Antkind by Charlie Kaufman

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Mr. Reindeer
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Antkind by Charlie Kaufman

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Has anyone read (or started reading) Kaufman’s novel? I know a couple of users were looking forward to it. I found it a lot broader and zanier than I was expecting, and lacking much of the humanity of Kaufman’s last few films. That said, I enjoyed it immensely for its humor, experimentation with form, philosophical off-ramps, and the expected Kaufman innovative scenarios and concepts as the novel spins delightfully into pure entropic craziness (while still feeling completely cohesive by the end). Sadly, no Lynch references amongst the myriad allusions (The Elephant Man gets a mention, but it’s the Bernard Pomerance play, not the film).
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Re: Antkind by Charlie Kaufman

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Mr. Reindeer wrote:Has anyone read (or started reading) Kaufman’s novel? I know a couple of users were looking forward to it. I found it a lot broader and zanier than I was expecting, and lacking much of the humanity of Kaufman’s last few films. That said, I enjoyed it immensely for its humor, experimentation with form, philosophical off-ramps, and the expected Kaufman innovative scenarios and concepts as the novel spins delightfully into pure entropic craziness (while still feeling completely cohesive by the end). Sadly, no Lynch references amongst the myriad allusions (The Elephant Man gets a mention, but it’s the Bernard Pomerance play, not the film).
Haven't read it, but sounds like I need to put it on my list!
F*&^ you Gene Kelly
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Re: Antkind by Charlie Kaufman

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Mr. Reindeer wrote:Has anyone read (or started reading) Kaufman’s novel? I know a couple of users were looking forward to it. I found it a lot broader and zanier than I was expecting, and lacking much of the humanity of Kaufman’s last few films. That said, I enjoyed it immensely for its humor, experimentation with form, philosophical off-ramps, and the expected Kaufman innovative scenarios and concepts as the novel spins delightfully into pure entropic craziness (while still feeling completely cohesive by the end). Sadly, no Lynch references amongst the myriad allusions (The Elephant Man gets a mention, but it’s the Bernard Pomerance play, not the film).
I'm fourth in the queue at my library for Antkind. Waiting (im)patiently!
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Re: Antkind by Charlie Kaufman

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Two hundred pages into Antkind! I was in the middle of a re-read of Lawrence Durrell’s Alexandria Quartet when I came to the head of the queue at my library. It took me a couple of chapters to switch gears in my brain from Durrell’s long, poetic prose sentences to Kaufman’s short, staccato mind-bursts. But I’m in the groove now. Man, I thought I had a monkey-mind, but Kaufman’s B. is the king monkey! More than a few of his mental rambles could have come right out of my brain—which is somehow comforting. I have no idea where this is all heading, but I’m having a good time!
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Re: Antkind by Charlie Kaufman

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Rigpa wrote:Two hundred pages into Antkind! I was in the middle of a re-read of Lawrence Durrell’s Alexandria Quartet when I came to the head of the queue at my library. It took me a couple of chapters to switch gears in my brain from Durrell’s long, poetic prose sentences to Kaufman’s short, staccato mind-bursts. But I’m in the groove now. Man, I thought I had a monkey-mind, but Kaufman’s B. is the king monkey! More than a few of his mental rambles could have come right out of my brain—which is somehow comforting. I have no idea where this is all heading, but I’m having a good time!
Glad you’re enjoying it! It just gets weirder and weirder as it goes. I read it a second time and caught a bunch of very satisfying connections I missed the first time, but certain things still have me at a loss.
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Re: Antkind by Charlie Kaufman

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Hey Mr. Reindeer! Wow Charlie Wow! Finished the book today, and am blown away by what Kaufman accomplished. I'm sending you a PM with some rambling thoughts...
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Re: Antkind by Charlie Kaufman

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(I keep getting error messages that won't let me send a PM, so I'll just post this and others who aren't interested please ignore me! Or if you plan to read the book, possible spoilers ahead..)

