North Carolina accent?

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applesnoranges
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Re: North Carolina accent?

Postby applesnoranges » Sat Apr 26, 2008 12:09 am

Carl wrote:I still wonder about the ' Who is she?' girl, herself, the one that question is asked about in old Poland. :)

I don't know why such a big deal is made of "Who is she?" about someone unnamed with her back turned. But she says nearly the same lines Lucas does later, "I'm not who you think I am", etc. and can't have children. The scene seems to be "a reflection" as V1 said, but I don't know what to say about it. David Lynch says he loves abstractions in films.
'There are two versions of her on the street, one laughing at the other.'
Not sure I catch that.

One of the things we've been looking into lately is who the two Derns are. They are both the same person, but there are two of her. So which do we see in which scenes and why? Which one dies? I say it is the frightened one. I was trying a theory where one was a real person we don't know and the other was a version of her played by Nikki, but I have rejected that now.
MichaelPW
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Re: North Carolina accent?

Postby MichaelPW » Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:29 pm

Carl wrote:Maybe by being possessed ( same thing, really.)


Magic would be a source which could come from outside, while possession would be one which could come from inside.
applesnoranges
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Re: North Carolina accent?

Postby applesnoranges » Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:08 pm

What? Doesn't possession mean being possessed? Then there would have to be something outside doing the possessing. Magic doesn't seem to mean much of anything. It was just the ancient way of saying to do something not understood to make something happen. E.g. if they put a little wine in the water they drank, they did not get sick as often. They didn't know about the micro organisms in water which were killed by the alcohol so they saw it as magic performed by Dionysus, Bacchus, etc.
MichaelPW
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Re: North Carolina accent?

Postby MichaelPW » Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:54 pm

applesnoranges wrote:What? Doesn't possession mean being possessed? Then there would have to be something outside doing the possessing.


Yes, it would go inside from the outside, then being there and maybe hold her young for centuries. Magic maybe wouldn`t need to go inside.
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Re: North Carolina accent?

Postby MichaelPW » Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:42 am

applesnoranges wrote:Anyway, I don't see any similarities at all. She says the brick house tucked back in the small woods. Makes her sound like the old witch from Hanzel and Gretel. And she's from somewhere near where Nikki lives.


Maybe Visitor 1 - who probably comes from the rabbit warren ( :lol: ) - just wanted to hint her to that brick house. Perhaps "crossing the line" means going to that brick house, which maybe is the house of Smithy. During the conversation Nikki seems to be not very interested in that brick house. But maybe something happened which led her to cross the line. Interestingly she informs Mr. K about it in a kind of talk Nikki doesn`t like.

No I have never known anyone who had a gun.


Ok, and when I think about it more I see examples that one can get weapons also in Europe. But Janek knows that such aren`t good means.

If Janek did not agree it doesn't matter because the plan is to take the gun to the American story so that Nikki as Sue can get rid of Lost Girl's phantom.


It probably doesn`t matter to that concern. With regard to Janek we get a feature of his personality. And we have not much such opportunities.

I see that happening on screen so I don't know why you care what Janek thought unless you see a different story.


I wrote the reason above. That`s not a story, but I see a clear element of IE. If there`s someday a complete story from IE that element would have to be accepted.

The theory would be that he is trying to scare Devon and Nikki so that their performance will be more intense.


Think that there`s really a curse. One that comes with the phantom. But maybe all comes from the mind of the monolog woman.

I didn't ask her but I assume she did see that.


Does this suggest that when someone deals with TM that something happens for the worse?

I knew someone who went to a meeting and as they were all passing by, he singled her out and touched her third eye and she had migraine headaches after that which could not be cured. Here are some things they found out about him after he died: http://www.leavingsiddhayoga.net/secret.htm


That`s bad. So it seems that Baba Muktananda declared himself as a guru, but wasn`t one. I think that "ignoring" sexual needs often leads to problems. Not a long time ago I read about about 5000 catholic priests and bishops who sexually abused 13000 children and adolescents in 60 years in the USA.

I read that the Maharishi apparently was good in mathematics, physics and philosophy. And sometimes also in business.

OK, true enough, so then how would you interpret the scene at Doris' house?


