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"It Was Red"

Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 7:15 pm
by Kiddo
What was red, in your opinion?

Bear in mind that at least three different characters utter this statement: Suzie Rabbit, Mr. K, and one of the Polish men at the seance. For those who haven't heard about this, the latter two say it in Polish ("Czervony, tak").

Re: "It Was Red"

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 1:12 am
by applesnoranges
There seems to be a lot of red here: http://www.rooster.pl/en/lodz/ "It was red" was first said in the séance and connects to the question, "You work for someone?" From the looks of the decor of Rooster in Lodz, I guess that Gordy's plastic cup thrown on the ground came from there. It's the same color and seems to have been put in the scene for no other purpose than to answer the question. (btw, the "was" indicates that this scene comes before the séance.) Of course we saw a rooster outside the shed a moment before.

The rabbits knew what was said at the séance because they were there as men, then Jack Rabbit sat down and told Mr. K.

Re: "It Was Red"

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 8:57 am
by Kiddo
I assume that the connections you're making to Rooster are just a joke?

The red seems most closely connected to the recurring red bulbs and lamps that we see throughout the film. Sue (or whoever she is) partially explains the back history and personal significance of the red lamp during an extended "rant" scene in More Things That Happened. It has to do with her mother's sexual promiscuity and a subsequent sense of shame and anger. It seems important that she tells Mr. K that she has always kept this red lamp that originally belonged to her mother.

Notice the appearance of the red lamp in the rabbit room's back window, as well as the ones in the rabbit room itself, the seance room, room 205, the strange hallway behind the first door in the green hall at Smithy's, Smithy's bedroom, Smithy's storage room, and the lounge dance room at 40 Deuce. And don't forget the red bulb in Crimp's mouth.

Re: "It Was Red"

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 10:49 am
by applesnoranges
Kiddo wrote:I assume that the connections you're making to Rooster are just a joke?

No, that's the primary answer.

I think the various red lamps are mainly markers like the LB, to distinguish one part of the movie from another.

Re: "It Was Red"

Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 8:19 am
by MichaelPW
The rooster and the red cup can`t be coincidences. :)

Re: "It Was Red"

Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 9:27 am
by applesnoranges
Another thought is that perhaps the first thing that "was red" was the red light bulb in Majchrzak's mouth "” because that was chosen without David Lynch's direct decision. He was told to pick one of three objects then improvise with it. So once it was there in the movie, DL may have begun noticing other red things (the final destination being the ballerina's dress). So he may have gone to the Rooster restaurant in Lodz with the crew and noticed red cups there and asked to have one. I don't know that there are red cups like that in the restaurant; I can't see them in the site's photo gallery; it's just a guess because of how many other red things are there. And I don't know what order the scenes were taken so again, a guess.

It reminds me of an exercise offered by William Burroughs which he called walking on colors. What he meant was that you can take a walk and pick a color to notice. Then you think of the relationships between all the things you see that are that color. It points to the difference between thinking that the colors are there arbitrarily or if they have the relationships that they seem to have to any person trying the exercise.

But clearly in the seen at the shed we are shown a rooster for some reason, then the cup. Then at the séance, the exchange about who he works for near the comment in Polish "It was red". The comment seems to refer to that cup in that scene. But I don't think the rooster in that scene is a coincidence either. So again, it means that he worked for Gordy.

This is not to discount the red lamps that Kiddo mentioned. They are something I'd like to know more about too. Specifically, I'd like to know why there are different ones in different scenes.

Re: "It Was Red"

Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 12:49 pm
by jina
applesnoranges wrote:
It reminds me of an exercise offered by William Burroughs which he called walking on colors. What he meant was that you can take a walk and pick a color to notice. Then you think of the relationships between all the things you see that are that color. It points to the difference between thinking that the colors are there arbitrarily or if they have the relationships that they seem to have to any person trying the exercise.


that's really fun! :D

about the red bulb, yes, DL offered the actor 3 different objects which he chose randomly and that guy picked the red bulb.
but i'm still far from understanding what they are actually talking about in that particular scene. i guess i have to watch it again.

edit: also the ketchup on her husbands white t-shirt...?

