Re: L.B.
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:49 pm
alrighty, kiddo. i am listening. but im not hearing anything new.
when i joined this conversation, i was countering your point about the judgement of nikki as good or bad. you were pretty out of line in how you responded. now we're talking about the bare facts of the film, and i dont really see how anyone of us can really convince another of the facts if we differ in how we see them. in IE, the girl with the pony tail, climbing the stairs is Grushka. i think we agree on that. the corpse you say is uncredited actress looks to me like julia ormond. if you remember, the killing scenes happen pretty quickly once sue looks through the hole in the silk that Grushka showed her. first is the phantom and her arguing. then piotrek(or polish lucas as you call him, tho piotrek is polish for peter, and his americanized name is peter lucas, so i dont think it matters what you call him.) is seen in an arguement with the woman in white, who talks like they are married. then is the assault on Grushka, then peter/piotrek standing outside waiting. the time is 9:45. but there is a shot of Grushka in room 205, tearing up at the site of peter/piotrek. then grushka and the phantome meet on the street and have another threatening converstation about someone who has died that grushka knows. i think the symmetry carl is talking about is there. Grushka killed her lovers wife. the phantom killed piotrek. as is said multiple times, actions have consequences. Grushka is in limbo, not for adultry, but for murder.
nikki, by becoming sue, takes the place of Grushka in judgement. that is why ormond kills her. the phantom, who has hypnotized her, is still after Grushka, and knows that nikki/sue is helping her in someway. but what he doent know is that piotrek/peter is trying to help as well, hence the gun that can do away with the phantom(but not until the third shot, which is when nikki's ghastly grin is super imposed on him, as if to imply that the phantom is at work in nikki/sue as well). but nikki is able to stand without fear and enter room 47, where an audience cheers loudly for her. then Grushka is released and reunited with her lover(who is still dressed as smithy, and has his son with him, which i believe to be important facts). then nikki enters the palace, just as visitor #1 said she would at the beginning.
at least thats my take. and thanks again for being condescending by reverting to insults instead of discourse. funny because thats one quality in a person that i would judge to have a bad character, yet you very easily feel you can make that judgement(so important to you, seemingly) about nikki/dern, but whatever). and i still think youre using a double standard here, when admittedly, youre not sure about the basic facts of the film. so how about no more name calling and we continue a nice civil discourse of a film that we all seem to be enthralled by. at least thats why i came here.
when i joined this conversation, i was countering your point about the judgement of nikki as good or bad. you were pretty out of line in how you responded. now we're talking about the bare facts of the film, and i dont really see how anyone of us can really convince another of the facts if we differ in how we see them. in IE, the girl with the pony tail, climbing the stairs is Grushka. i think we agree on that. the corpse you say is uncredited actress looks to me like julia ormond. if you remember, the killing scenes happen pretty quickly once sue looks through the hole in the silk that Grushka showed her. first is the phantom and her arguing. then piotrek(or polish lucas as you call him, tho piotrek is polish for peter, and his americanized name is peter lucas, so i dont think it matters what you call him.) is seen in an arguement with the woman in white, who talks like they are married. then is the assault on Grushka, then peter/piotrek standing outside waiting. the time is 9:45. but there is a shot of Grushka in room 205, tearing up at the site of peter/piotrek. then grushka and the phantome meet on the street and have another threatening converstation about someone who has died that grushka knows. i think the symmetry carl is talking about is there. Grushka killed her lovers wife. the phantom killed piotrek. as is said multiple times, actions have consequences. Grushka is in limbo, not for adultry, but for murder.
nikki, by becoming sue, takes the place of Grushka in judgement. that is why ormond kills her. the phantom, who has hypnotized her, is still after Grushka, and knows that nikki/sue is helping her in someway. but what he doent know is that piotrek/peter is trying to help as well, hence the gun that can do away with the phantom(but not until the third shot, which is when nikki's ghastly grin is super imposed on him, as if to imply that the phantom is at work in nikki/sue as well). but nikki is able to stand without fear and enter room 47, where an audience cheers loudly for her. then Grushka is released and reunited with her lover(who is still dressed as smithy, and has his son with him, which i believe to be important facts). then nikki enters the palace, just as visitor #1 said she would at the beginning.
at least thats my take. and thanks again for being condescending by reverting to insults instead of discourse. funny because thats one quality in a person that i would judge to have a bad character, yet you very easily feel you can make that judgement(so important to you, seemingly) about nikki/dern, but whatever). and i still think youre using a double standard here, when admittedly, youre not sure about the basic facts of the film. so how about no more name calling and we continue a nice civil discourse of a film that we all seem to be enthralled by. at least thats why i came here.