Probably the only ones who see the phantom are we as viewers. Doris has a kind of flashback (or "flashbefore") when she sees herself with the screwdriver in herself. In that scene she answers the question about the one who hypnotized her as far as she can. Nikki is searching for more. We maybe see what is to be found: The phantom who hypnotizes people (who will become those white people?).

For one thing she is played by a woman actress and for another thing she looks like a woman.


Never thought about the gender before.

The idea that Diane dreamed it came to people in 2002 and I have never liked it.


She lays there as the dead woman when she wakes up and later she lays there dead as the dead woman.

a story told by multiple dreamers dreaming the same things.


"That`s impossible." :)

Notice that when Betty comes to Ruth's house there is bowl of red peppers on the table that we didn't see when Rita was hiding under it.


Maybe Rita put it away in between?

The clue that comes with my copy says: "1) Pay particular attention to the beginning of the film: at least two
clues are revealed before the credits."


So perhaps again a translation problem.

Those are the only three people we see in that room so that excludes everyone else out. But Jack Rabbit was the man at the séance and the séance is mentioned, so that leads to him.


I feel that it is meant that Jack Rabbit is Mr. K. Anyway, probably everyone is Mr. K with regard to a holistic view. And the hint in MTTH suggests that Mr. K/Jack rabbit are someone who isn`t mentioned in the credits.
applesnoranges
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Re: North Carolina accent?

Postby applesnoranges » Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:38 pm

MichaelPW wrote:Maybe Visitor 1 - who probably comes from the rabbit warren ( :lol: ) - just wanted to hint her to that brick house.


Yes, she could easily be seen as from the rabbit warren, but I think "the brick house tucked back in the small woods" makes her sound like a strange being from a fairy tale invading Nikki's safe world. That's all I see so far, other than it being a reference to "the book house boys". The rabbit men definitely seem to be the same kind of people as the book house boys in Twin Peaks. Always on guard against evil spirits.

Perhaps "crossing the line" means going to that brick house, which maybe is the house of Smithy. During the conversation Nikki seems to be not very interested in that brick house. But maybe something happened which led her to cross the line. Interestingly she informs Mr. K about it in a kind of talk Nikki doesn`t like.

What is "crossing the line"? Is that something in German subtitles? I didn't hear it. Says what to Mr. K.? She's not in her own house?

If Janek did not agree it doesn't matter because the plan is to take the gun to the American story so that Nikki as Sue can get rid of Lost Girl's phantom.

It probably doesn`t matter to that concern. With regard to Janek we get a feature of his personality. And we have not much such opportunities.

Unless, as I wrote somewhere else, it really did not work out well and only led to the phantom being happy to have trapped Nikki. That is still an open question. It has been said that at the reunion of the Gruszka and Lucas family, the boy has the same smile as the boy in "The Omen".
Think that there`s really a curse. One that comes with the phantom. But maybe all comes from the mind of the monolog woman.

"The longest running radio show" has a curse because it always leads to the same tragedy. I think that means a folk tale that is told in many variations but always has the same bad elements ... but which can be changed now that human beings have evolved a little more.
I didn't ask her but I assume she did see that.

Does this suggest that when someone deals with TM that something happens for the worse?

Not at all! I don't know what they do in TM (other than what everyone knows about the mantra), but the idea of responsibility is a central feature of many routes to healing and becoming whole. It seemed to me that when the phantom said, "Nothing can happen unless you will it.", it seemed familiar to my friend ... and I happen to know that she is a TM practitioner. So I thought that was what seemed familiar to her. That is, the phantom says some seductively true things. Many gurus do. But not all are honest.
I read that the Maharishi apparently was good in mathematics, physics and philosophy. And sometimes also in business.

He had a PhD in physics. That's what appealed to John Haglin I think. They were up on current trends in science. There is a site for people trying to recover from TM and it said there that the Maharishi had over $2,000,000,000 in assets.
Probably the only ones who see the phantom are we as viewers. Doris has a kind of flashback (or "flashbefore") when she sees herself with the screwdriver in herself. In that scene she answers the question about the one who hypnotized her as far as she can. Nikki is searching for more. We maybe see what is to be found: The phantom who hypnotizes people (who will become those white people?).