A little preamble:
Do you know about the animated series The Midnight Gospel? The premise revolves around a “spacecaster” named Clancy who travels to planets to interview the beings inhabiting those worlds for his spacecast. The interviews are actual interviews taken from The Duncan Trussell Family hour, and are all metaphysical/spiritual/philosophical/magickal. In the show they are set in fantastical, bizarre worlds with trippy adventures. When I finished Antkind, I immediately thought of episode 5 of Midnight Gospel. Clancy ends up on a soul prison planet, and has this amazing interview with a “soul bird” named Jason, who is trying to help a prisoner escape. The prisoner keeps dying with every attempt, and every time he dies his heart is weighed. He has to go back and relive his escape attempt until he gets out without killing anyone. The interview is a deep one, and in many ways is covering ground I think Kaufman is getting at.

I think B. is dying throughout the entire book, and is stuck in a bardo loop. I understand wanting to go right back to the beginning and start reading it again. I wanted to find where the bardo loop began. I think it is on his drive when he enters Florida—on pg. 7 “Something (deer?) dashes in front of my car” I think he crashed right there. Then a paragraph break and “I am driving through blackness toward St. Augustine.” Then four pages of serious monkey mind self-judgment, until another paragraph break and in italics: Tell me how it begins. Then “In a car. I am driving. Me but not me. Night Dark. Black, really. Yes, he’s in Bardo mode for sure.

So, the movie is his life. He has to keep reliving his life, remaking the movie over and over until he works through his shit. It’s beautiful how his inner voice changes and mellows in the last 15 pages, and then he hits bottom. I wondered about the title Antkind until the final chapters, when it became clear. Ant society is a perfect metaphor for the Buddhist belief that we are all One, no me and others. We are all connected particles of one mind. Of course Kaufman says “I am a Buddhist” in the final paragraph of the book, and tells of Jack Kornfield’s “Have a Fucking Paradigm Shift, Assholes”, moments before the big let go. An interesting choice, that B.’s release comes through falling through darkness and hitting bottom, when more traditionally it comes through dissolving into the Clear Light (…into the light, Leland, into the light…) But there was that section with the movie that is hour after hour of just White. White. White. White. (pg. 624 “So I must embrace this emptiness, discover where it leads.)

Anyway, thanks for listening to my ramblings! The Midnight Gospel is on Netflix, and the episode is only 23 minutes!
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Re: Antkind by Charlie Kaufman

Post by Mr. Reindeer »

Rigpa wrote:(I keep getting error messages that won't let me send a PM, so I'll just post this and others who aren't interested please ignore me! Or if you plan to read the book, possible spoilers ahead..)

A little preamble:
Do you know about the animated series The Midnight Gospel? The premise revolves around a “spacecaster” named Clancy who travels to planets to interview the beings inhabiting those worlds for his spacecast. The interviews are actual interviews taken from The Duncan Trussell Family hour, and are all metaphysical/spiritual/philosophical/magickal. In the show they are set in fantastical, bizarre worlds with trippy adventures. When I finished Antkind, I immediately thought of episode 5 of Midnight Gospel. Clancy ends up on a soul prison planet, and has this amazing interview with a “soul bird” named Jason, who is trying to help a prisoner escape. The prisoner keeps dying with every attempt, and every time he dies his heart is weighed. He has to go back and relive his escape attempt until he gets out without killing anyone. The interview is a deep one, and in many ways is covering ground I think Kaufman is getting at.

I think B. is dying throughout the entire book, and is stuck in a bardo loop. I understand wanting to go right back to the beginning and start reading it again. I wanted to find where the bardo loop began. I think it is on his drive when he enters Florida—on pg. 7 “Something (deer?) dashes in front of my car” I think he crashed right there. Then a paragraph break and “I am driving through blackness toward St. Augustine.” Then four pages of serious monkey mind self-judgment, until another paragraph break and in italics: Tell me how it begins. Then “In a car. I am driving. Me but not me. Night Dark. Black, really. Yes, he’s in Bardo mode for sure.