Re: "It Was Red"

Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 4:49 pm
by Kiddo
perhaps the first thing that "was red" was the red light bulb in Majchrzak's mouth "” because that was chosen without David Lynch's direct decision.

But you're still missing the salient point: Lynch offerned the red bulb to Majchrzak. This suggests to me that he had developed the red lamp concept long ago.

Re: "It Was Red"

Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 4:59 pm
by applesnoranges
At the shed: Piotrek walks toward the shed hesitatingly. Rooster walks by the shed. Piotrek knocks and Gordy opens the door. Piotrek says, "Gordy!" Gordy throws down his red cup.

.......

When at the man at the séance says the sentence with Czerwone in it, right in front of him, shining in the dark, is a bright white coffee cup. There is a cup and he said "It was red." So I am 100% convinced that he meant Gordy's red cup. This scene is also connected to the conversation about the one Piotrek works for.

Man on right: Do you see her?

Piotrek: No.

[subtitle] It was ... red.

(We see coffee cup.)

Man on right: You work for someone?

Piotrek: Yes. (We see coffee cup again.)

Man on right: This is the one she spoke of.

Piotrek: The one I work for. (Coffee cup.)

Man on right: So ... you understand.

Bearded man speaks about horse to the well. No more coffee cup. When we return to Man on right getting out the gun, his cup is out of the picture and so not brought to our attention.

Then the men change into rabbits. Man on right changes into Jane sitting on couch, man on left becomes Jack, and Man in the middle becomes Suzie at ironing board. When the scene changes, one of the last things we notice in the fade is the red lampshade of the séance room because it is against the dark background of the window in the rabbit room and there is a red lampshade in the other room (I think when Nikki said, "Look in the other room!", this is the other room.) Now in the rabbit room, Suzie says "It was red." right at this transition. So that draws attention to the two red lampshades being in close proximity but different shades. So in this scene Suzie's line seems to be about the lampshade, but it also draws attention to the rabbits having been at the séance.

Re: "It Was Red"

Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 7:14 pm
by Kiddo
At the shed: Piotrek walks toward the shed hesitatingly.

The character you're referring to is Smithy, and not Piotrek. Major oversight, here. And I honestly see no relevence to the rooster.

Re: "It Was Red"

Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 9:17 pm
by applesnoranges
There is no Smithy and since Lucas' first name is Piotrek and he's credited with playing a character with that name, he can be called that. If you don't like the rooster, you need to take that up with David Lynch. It's already in the movie and I can't do anything about it.

Re: "It Was Red"

Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 4:43 pm
by Kiddo
I never suggested that I don't like the rooster; I'm stating that he has no significance.

And, once again, Smithy is Susan's husband. He's the character in the scene we're discussing, and he's played by Peter Lucas. Smithy's standing with his son (credited as "Smithy's Son") at the end of the film. And, following your own line of thought, if you don't like Smithy, you need to take that complaint up with David Lynch and not me.

Re: "It Was Red"

Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 6:49 pm
by applesnoranges
David Lynch did not say that anyone was Smithy.

Re: "It Was Red"

Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 7:28 pm
by Kiddo
David Lynch also didn't say that anyone played the rabbits, but we know exactly who played them, don't we? In other words, he's not going to spell everything out for us in the credits.

It's also worth remembering that we know that Peter Lucas plays a Polish character who gets shot in the head, and yet is never credited as such. Is this supposed to be Piotrek too? Of course not. We also know Karolina Gruszka plays different roles because some of her characters only speak English while others speak Polish. Yet she's only credited as Lost Girl.

My point is that the credits are not entirely reliable.

Re: "It Was Red"

Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 8:51 pm
by Carl
I consider it an open question as to whether the man at the seance and/or at the shed is Smithy or Piotrek, and whether those are scenes in OHIBT or IE.
I'd like to be convinced, one way or the other ( or another.)