There would be no "ordinary" reason for Sue to see a scene from a movie in which her life is being performed by someone else, Nikki, or for Doris to see Julia Ormand playing the part of perhaps someone else. So then, there may be a nonordinary reason: that these characters are aware of being in a story. Nevertheless that is the first time we the viewers see the phantom hypnotizing. There must be more to this scene that will be discovered later.

....... Mulholland Dr. ...........

Never thought about the gender before.

Dan definitely says it is a man.
She lays there as the dead woman when she wakes up and later she lays there dead as the dead woman.

I think the dead woman is someone else but I am not going to say who just yet.
a story told by multiple dreamers dreaming the same things.

"That`s impossible." :)

First, people dream the same dreams all the time. Second, maybe all of us are dreaming the same dream in a way. Each of us describes what we know differently.

Notice that when Betty comes to Ruth's house there is bowl of red peppers on the table that we didn't see when Rita was hiding under it.

Maybe Rita put it away in between?

There wouldn't be much point of putting that in the movie. Maybe Coco moved it. Maybe Wilkins' dog moved it. So what? The same point is made by the fact that we see Ruth come back to check the kitchen then walk to the table for her keys. Then we see what Betty sees standing in the same place Ruth stood, and she can clearly see under the table. But Ruth didn't see Rita hiding.
The clue that comes with my copy says: "1) Pay particular attention to the beginning of the film: at least two
clues are revealed before the credits."

So perhaps again a translation problem.

Also, some DeLuxe edition came out later and the clues in it had been revised. I don't have it but I've read about it. E.g. the new clue says Who gives a blue key and why?, instead of just Who gives a key.

...... back to IE .........

I feel that it is meant that Jack Rabbit is Mr. K. Anyway, probably everyone is Mr. K with regard to a holistic view. And the hint in MTTH suggests that Mr. K/Jack rabbit are someone who isn`t mentioned in the credits.

I didn't see any credits at all in MTTH. Jack Rabbit is Scott Coffey and Mr. K. is Erik Crary.
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Re: North Carolina accent?

Postby MichaelPW » Fri May 02, 2008 9:52 am

applesnoranges wrote:Yes, she could easily be seen as from the rabbit warren, but I think "the brick house tucked back in the small woods" makes her sound like a strange being from a fairy tale invading Nikki's safe world.


Yes, it could also be that she invents that she comes from there; and it does not exclude the possibility that the brick house will become something important for Nikki in the future. But maybe it is not the brick house what Nikki sees, but a change in her brain what makes her think that she sees not her house, but Smithie`s house.

What is "crossing the line"? Is that something in German subtitles? I didn't hear it. Says what to Mr. K.? She's not in her own house?


Oh, thank you - I think I misunderstood it (if Scott heard it right).

scott wrote:I go across the lawn, and I don't recognize this street.
I'm not *beep* you, I'm not in my house. I'm in some other place.


We obviously have Nikki at that point. She is curious in the same way as she is when Visitor 1 visits her. But maybe - as I wrote above - it is her house. Perhaps it is a change in her what makes her see Smithie`s house. Maybe we see her point of view.

applesnoranges wrote:I think that means a folk tale that is told in many variations but always has the same bad elements ... but which can be changed now that human beings have evolved a little more.


And a folk tale generates from what happens in reality (probably in part). I would think that a curse is independent of the level of intelligence of humans.

So I thought that was what seemed familiar to her. That is, the phantom says some seductively true things. Many gurus do. But not all are honest.


So you think that in TM are honest gurus?

There is a site for people trying to recover from TM and it said there that the Maharishi had over $2,000,000,000 in assets.


For example, they bought the Teufelsberg in Germany, on which Adolf Hitler wanted to build his Germania and which is full of waste nowadays. So maybe now people can`t do stupid things with it any more.

Dan definitely says it is a man.


Yes, that`s true. But I never questioned it, because to me the one behind Winks could be a man. Very interesting that that one is played by a woman! I really don`t know what David Lynch means with that surroundings. We see some people in their apartments in the end. Ok, we have that blue box, but I don`t think that David Lynch means such an easy one.

I think the dead woman is someone else but I am not going to say who just yet.


Camilla Rhodes?

First, people dream the same dreams all the time. Second, maybe all of us are dreaming the same dream in a way. Each of us describes what we know differently.


Yes; I quoted the deputy in Twin Peaks after they found a page of Laura Palmer`s diary and agent Cooper said that he and Laura Palmer had the same dream.