So, the movie is his life. He has to keep reliving his life, remaking the movie over and over until he works through his shit. It’s beautiful how his inner voice changes and mellows in the last 15 pages, and then he hits bottom. I wondered about the title Antkind until the final chapters, when it became clear. Ant society is a perfect metaphor for the Buddhist belief that we are all One, no me and others. We are all connected particles of one mind. Of course Kaufman says “I am a Buddhist” in the final paragraph of the book, and tells of Jack Kornfield’s “Have a Fucking Paradigm Shift, Assholes”, moments before the big let go. An interesting choice, that B.’s release comes through falling through darkness and hitting bottom, when more traditionally it comes through dissolving into the Clear Light (…into the light, Leland, into the light…) But there was that section with the movie that is hour after hour of just White. White. White. White. (pg. 624 “So I must embrace this emptiness, discover where it leads.)

Anyway, thanks for listening to my ramblings! The Midnight Gospel is on Netflix, and the episode is only 23 minutes!
Great thoughts! I have not seen The Midnight Gospel. I will add it to my watch list. Sounds like it would be up my alley.

BOOK SPOILERS FOLLOW FOR THOSE WHO HAVEN’T READ AND INTEND TO

After my second read-through, I’m of the opinion that the oversized insect that splats on B.’s windshield near the beginning of the book is Calcium the ant, traveling back in time. It’s hilariously tragic when you realize Calcium came so close to meeting B., only to die in the effort. I also think the St. Augustine monster might be Calcium (Calcium’s corpse is last seen when B. throws it in the ocean, so perhaps it continued backwards in time, becoming increasingly deformed...Dunham at the beginning of the book calls the globster “two-thirds an ant”).

I did notice the “Tell me how it begins,” and took it to be Barassini prompting B. at the start of a session (he often starts by saying, “Tell me”). On that same page, there’s also a paragraph where B. marvels at the way “he” makes the rain, implying that B. is already in Ingo’s film. I think both of these support your interpretation.

There’s also a passage late in the book where Mudd and Molloy resolve to keep flinging clones of themselves back in time. I think all the mysterious orphan-twins who pop up out of nowhere in the book (Hubert and Dunham, Rooney and Doodle, Castor and Pollux, Mutt and Mahle) are all Mudd and Molloy clones (Dunham almost had this figured out). Again, the theme of characters living out lives over and over again. Also, the “white comedy” of Mudd and Molloy pretty literally destroys the world through these clones (Rooney and Doodle kill the meteorologist and thereby discredit the Digger movement; Pollux seems to be basically running the world through Slammy’s by the end).
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Re: Antkind by Charlie Kaufman

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I was thinking that the monster on the beach was the clones Mudd and Molloy sent back in time. As you said, Dunham suggests to Herbert "what if that mound of stuff was us?...babies of us from the future, that get all jammed up together in their travel back in time to now..." I was confused as to the importance of it as a preamble, but I think you've hit on it with "the theme of characters living out lives over and over again."

I can also see the preamble functioning as a bookend. Dunham tells the story of Jonah, "He gets himself swallowed by a giant fish on account of he's shirking' what God wants of him. After a spell, God has that fish vomit him out on the shore..." Then nearing the end of the book, B. gets swallowed by a giant fish before being spit out and ending up in the cave, where he'll go through the final stages of confronting what God wants of him.

