Trials and tribulations, triumphs and satisfactions of being a writer, an artist, or other creative type

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Stavrogyn
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Trials and tribulations, triumphs and satisfactions of being a writer, an artist, or other creative type

Post by Stavrogyn »

I wanted to start a thread dedicated to writers, their creative processes, and writing in general for a long time, and I think this is the perfect opportunity.
Jonah wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 4:03 am I finally broke my 7-year cycle of being stuck submitting the same series of fantasy novels (that came close with publishers and agents) and wrote two new novels late last summer, back to back, poured out of me. First drafts took 2 months each, and have been sending them out ever since plus continuing to edit. A few bites here and there and interest from a few agents/publishers but nothing yet, though one has generated more interest than the old ones - but mostly I'm just glad I broke the cycle and proved to myself I have more books in me! I'm lining up 2 more in my mind to write now. It's amazing how you can be blocked or focused on one project (in my case, a series of fantasy novels) then when you let go or at least put it on the back burner, all this other stuff rushes to the surface, ideas that before you had struggled to come up with are suddenly there!
Glad to hear your work is going well! I wish you all the luck with finding a publisher!

Our creative processes seem to be quite different. I was never able to write that much; I don't have a lot of stories or ideas in my head. Most of the things I write are very personal. I spend years working on each novel, then I never let anyone read a word of it - I don't even let anyone know the title - until I find a publisher and it goes into print. It took me five years to finish my first novel, but I found a publisher relatively quickly; however, I had to fund the book myself, because it was a small company that depended on government funds, and since my book didn't get any, we had to find another solution. I live in a small country where the publishing business is not quite blossoming so, even though not perfect, it was a solution that eventually helped me get my book out. And hey, Marcel Proust had to fund the first part of In Search of Lost Time himself, so I'm in good company! :D

I have been working on my second novel since the end of 2018. My process is this: I work on a text for a few years until it feels done (it took me two years in this case), then I don't touch it for a while (it's been almost a year now), so after enough time has passed, I revisit it with a fresh perspective - because time has passed, and things that used to seem perfect suddenly appear faulty. I usually write with pen and paper and only later copy the text into digital form, but this time I'm doing it the other way around: I have written it on my computer, and now I will copy it with a pen and paper to have a real, physical copy. It may seem odd, but this process will enable me to check every word, every comma, the rhythm of the sentences, every single thing once again, systematically and carefully, in order to get as close to my ideal as possible. Even though it may sound grueling, I'm actually looking forward to it very much, because I love writing, I love the novel I'm working on, and I have been really missing it during the last year.

So, all the aspiring and accomplished writers out there, all the people who love the written word, please, share your thoughts and experiences!
All those years living the life of someone I didn't even know - Knight of Cups (2015)
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Histeria
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Re: Trials and tribulations of being a writer

Post by Histeria »

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Re: Trials and tribulations of being a writer

Post by Stavrogyn »

I can understand procrastination very much; there are things I could have done years ago that are still waiting. I realized the other day that I haven't published anything new fiction-wise since 2016 - and that was a very short story. So yes, postponing action is, unfortunately, definitively my thing too.

I didn't know that you write, Histeria, but I'm not surprised to hear that! I find your posts interesting, you are obviously quite eloquent, and you post a lot, so it makes sense :) I'm not sure what kind of advice could I possibly give regarding publishing besides this: if you have any kind of work that you consider finished - a book, short story, essay, poem, etc. - just send it to a publisher, literary magazine, or wherever, and think about the consequences (i.e. public scrutiny) after it was published.

I have been writing for more than 20 years now, ever since I was a kid, and I never had a fear of being published, but I do have another kind of problem: I never give my works to friends, professors, or other people I know - and I know a few writers since I graduated in literary studies - because I don't want their advices to influence my work, even if they're good - especially if they're good! I'd rather write a mediocre book that is completely mine than a masterpiece that was greatly influenced by other people and their opinions.
All those years living the life of someone I didn't even know - Knight of Cups (2015)
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Re: Trials and tribulations of being a writer

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Re: Trials and tribulations of being a writer

Post by Ickles »

Interesting to hear your perspectives! I've been a writer most of my life, starting with a short story contest I won in like 4th grade. I edited my High School literary magazine, wrote a ton of short fiction, got a couple published in very minor literary journals here and there, etc.

I transitioned to screenwriting once I got the cinephile bug (thanks, in no small part, to Mr. Lynch's films) and didn't really touch creative writing/fiction for about a decade. I wrote several feature films, a handful of TV pilots and produced my own independent web series and short films that kept me busy for 5+ years. I do miss the grind of breaking, writing and editing episodes in pretty short order. Something about the firm deadline of needing the scripts to go into production helped nip my propensity for procrastination in the bud a bit. When I look back at the volume of work I generated in that period it's a bit bewildering, given how much my creative juices have dried up a bit in recent years.