There wouldn't be much point of putting that in the movie. Maybe Coco moved it. Maybe Wilkins' dog moved it. So what?


Maybe they shot the scenes at different times and didn`t notice those details. Ok, hard to imagine with regard to David Lynch. But maybe it is coincidence - not a bad one, but a neutral one. Otherwise you could be right with that. But sometimes it is hard to decide on which detail-level one "should" "watch".

E.g. the new clue says Who gives a blue key and why?, instead of just Who gives a key.


So I have the new ones. Again it is difficult to decide on which level one should answer that question. For example, it could be answered that the murderer gives Diane a key (we don`t see that, but we see the key on Diane`s table). He gave it to her to let her know that the murder is done. But is that an adequate answer? Maybe we could ask why he uses
such a means? And we could ask who the one is who gives Betty the (other?; ok, it is physical different, but is it also "symbolical" different) blue key. Is it knowledge that gives her the key? Or maybe the magician? Or does the magician lead to the corresponding knowledge?

I didn't see any credits at all in MTTH.


Me neither. I meant the credits in the feature.
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Re: North Carolina accent?

Postby applesnoranges » Fri May 02, 2008 3:09 pm

MichaelPW wrote:Yes, it could also be that she invents that she comes from there; and it does not exclude the possibility that the brick house will become something important for Nikki in the future. But maybe it is not the brick house what Nikki sees, but a change in her brain what makes her think that she sees not her house, but Smithie`s house.

Or just that she was hypnotized. But I don't see any other connections to the brick house in the woods anywhere else.
scott wrote:I go across the lawn, and I don't recognize this street.
I'm not shitting you, I'm not in my house. I'm in some other place.

We obviously have Nikki at that point. She is curious in the same way as she is when Visitor 1 visits her. But maybe - as I wrote above - it is her house. Perhaps it is a change in her what makes her see Smithie`s house. Maybe we see her point of view.

I don't think it is obvious and that is what I like about it; it still mystifies me. We see her leave the house then walk across the lawn and come back to what seems to be the same house, only now she doesn't recognize it. I'll have to look at it again with the idea of reflections in mind.

applesnoranges wrote:I think that means a folk tale that is told in many variations but always has the same bad elements ... but which can be changed now that human beings have evolved a little more.

And a folk tale generates from what happens in reality (probably in part). I would think that a curse is independent of the level of intelligence of humans.

I wasn't thinking of a curse so much as simply that old tales often have evil things in them, put there by people and retold by other people. But people can change them. There is an old tale in Spiderman 3 and if it were told traditionally, Spiderman would have killed the other guy and turned the girl into an owl. (Welch tale of Bloddeuwedd) But we now have a culture which values women more and jealousy less, so the story was changed into one which serves us now.
So I thought that was what seemed familiar to her. That is, the phantom says some seductively true things. Many gurus do. But not all are honest.

So you think that in TM are honest gurus?

I don't know anything about TM at all except that many people have found it a good thing. I was talking about the phantom in the movie. I doubt that David Lynch meant him to represent the Maharishi, but he might represent some other gurus for all I know.
For example, they bought the Teufelsberg in Germany, on which Adolf Hitler wanted to build his Germania and which is full of waste nowadays. So maybe now people can`t do stupid things with it any more.

Hmmm. Still kind of a strange thing to do.
Yes, that`s true. But I never questioned it, because to me the one behind Winks could be a man. Very interesting that that one is played by a woman! I really don`t know what David Lynch means with that surroundings. We see some people in their apartments in the end. Ok, we have that blue box, but I don`t think that David Lynch means such an easy one.

It could be anything but some things lead to stories and some don't. I think in Catching the Big Fish he says that he doesn't have a clue what the blue box is.
I think the dead woman is someone else but I am not going to say who just yet.

Camilla Rhodes?

Not exactly what I think, but close. Which Camilla Rhodes? Why do you say that?
Yes; I quoted the deputy in Twin Peaks after they found a page of Laura Palmer`s diary and agent Cooper said that he and Laura Palmer had the same dream.

That seems to be where David Lynch first began working with the idea. Yes, i think so.
There wouldn't be much point of putting that in the movie. Maybe Coco moved it. Maybe Wilkins' dog moved it. So what?

