Episode 2

Moderators: Annie, BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne, Brad D

User avatar
LostInTheMovies
Posts: 1557
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:48 pm

Episode 2

Postby LostInTheMovies » Fri Nov 14, 2014 3:27 pm

This thread can be used to discuss any random questions, observations, or other details about episode 2 (i.e. the second hour-long episode of season 1, directed by David Lynch, with the Red Room sequence). I'll kick it off...

I just read the script for the first time, on Lynchnet. Not sure if it was the final draft but there were some notable differences. A few thoughts spring to mind (and I'd love to hear other perspectives on the script/screen differences):

1) Though it's credited to both Lynch & Frost, I wonder how much Lynch actually contributed to it. It feels more like a Frost script (and I've heard that he was pretty much responsible for the Tibet rock-throwing scene, other than Lynch coming to him and saying, "we've got to put something in about the Dalai Lama!"). The stuff that was most Lynchian about the episode - the sandwiches in the beginning, Audrey's dance at the diner - aren't in the script at all. In fact, the Audrey-Donna scene is an interesting contrast (it takes place outside church instead of the RR). There's no real undertone of rivalry like you get in the diner sequence, and Audrey never mentions her father's affection for Laura or her own desire for Agent Cooper. A sweet, albeit kind of pointless scene as scripted; this seems to be the greatest single difference between what was written and what aired.

2) Ray Wise has mentioned that the blood on the portrait was an accident, and sure enough the scripted scene ends with him still spinning with the portrait. It's never been clear to me if Lynch/Frost knew that Leland would be the killer from the pilot or just from the early episodes of season one. It would be funny if the blood on the portrait sealed the deal for them (especially since that would mean Wise inadvertently made himself the killer, something he didn't want to be). That does seem unlikely though; among other reasons, this was the second-to-last s1 episode shot (scripted doesn't matter, since the blood wasn't in the script) and I have a feeling they knew before then. Also there are so many subtle clues in the pilot; though I suppose that could just be the logic of the material leading in a certain direction before the creators themselves knew.

3) It's often mentioned that the Pete/Catherine scene must have been moved from the beginning to the end of the episode, because it refers to the fish-in-the-percolator incident as "today." But I didn't realize how many other scenes shifted too. The drug deal was supposed to be one of the last scenes rather than one of the first, and Leland dancing with the portrait also took place on the first night. Interesting, because people have theorized that Cooper's dream of the dancing Little Man occurs simultaneously Leland's dancing, which obviously wasn't the original intention. This scene is also a much more effective segue into the dream than the drug deal. Wonder why the Pete/Catherine scene was switched with the drug deal though (especially since the latter seems to pay off the "earlier" scene with Shelly & Bobby).

4) I always assumed that the dream sequence was supposed to contain the whole European ending, since that's what Cooper describes in the following episode. But I never realized that, as scripted, the dream sequence would have played as reality (until Cooper wakes up in the end)! In other words, an audience watching it at the time would have thought these things were really happening...at least until we get into "25 Years Later" and the Red Room. And even then they probably would have thought "what's going on" rather than "he's dreaming." There are even little tricks, like Sarah telling Leland she's going downstairs (before we see her on the couch in Cooper's dream) or Cooper tossing and turning and waking up within the dream itself. So it could've been even more of a mindfuck than it already was! This seems to me like a really cool missed opportunity, but obviously it would have played way too long. Which is maybe why Lynch supposedly went to the network and asked for another 2-hour episode?

If anyone knows more details about how Episode 2 was shot and scripted, please share here. Along with any other random thoughts or observations about the episode.
SickNotes
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:04 am

Re: Episode 2

Postby SickNotes » Fri Nov 14, 2014 4:32 pm

Is The Man from Another Place rubbing his hands together really fast with his back to the camera? Or, is he shivering?

I have yet to watch through the European Pilot, but I wanted to know where MIKE'S speech is occurring. He appears to be in a hospital with a scale behind him? Is he being interrogated in the European Pilot at this point? I guess, what I'm asking is whether his speech is in the European Pilot and when?
User avatar
LostInTheMovies
Posts: 1557
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:48 pm

Re: Episode 2

Postby LostInTheMovies » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:09 pm

SickNotes wrote:Is The Man from Another Place rubbing his hands together really fast with his back to the camera? Or, is he shivering?


With his back to us, we'll never know. ;)

I have yet to watch through the European Pilot, but I wanted to know where MIKE'S speech is occurring. He appears to be in a hospital with a scale behind him? Is he being interrogated in the European Pilot at this point? I guess, what I'm asking is whether his speech is in the European Pilot and when?