Alas, once I kind of lost steam in the film/TV industry (it's a pretty competitive world that I lost interest in trying to stay in after trying to "break in" for a decade) I stopped writing as much. In recent years I've decided to take fiction writing back up again. Started a novel last year, which I have about 60 pages of currently and threw together a short novella type thing with weekly chapter installments via Amazon's Kindle Vella platform, mostly just for fun and to get back into the habit of writing regularly.

Honestly the biggest issue for me, and this was perhaps more true of screenwriting, is feeling like if nobody really reads my stuff or if it isn't at least modestly successful then what's the point? If I wanted to write purely for myself/my satisfaction then I could journal or keep everything under lock and key but ideally I'm writing something to share it with the world at large. I want my work with connect with somebody else. It doesn't have to be a NYT Bestseller and take the world by storm. I don't have any delusions about getting rich and famous as the next Stephen King but I would like to not just write into an echo chamber ideally. That makes it tough to weather rejections and failures which tend to pile up a lot. As I get older though (turned 40 last year) I'm trying to let go of that mentality a bit and just write from a more holistic place of just satisfying my creative side, more as an exercise in self-care as I tend to get quite down and unmotivated when I don't have any creative outlets. All work and no play make, well, you know.
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Re: Trials and tribulations of being a writer

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Great idea for a thread Stavrogyn. I don't want to derail it too much, but I've been a bit vexed lately about connecting with others via creative works. & I notice that tension between writing/creating for oneself vs for public consumption has come up in the above posts...

I'm an art therapist, a field I was drawn to when looking for a career change a few years back. What drew me to it was recognising how much I found artistic creation to be healing/sublimating/regulatory, etc. Which is an element that exists in both personal & public creation (less so if there are creative shackles in the public forum). I've just gone through a break-up so in some ways I'm rediscovering how important creativity is to me; I'm also more or less an introvert so art gives me a vessel for expression that I don't get as much with the spoken word.

But back to the vexation. I've written a decent amount in the past & sold stories/articles/a screenplay, though usually as a ghostwriter. As great a word as 'ghostwriter' is, it limits your audience to a single person or small group of people. Which is still gratifying to have someone connect with your work, but it's definitely different to how I've connected with people via creative works in the past. I was in a band for awhile (we split about a decade ago) & even though we only put out one album it was well received by its niche audience & we did a lot of touring which really hammered home the beauty of connecting with larger groups of people via art. I kinda miss that.

So lately I've been thinking about stepping back into the arena again (in some form), but I find that it raises questions, most of them fairly common I guess. Can I be satisfied creating for myself / a very small audience, or is it more fulfilling for me to connect with a larger group of people? Where is the core of my feelings, do I find art to be most fulfilling when it's shared? Probably, because then you get the double whammy of personal expression & connecting with others.
& then related questions: what is the nature of shared creative works in 2022? Mass media is becoming ever more massive/diversified, & there are still some juggernauts that most people are at least aware of even if they haven't directly read/seen/heard them. & with everyone plugged into the Wired (sorry, rewatched 'Lain' recently * ), even niche areas are quite sprawling. Then with platforms like instagram, a lot of people are pumping out creative content on a micro scale, maybe only seen & enjoyed by a handful of friends & strangers. It seems like the possibilities are endless, but is there... I don't know, too much going on? & what is the sweet spot for me anyway? (Not that that's very controllable, there's no guarantee people will appreciate what you/I put out. Or maybe it'll trend & before you know it a lot of people are paying attention... but are they next week?).
& with writing specifically, how is that evolving? I personally still love reading (there's nothing like a novel!), but I also know the amount I read is much lower than I did in the past, at least when it comes to fiction. That seems to be true for people in general, at least percentage-wise, but with an ever-increasing population does that somewhat balance out? I suppose it's further balanced out by audio books, & in some strange way that hearkens back to the early days of story-telling, where it was audibly recounted by a shaman or ye olde bard remembering tens of thousands of lines.

I don't know, I'm obviously thinking aloud & kind of rambling (again, sorry if this has drifted off topic). I guess the TL;DR is -- what do you/I find most fulfilling, & in an increasingly media saturated world, where do I find home?

(Sorry Stavrogyn, I realise this is more 'trials & tribulations of being a creator' than specifically a writer! I hope it counts that I do indeed love the written word & come at least partially from a writing background).

-------

* Okay, now this is really off-topic, but I was struck by some similarities between Serial Experiments: Lain (short 90s anime series) & Twin Peaks: begins with the death of a school girl (who is dead, yet lives), main character is fractured into separate selves, questions of identity, repeated shots of power lines, surreal narrative that prompts multiple interpretations, bravura-type episodes. That's off the top of my head, but there's more (also didn't want to get too spoiler-y). Might have a look around dugpa to see if it's been brought up.
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Re: Trials and tribulations of being a writer