Maybe they shot the scenes at different times and didn`t notice those details. Ok, hard to imagine with regard to David Lynch. But maybe it is coincidence - not a bad one, but a neutral one. Otherwise you could be right with that. But sometimes it is hard to decide on which detail-level one "should" "watch".

I think you know that it is not an accident or a mistake. Rita dreams it how she wants and Betty dreams it how she wants.
So I have the new ones. Again it is difficult to decide on which level one should answer that question. For example, it could be answered that the murderer gives Diane a key (we don`t see that, but we see the key on Diane`s table). He gave it to her to let her know that the murder is done. But is that an adequate answer? Maybe we could ask why he uses
such a means?

This has been much discussed. There would be no need for such a thing because she could know about it from the news. Why would he risk further contact with her? Also, why would David Lynch call that a clue? I don't think so.
And we could ask who the one is who gives Betty the (other?; ok, it is physical different, but is it also "symbolical" different) blue key. Is it knowledge that gives her the key? Or maybe the magician? Or does the magician lead to the corresponding knowledge?

Yes, logically it would be the same person who gives Betty the box who gave Camilla the key. We know that Camilla has been to Club Silencio before because she talked about it in her sleep. I don't think it would be the magician because he was speaking to Betty (in French and English) and she saw him turn into a devil. Who else might have given a blue key? Who is blue? That's where logic leads as I see it.
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Re: North Carolina accent?

Postby MichaelPW » Sun May 04, 2008 6:41 am

applesnoranges wrote:We know that Camilla has been to Club Silencio before because she talked about it in her sleep.


http://www.dugpa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=852&p=9026#p9026
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Re: North Carolina accent?

Postby MichaelPW » Sun May 04, 2008 7:58 am

applesnoranges wrote:Or just that she was hypnotized.


Yes, maybe that could be a reason for her changing point of view. We have some parallels. The woman in the hotel at the beginning doesn`t recognize the hotel. The Kinski character didn`t recognize the hotel. And the monolog woman says that it isn`t her house.

We see her leave the house then walk across the lawn and come back to what seems to be the same house, only now she doesn't recognize it.


Think that I watched the corresponding scene (where she says that she crossed the lawn) more independently. She really looks there like the one who is visited by Visitor 1.

I wasn't thinking of a curse so much as simply that old tales often have evil things in them, put there by people and retold by other people.


The energy with which we hear the informations at the beginning of Inland Empire and the behaviour of Visitor 1 suggest a high significance of a curse in IE I think. Also the family meeting in the end suggest such a significance, because it represents the difficulty with which something can be done against a curse.

I doubt that David Lynch meant him to represent the Maharishi, but he might represent some other gurus for all I know.


(( :lol: :lol: ))

I think in Catching the Big Fish he says that he doesn't have a clue what the blue box is.


Yes, he says that.

Not exactly what I think, but close. Which Camilla Rhodes? Why do you say that?


That`s a more intuitively guess I think.

This has been much discussed. There would be no need for such a thing because she could know about it from the news. Why would he risk further contact with her? Also, why would David Lynch call that a clue? I don't think so.


There really seems to be a kind of delusion in the club. The key seems to represent that. Maybe the knowing of the content of the blue box makes it uninterestingly. As long it is not known people treat it with high care. "The man behind Winkies" seems to be very poor. We have a dimension reaching from the "stars of Hollywood" to the "street living people".

Yes, logically it would be the same person who gives Betty the box who gave Camilla the key.


Suddenly it is there. We don`t know if someone being in the theatre gave it "or" if it represents a kind of new mental access.

Who else might have given a blue key? Who is blue? That's where logic leads as I see it.


Yes, there seems to be a certain connection to the blue haired lady.
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Re: North Carolina accent?

Postby applesnoranges » Sun May 04, 2008 7:38 pm

MichaelPW wrote:Yes, maybe that could be a reason for her changing point of view. We have some parallels. The woman in the hotel at the beginning doesn`t recognize the hotel. The Kinski character didn`t recognize the hotel. And the monolog woman says that it isn`t her house.

Yes that confusion about where she is seems to be repeating there. Also, there are two times she enters "Smithy's House" and seems unfamiliar, this time and the one in the feature when she ran from the man in the green coat..
We see her leave the house then walk across the lawn and come back to what seems to be the same house, only now she doesn't recognize it.

