halfborn" seems to be a word David Lynch invented, so we can find whatever meaning in it that we want.


I noticed that "half" in reading the script this weekend. I wonder if the "half" has some kind of significance regarding Nikki/Sue...as in both halves create the whole or must unite for the whole.
applesnoranges
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Postby applesnoranges » Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:13 pm

Well until something better comes along I'm assuming that Lost Girl is the soul of someone who died and can't reincarnate until she understands what went wrong with her first life. She needs the help of a Bodhisattva and the Dern character with Visitor #1 is both that and the next incarnation waiting to be born. From there though one coherent statement of what happens seems hard to come up with. Nikki "incarnates" Sue as an actress incarnates her character and Sue becomes Nikki after her death. That's where I become incoherent. But when V1 says "half born", that sort of describes her situation in that way. The embryo to whom she is speaking knows nothing about the world into which she is to be born except that it is very interesting. So V1 says "Not through the market place ..." (the world into which she went out to play) "... but through the alley way behind the market place "” you see that don't you!" (The embryo knows about the birth canal but not what is beyond it.
TheMysteryMan
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re

Postby TheMysteryMan » Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:00 am

That's an interesting idea, although how would you tie that into the reunion between LG, her husband/possibly Smithy, and Smithy's son at the end? If she had disappeared at the end it might fit in a bit better with the theory, but Nikki vanishes and LG is left with her family. It seems like the purpose of all that she has been through was to ultimately bring her back to her family and now she can begin some kind of happier afterlife, rather than a second chance.
MichaelPW
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Postby MichaelPW » Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:44 am

applesnoranges wrote:I mean that what you said seems to be trying to make sense, in the sense of making a different kind of sense than the sense that is there. I like it more the way it is, with the names all mixed up.


Yes, I know that. I was just philosophying about the saying "make sense". I learned from a book called "Der Dativ ist dem Genitiv sein Tod" that there is no sense in that saying, because noone can make sense. Sense is either there or not. I like the scene how it is. Probably the schematic suggestion that the older ones are parents is wrong.

When they are seen as parents, story characterization takes place, even though they have a different name.


But this story characterization is destroyed by their names. We cannot let the credits lead to a forming of the Nikki/Doris/phantom-scene on the one side, and not let the credits lead to a forming of the above scene on the other.

They are very traditional people; they are disappointed that Nikki does not speak Polish.


Yes, traditional people. I would say not diappointed, but sceptic.

Piotrek thinks that she does.


And I wonder why. Normally we would expect that he knows whether Nikki does know Polish or not I think.

So why is Piotrek introducing Nikki to them?


Maybe to have Nikki benefit from his might.

And why are they so intensely interested in appraising her?


Maybe they think: "We have ended the making of 4 7. We set a sign. Why does this actor engage in a remake?"

Independently of the presence of the older people Piotrek seems to think that Nikki does know Polish.
applesnoranges
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Postby applesnoranges » Thu Mar 13, 2008 9:46 pm

MichaelPW wrote:Yes, I know that. I was just philosophying about the saying "make sense". I learned from a book called "Der Dativ ist dem Genitiv sein Tod" that there is no sense in that saying, because noone can make sense. Sense is either there or not.

I understood that as a joke and was just playing off of it.
But this story characterization is destroyed by their names. We cannot let the credits lead to a forming of the Nikki/Doris/phantom-scene on the one side, and not let the credits lead to a forming of the above scene on the other.

I can see both of those things at once; that is what is fun about it. Realizing that these things can't be untangled. I think that there is a completely convincing dramatic sense that Piotrek is introducing Nikki to his parents, regardless of what the credits say. David Lynch is fascinated with that, as in Henry meeting Mary's parents and James meeting Donna's parents.
Normally we would expect that he knows whether Nikki does know Polish or not I think.

He knows her better than they do. He knows that she can understand some Polish but can't speak it. He says this to try to put in a good word for her, to make her seem more like someone they could like. And she confirms this. "... but I don't speak it." I can look at German text and see generally if it says something related to what I want to know, but to know exactly I have to ask someone.
Maybe they think: "We have ended the making of 4 7. We set a sign. Why does this actor engage in a remake?"

But then again, why would their name be the same as that of a real person from Inland Empire? I think there is no answer to these questions but that we are being put on a carousel. I don't see a way of getting off of it. Also, 4 7 was never finished.
MichaelPW
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Postby MichaelPW » Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:40 am

applesnoranges wrote:I can see both of those things at once; that is what is fun about it. Realizing that these things can't be untangled.


It seems that nosnojsirhc suggests with regard to this scene that Nikki thinks that her husband has connections everywhere. Maybe it is in her dream as the visit-scene is. Moreover it seems that not only the rabbit entered her dream, but also Piotrek Król.

I think that there is a completely convincing dramatic sense that Piotrek is introducing Nikki to his parents, regardless of what the credits say.


It`s the pattern we see primarily.

He knows her better than they do. He knows that she can understand some Polish but can't speak it. He says this to try to put in a good word for her, to make her seem more like someone they could like.


It`s again the pattern we see primarily. But I think there`s more. Maybe Piotrek hopes that she can speak Polish, because he thinks that this would be necessary to free Lost Girl.

But then again, why would their name be the same as that of a real person from Inland Empire?


I repeat me when I write that this name could give us a hint who these people are. People having something to do with the production/attempted production/finished production of a movie having something to do with Europe.
applesnoranges
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Postby applesnoranges » Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:04 pm

MichaelPW wrote:
applesnoranges wrote:I can see both of those things at once; that is what is fun about it. Realizing that these things can't be untangled.

It seems that nosnojsirhc suggests with regard to this scene that Nikki thinks that her husband has connections everywhere. Maybe it is in her dream as the visit-scene is. Moreover it seems that not only the rabbit entered her dream, but also Piotrek Król.

I'm not sure what nosno thinks, but yes, it seems that Piotrek Król only exists within the story that V1 is showing her. When she sees herself getting the part, that's when we see him on the stairs.

It`s again the pattern we see primarily. But I think there`s more. Maybe Piotrek hopes that she can speak Polish, because he thinks that this would be necessary to free Lost Girl.
...
I repeat me when I write that this name could give us a hint who these people are. People having something to do with the production/attempted production/finished production of a movie having something to do with Europe.

OK, I see the direction you are investigating then. On my own I would not be able to fill in the missing pieces to that story though.
MichaelPW
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Postby MichaelPW » Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:26 am

applesnoranges wrote:I'm not sure what nosno thinks, but yes, it seems that Piotrek Król only exists within the story that V1 is showing her. When she sees herself getting the part, that's when we see him on the stairs.


Maybe it is not a story V1 is showing her, but the consequence of her use of magic. Maybe Piotrek Król sees that Nikki Grace gets the part and thinks: "So far so good."
applesnoranges
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Postby applesnoranges » Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:52 pm

MichaelPW wrote:Maybe it is not a story V1 is showing her, but the consequence of her use of magic. Maybe Piotrek Król sees that Nikki Grace gets the part and thinks: "So far so good."

Well the whole thing is wrapped in dreams and imaginings so how could we know? Lost Girl saw V1 on TV and then we see what LG sees: V1 visiting Nikki, then pointing to another version of her on the couch. For a difference between magic and illusion to exist, there would have to be a believable world in which that difference existed. But the world of IE just keeps turning around and around on itself.

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