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Great thread! I've written up a couple of long posts to respond with but they went too into the weeds about my journey trying to break into publishing and how I started writing and how long I've been at this (a very long time now - decades on and off). It was an interesting exercise to lay it all out for myself but much of it wouldn't be of interest to those outside my own personal echo chamber (lol) so I think it needs condensing. Might consider editing it down and posting it at a later date but for now the bit Stavrogyn quoted above feels like a fine, albeit not very detailed, summary of my experience to date. And it's been interesting reading everyone else's experiences.
Saturn's child wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 12:16 am (Sorry Stavrogyn, I realise this is more 'trials & tribulations of being a creator' than specifically a writer! I hope it counts that I do indeed love the written word & come at least partially from a writing background).
Maybe Stavrogyn would be open to the thread being renamed The Trials and Tribulations of Being a Creator or The Trials and Tribulations of Being a Writer or Other Creative Type or something along those lines?
I have no idea where this will lead us, but I have a definite feeling it will be a place both wonderful and strange.
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Re: Trials and tribulations of being a writer

Post by Saturn's child »

Jonah wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 1:52 am Maybe Stavrogyn would be open to the thread being renamed The Trials and Tribulations of Being a Creator or The Trials and Tribulations of Being a Writer or Other Creative Type or something along those lines?
That would make my 'drifting off-topic' guilt far worse :lol:
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Re: Trials and tribulations of being a writer

Post by Stavrogyn »

Saturn's child wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 9:23 am
Jonah wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 1:52 am Maybe Stavrogyn would be open to the thread being renamed The Trials and Tribulations of Being a Creator or The Trials and Tribulations of Being a Writer or Other Creative Type or something along those lines?
That would make my 'drifting off-topic' guilt far worse :lol:
I would be fine with renaming the thread as long as it keeps the discussion alive :) My first idea was to make it "Trials and tribulations of being an artist", but I'm not sure if my understanding and usage of that word correspond with the meaning most commonly associated with it? To me, painters, sculptors, filmmakers, musicians, poets, novelists, etc., they're all artists.
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Re: Trials and tribulations of being a writer

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Right now I'm struggling with self-promotion and how to wrap my head around doing things I actively hate, i.e. social media, tweeting, blogs, etc. This is where the reality of being an unrepped and unpublished author really hits. Ideally I'd be in a position to just write and have somebody else working to promote and market for me but if I want anybody else besides my immediate friends and family to read what I'm self-publishing I'm going to have to actually sell myself which I've never ever liked doing. If anybody has any tips on how to market without having to post the same dumb horseshit into the echo chamber of social media all day I'm all ears.
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Re: Trials and tribulations of being a writer, an artist, or other creative type

Post by Jonah »

I renamed the thread but Stavrogyn, feel free to change it back or change it to something else - anything you like - if you'd rather another title. Just edit your original post and it should let you change the name.
I have no idea where this will lead us, but I have a definite feeling it will be a place both wonderful and strange.
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Re: Trials and tribulations of being a writer, an artist, or other creative type

Post by Stavrogyn »

Jonah wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 12:48 pm I renamed the thread but Stavrogyn, feel free to change it back or change it to something else - anything you like - if you'd rather another title. Just edit your original post and it should let you change the name.
Thank you, Jonah, and no worries, I like the expanded title of the thread!
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Re: Trials and tribulations, triumphs and satisfactions of being a writer, an artist, or other creative type

Post by Jonah »

Stavrogyn wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 5:14 am
Jonah wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 12:48 pm I renamed the thread but Stavrogyn, feel free to change it back or change it to something else - anything you like - if you'd rather another title. Just edit your original post and it should let you change the name.
Thank you, Jonah, and no worries, I like the expanded title of the thread!
I tweaked it slightly again to also mention some of the good of being a writer (that's a writer - always rewriting and editing lol). Hope you don't mind.

Also, I don't know about the rest of you but I need this:

https://twitter.com/seanmwrites/status/ ... 7199012865
https://twitter.com/seanmwrites/status/ ... 08/photo/1

(For those who can't click on or see the links for whatever reason, it's a cafe in Tokyo called The Manuscript Writing Cafe that is for writers on a deadline - and they won't let you leave until you reach the word count you say when you enter.)
I have no idea where this will lead us, but I have a definite feeling it will be a place both wonderful and strange.
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Re: Trials and tribulations, triumphs and satisfactions of being a writer, an artist, or other creative type

Post by Histeria »

Need. Not want.

I don't want this. If there's one thing you should know about me, it's that I need this.
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Re: Trials and tribulations, triumphs and satisfactions of being a writer, an artist, or other creative type

Post by Stavrogyn »

Jonah wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:01 am I tweaked it slightly again to also mention some of the good of being a writer (that's a writer - always rewriting and editing lol). Hope you don't mind.

Also, I don't know about the rest of you but I need this:

https://twitter.com/seanmwrites/status/ ... 7199012865
https://twitter.com/seanmwrites/status/ ... 08/photo/1
I like the title, it adds to the thematic grasp of the thread. I will be creating a similar thread on Tulpa later today.

And what a funny idea, that café for writers on a Deadline :o I'm not sure that it would be right for me, because I tend to spend hours just editing one or two pages I already spent hours and hours editing before. I rarely add a lot of new text!
All those years living the life of someone I didn't even know - Knight of Cups (2015)
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