Think that I watched the corresponding scene (where she says that she crossed the lawn) more independently. She really looks there like the one who is visited by Visitor 1.

I just watched it again. Only because she is Laura Dern. She seems to be becoming the woman in the monolog. Same expressions, dressed in black pants, etc.
The energy with which we hear the informations at the beginning of Inland Empire and the behaviour of Visitor 1 suggest a high significance of a curse in IE I think. Also the family meeting in the end suggest such a significance, because it represents the difficulty with which something can be done against a curse.

What is a curse? Kingsley said, "It was said to be cursed. So it turned out to be." In that statement it was said to be cursed by Kingsley himself, so then it turned out to be. So it turned out to be what it turned out to be because of what it was said that it was said, etc. etc. etc.
Not exactly what I think, but close. Which Camilla Rhodes? Why do you say that?

That`s a more intuitively guess I think.

In the movie there is a switch of apartments and a switch of girl friends. The characters involved are two blondes and two brunettes, Watts, George, Harring, and Stein. So their characters are the ones involved in what the story is about. We can eliminate the ones that don't seem logical. Since Betty and Diane seem to be two aspects of the same person and Betty is there looking at the corpse, it would not be her. Since Rita is Camilla without her memory and she too is looking at the corpse, we know it is not her. Since the woman in 12 had to answer the telephone we know it is not her. Who is left?
There really seems to be a kind of delusion in the club. The key seems to represent that. Maybe the knowing of the content of the blue box makes it uninterestingly. As long it is not known people treat it with high care.

The blue box and key could be described as what Alfred Hitchcock called "A MacGuffin" (something that means nothing in itself but around which a story is organized).
"The man behind Winkies" seems to be very poor. We have a dimension reaching from the "stars of Hollywood" to the "street living people".

I think that is one of the main themes of the movie but somehow most people miss it. Very few people report feeling sorry for that person; almost all are frightened.
Suddenly it is there. We don`t know if someone being in the theatre gave it "or" if it represents a kind of new mental access.

I don't think it matters except that answering the question of who leads to why. Yes, some kind of access. If someone is hurt and then the wound heals, we could say that it healed by itself or that an angel healed it, but either way, the wound was healed. But Rita got the key somehow, so why?
Yes, there seems to be a certain connection to the blue haired lady.

She's the likely suspect. But she doesn't do much except to be there and see all this, so, as above, why? What is accomplished? If she is some sort of angelic being from beyond ordinary life and she gives that key, why?
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Re: North Carolina accent?

Postby MichaelPW » Sat May 10, 2008 2:05 pm

applesnoranges wrote:What is a curse?


The curse seems to be completely independent from what Kingsley says. Kingsley and Freddy seem to display that they don`t believe in such superstitious phenomena. I don`t know exactly what the curse in IE is. Could be infertility, loosing a child, adultery, murder, getting lost in a role or a combination by these possibilities I guess. But the causing factor behind such things seems to be somewhat clearer: a phantom-like spirit.

In the movie there is a switch of apartments and a switch of girl friends.


The woman in 12 shows a quite strange behaviour. And this is not only suggested by the accompanying music. She apparently doesn`t know Betty. I really don`t know the reason/s for her unkindness.

Since Betty and Diane seem to be two aspects of the same person and Betty is there looking at the corpse, it would not be her. Since Rita is Camilla without her memory and she too is looking at the corpse, we know it is not her. Since the woman in 12 had to answer the telephone we know it is not her. Who is left?


Betty and Diane seem to represent the poles of the hollywood-street-dimensions. Do you think that it would really be possible that one person could throughlive these poles? Ok - we more or less know the falling of hollywood stars stories. But Betty and Diane seem to be very basically different. And why is there first a Diane named woman in Winkies and later a Betty named woman? The first question maybe is if that means that we actually have such called women or "just" signs with such names or "just" perceptions by the viewer. From Diane`s point of view it perhaps could be a dream like "Diane is someone else. I don`t like the problems which go along with Diane.".
Betty seeing the corpse could be a kind of looking into the future. Maybe Diane is dreaming that she`s Betty - apart from the problems of Diane, apart from her death in the future.