(A little side note: I live in north central Florida, and have spent a lot of time in St. Augustine, and on the beaches between there and Crescent Beach, where they find the sea monster!)
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Re: Antkind by Charlie Kaufman

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Rigpa wrote: I can also see the preamble functioning as a bookend. Dunham tells the story of Jonah, "He gets himself swallowed by a giant fish on account of he's shirking' what God wants of him. After a spell, God has that fish vomit him out on the shore..." Then nearing the end of the book, B. gets swallowed by a giant fish before being spit out and ending up in the cave, where he'll go through the final stages of confronting what God wants of him.
It’s also worth noting that B. gets interested in film in college because he ducks into a theater playing Godard’s ‘Weekend,’ solely to avoid talking to an adult Dunham. So in a way, the St. Augustine monster is responsible for the trajectory of B.’s life (although, true to the book’s ever-shifting reality, a few other passages refer to B. already being into cinema at a much younger age).
(A little side note: I live in north central Florida, and have spent a lot of time in St. Augustine, and on the beaches between there and Crescent Beach, where they find the sea monster!)
Very cool! I love the way he weaved real events like that into the mythology of the book. It’s almost impossible to tell which whimsical things are Charlie’s invention as opposed to real things (I was saddened to learn that ‘Moutarde’ is not a real film, but delighted to learn that Neal Oram’s 22-hour play ‘The Warp’ is very much real).

As for me, I’m in NY, and I can confirm that the description of B.’s block at West 44th and 10th is accurate, with a Dunkin’ Donuts and an H&R Block. ;)
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Re: Antkind by Charlie Kaufman

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And for our next Charlie Kaufman fix, we get I'm Thinking of Ending Things on Netflix tomorrow (9/4)!
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Re: Antkind by Charlie Kaufman

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Rigpa wrote:And for our next Charlie Kaufman fix, we get I'm Thinking of Ending Things on Netflix tomorrow (9/4)!
I can’t wait! The trailer looks bananas.
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Re: Antkind by Charlie Kaufman

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Mr. Reindeer wrote:
Rigpa wrote:And for our next Charlie Kaufman fix, we get I'm Thinking of Ending Things on Netflix tomorrow (9/4)!
I can’t wait! The trailer looks bananas.
What a ride. After a first viewing, my favorite scene was Jessie Buckley slipping into a Pauline Kael impression to extensively quote/recite/appropriate Kael’s review of ‘A Woman Under the Influence,’ criticizing Gena Rowlands’s performance for being too unfocused and all over the place, when of course that is exactly the performance Buckley is being asked to give. Classic Kaufman.
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Re: Antkind by Charlie Kaufman

Post by Rigpa »

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:
Rigpa wrote:And for our next Charlie Kaufman fix, we get I'm Thinking of Ending Things on Netflix tomorrow (9/4)!
I can’t wait! The trailer looks bananas.
What a ride. After a first viewing, my favorite scene was Jessie Buckley slipping into a Pauline Kael impression to extensively quote/recite/appropriate Kael’s review of ‘A Woman Under the Influence,’ criticizing Gena Rowlands’s performance for being too unfocused and all over the place, when of course that is exactly the performance Buckley is being asked to give. Classic Kaufman.
Yes! That was my favorite scene also! And it dovetails so perfectly with Antkind and B.’s film criticism rants. Along with the similarities of a self-doubting protagonist split into more than one personality, trying to portray himself to the world as an intellectual, smart, kind, but ultimately alienated from the rest of the world. This time it is a wise pig at the end telling him we’re all the same, all one!
Toni Collette is simply amazing. David Thewlis didn’t have much to do, but what a pair as the parents. Perfect.
Jesse Plemons is having quite a career. He reminded me so much of Philip Seymour Hoffman in this role.
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Re: Antkind by Charlie Kaufman

Post by Mr. Reindeer »

Rigpa wrote: Yes! That was my favorite scene also! And it dovetails so perfectly with Antkind and B.’s film criticism rants. Along with the similarities of a self-doubting protagonist split into more than one personality, trying to portray himself to the world as an intellectual, smart, kind, but ultimately alienated from the rest of the world. This time it is a wise pig at the end telling him we’re all the same, all one!
Not to mention the idea of exploding ants!
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