The blue box and key could be described as what Alfred Hitchcock called "A MacGuffin" (something that means nothing in itself but around which a story is organized).


Thank you for this word! But I think that the blue box means something in itself. In TP we have a black box (goat) and we learn that it is not always good to discocer a secret as there is death in that box. Assume that the blue box - at least as one part - has something to do with the relationship between the black and blonde haired woman. To open the blue box has become more interesting for the black haired woman than the presence of her girlfriend.

I think that is one of the main themes of the movie but somehow most people miss it.


I completely agree that it is one of the main themes of the movie. And I think MD best represents such a bipolarity. Maybe the blue box also has a lot to do with emotions and vulnerability.

But Rita got the key somehow, so why?


Because she realized that it is all "recorded"?

But she doesn't do much except to be there and see all this, so, as above, why?


She sees an "actor" dying. But that death seems to have no relevance for the "end-product" as all already is recorded. They all hear something in a club called Silencio. They don`t seem to have the chance to change reality anymore as all already is recorded. Maybe also the colour blue is already recorded. Maybe as committed murderers on a higher level.

What is accomplished? If she is some sort of angelic being from beyond ordinary life and she gives that key, why?


We have a desillusion. The singer sings with highest passion. What a shock to realize that it is not real! What a shock that the singer is seen dead! Maybe the magician doesn`t take Betty`s soul, but Diane`s dream. In her dream she will get the role - in reality it all is already recorded. Something with what Diane apparently can`t live. So she let kill the black haired women. But maybe this is also recorded. And maybe this leads to consequences.
applesnoranges
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Re: North Carolina accent?

Postby applesnoranges » Sun May 11, 2008 9:13 pm

MichaelPW wrote:The curse seems to be completely independent from what Kingsley says. Kingsley and Freddy seem to display that they don`t believe in such superstitious phenomena. I don`t know exactly what the curse in IE is. Could be infertility, loosing a child, adultery, murder, getting lost in a role or a combination by these possibilities I guess. But the causing factor behind such things seems to be somewhat clearer: a phantom-like spirit.

I mean what does "curse" mean? Isn't it the same as Juju? If someone gives an opinion about what will happen and then it happens, then the opinion can be seen as having been a curse, having caused the event. But can that really be true? Prince Myshkin, in Dostoyevsky's The Idiot created his own curse by worrying that he would break a certain vase on a certain day, so he sat as far from it in the room as he could. But he broke it anyway. He told himself a story and then believed it and so then it became true because he caused it to become true. It seems that Nikki became worried about what Kingsley said and the same thing happened. The producer said, "Stories are stories. Hollywood's full of them, and we're surrounded by these screwball stories every day. Stories which grew out of imagination. In this case, the same thing." Nikki has the choice of a story where there is no murder, as she first said, or being in one where there is a murder, like the visitor and Kingsley said. She can make choices that fulfill the prophesy or not.
The woman in 12 shows a quite strange behaviour. And this is not only suggested by the accompanying music. She apparently doesn`t know Betty. I really don`t know the reason/s for her unkindness.

She knew Diane because she switched apartments with her, and here she is looking at someone who looks just like Diane but says she is someone else. She seems to wonder what is going on.
Since Betty and Diane seem to be two aspects of the same person and Betty is there looking at the corpse, it would not be her. Since Rita is Camilla without her memory and she too is looking at the corpse, we know it is not her. Since the woman in 12 had to answer the telephone we know it is not her. Who is left?

Betty and Diane seem to represent the poles of the hollywood-street-dimensions. Do you think that it would really be possible that one person could throughlive these poles? Ok - we more or less know the falling of hollywood stars stories. But Betty and Diane seem to be very basically different.

As I see it, they are different ways that the same person could be.
And why is there first a Diane named woman in Winkies and later a Betty named woman? The first question maybe is if that means that we actually have such called women or "just" signs with such names or "just" perceptions by the viewer. From Diane`s point of view it perhaps could be a dream like "Diane is someone else. I don`t like the problems which go along with Diane.".

That is the most common view, but if we think of Betty as a new incarnation of Diane after she dies, then she could have named herself after the name of the waitress. The waitress was calm and happy and Diane was the opposite. Maybe she wished that she had the healthy temperament of the waitress and so tried a new life that was like that.
Betty seeing the corpse could be a kind of looking into the future. Maybe Diane is dreaming that she`s Betty - apart from the problems of Diane, apart from her death in the future.

The corpse is not wearing a name tag so we could imagine anything. I don't see a story coming from that idea or a reason that such a thing would be in the story.
Thank you for this word! [McGuffin] But I think that the blue box means something in itself. In TP we have a black box (goat) and we learn that it is not always good to discocer a secret as there is death in that box. Assume that the blue box - at least as one part - has something to do with the relationship between the black and blonde haired woman. To open the blue box has become more interesting for the black haired woman than the presence of her girlfriend.

That's somewhat why I called it a McGuffin. It has to do with how it affects the story.
But Rita got the key somehow, so why?

Because she realized that it is all "recorded"?

That happened later, when they both went there. I am assuming that she got it another time, before, and then had a bad dream about it and talked in her sleep.
She sees an "actor" dying. But that death seems to have no relevance for the "end-product" as all already is recorded. They all hear something in a club called Silencio. They don`t seem to have the chance to change reality anymore as all already is recorded. Maybe also the colour blue is already recorded. Maybe as committed murderers on a higher level.

That may all be true but I thought we were talking about the clue, "Who gives a blue key and why?" If the blue lady gave the blue key, and if, as I am imagining, she got it earlier, before she arrived in the apartment with Betty, then why did the blue lady give her the blue key? Maybe you don't agree that is what happened, but I assume that it did when I try to answer the question.
We have a desillusion. The singer sings with highest passion. What a shock to realize that it is not real! What a shock that the singer is seen dead! Maybe the magician doesn`t take Betty`s soul, but Diane`s dream. In her dream she will get the role - in reality it all is already recorded. Something with what Diane apparently can`t live. So she let kill the black haired women. But maybe this is also recorded. And maybe this leads to consequences.

Why was Rita/Camilla given the key?
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Re: North Carolina accent?

Postby jina » Mon May 12, 2008 5:28 am

applesnoranges wrote:
MichaelPW wrote:The curse seems to be completely independent from what Kingsley says. Kingsley and Freddy seem to display that they don`t believe in such superstitious phenomena. I don`t know exactly what the curse in IE is. Could be infertility, loosing a child, adultery, murder, getting lost in a role or a combination by these possibilities I guess. But the causing factor behind such things seems to be somewhat clearer: a phantom-like spirit.

I mean what does "curse" mean? Isn't it the same as Juju? If someone gives an opinion about what will happen and then it happens, then the opinion can be seen as having been a curse, having caused the event. But can that really be true? Prince Myshkin, in Dostoyevsky's The Idiot created his own curse by worrying that he would break a certain vase on a certain day, so he sat as far from it in the room as he could. But he broke it anyway. He told himself a story and then believed it and so then it became true because he caused it to become true. It seems that Nikki became worried about what Kingsley said and the same thing happened. The producer said, "Stories are stories. Hollywood's full of them, and we're surrounded by these screwball stories every day. Stories which grew out of imagination. In this case, the same thing." Nikki has the choice of a story where there is no murder, as she first said, or being in one where there is a murder, like the visitor and Kingsley said. She can make choices that fulfill the prophesy or not.


i agree with this, too.

it's what they're talking about on IMDb.
somebody asked there: "is the murder part of the script or part of the curse??
this is why people said she's lying to V1.

other parts : when they attend the TV show and when piotrek talks to Devon in private.
both events seem to affect this love affair/curse thing.
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Re: This Is The Street

Postby applesnoranges » Mon May 12, 2008 7:59 pm

I can't tell what is in the script and what is not. During the rehearsal for scene 35 when Devon goes following the noise, we see a version of the old Polish street with the doorway on Kingsley's set and he just said, "This set is ours and ours alone." Then after they film the garden scene, he says, "Now we're going to leave this lovely weather!", which may mean that his crew is going to Poland to film the Polish parts that we see. So everything may be in the script.

btw: It might be interesting sometime to count the scenes from the beginning and see if that rehearsal scene is in fact scene 35 or Inland Empire. I don't know if it is or not, but if it is, it would prove what seems to be true already, that Kingsley is talking about the same scene that he himself is in at that moment and in which Devon/Billy arrives at Smithy's House and discovers Nikki/Sue looking out the window.

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