It is in the hospital, where he has called Cooper to meet him so they can discuss Bob. Bob is in the basement of the hospital.
FauxOwl
Posts: 141
Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 3:08 pm

Re: Episode 2

Postby FauxOwl » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:14 pm

Is it known that Lynch and Frost knew Leland was the killer as early as Season 1? I figured with Lynch saying the murderer was never intended to be revealed, they hadn't even decided who the killer was until they were writing season 2.
SickNotes
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:04 am

Re: Episode 2

Postby SickNotes » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:16 pm

As regards the MIKE speech thanks for the lowdown. I thought it would have been spookier if he was saying that to Ronette Polaski's comatose body or even worse Laura Palmer's dead body. I assumed it was a discussion from the European Pilot.
User avatar
LostInTheMovies
Posts: 1557
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:48 pm

Re: Episode 2

Postby LostInTheMovies » Fri Nov 14, 2014 6:44 pm

FauxOwl wrote:Is it known that Lynch and Frost knew Leland was the killer as early as Season 1? I figured with Lynch saying the murderer was never intended to be revealed, they hadn't even decided who the killer was until they were writing season 2.


Frost has claimed many times that they knew early on who the killer was. And he gave an interview in 1990 during the first season when he said this too, so it wasn't just something he came up with after the fact. Although quite a few people thought he & Lynch were full of it! But I tend to believe them.

Here's the 1990 article which quotes him, and is worth a read:
http://www.nytimes.com/1990/04/08/arts/ ... blues.html.

"We started with this image of a body washing up on a lake," says Mr. Frost. "It took us a while to solve the murder. We had to know the town before we could make up a list of suspects. Only after we knew most of its people was the killer revealed to us."

I'd love to know precisely what he means by "took us a while"...as they were writing the pilot or over the months they were developing the first season? But I don't think he's stated a specific, unequivocal time. Not to mention the process of discovery - did they "suspect" other people, did one of them lead the way?

I'd also love to know the process behind the reveal. Frost and Lynch both say that Lynch was opposed, but obviously he went along with it to some extent since he co-owned the show with Frost and directed so much of the early first season. Did he realize right away how much this would kill his enthusiasm for the series? And did he ever publicly express dismay about this before FWWM, or only afterwards? I need to check out (and revisit) more of the promotional stuff he did for the film...
User avatar
Odnetnin
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:38 pm

Re: Episode 2

Postby Odnetnin » Fri Nov 14, 2014 9:17 pm

SickNotes wrote:As regards the MIKE speech thanks for the lowdown. I thought it would have been spookier if he was saying that to Ronette Polaski's comatose body or even worse Laura Palmer's dead body. I assumed it was a discussion from the European Pilot.


Maybe it's because I watched the European Pilot before Episode 2, but I found everything that happens from the moment the vision of BOB replaces the hand grabbing the locket to be disappointingly literal and somewhat poorly written. It didn't make sense why MIKE and BOB were at the hospital, why BOB was hiding out in the basement, etc. The Red Room sequence, too, worked much better in the context of the series proper. That said, it shows either foreknowledge on Lynch's part or amazing improvisation that he was able to integrate the footage so seamlessly into Episode 2. He did such a good job making it feel like a glimpse into an unknowable world that I was disappointed Cooper was able to explain it so logically at breakfast the next day. I guess that was always the tension between Lynch and Twin Peaks.
User avatar
David Locke
Posts: 300
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:24 pm

Re: Episode 2

Postby David Locke » Fri Nov 14, 2014 10:54 pm

Random thoughts (I watched this episode again recently after craving some peak 'Peaks, even though I just watched the series a few weeks ago. Can't get enough of the whole world, film especially...)

- I did not know before, but now it makes sense that the MIKE and BOB scenes in Coop's dream were originally from the Euro pilot ending. The only problem I have with the dream sequence is how relatively un-dreamlike that static close-up of MIKE as he soliloquizes is; it just feels too prosaic (though not bad unto itself) compared to the rest of the dream.

- Although Lynch's Episodes 14 and 29 are greater, this is maybe just as impressive in some ways because it's not a Big Event episode, (aside from the very end, I guess), and yet Lynch directs it flawlessly, makes all of it riveting and fresh and hypnotic. This is probably the best random "go-to" episode when I feel like putting some Peaks on, because the aforementioned two are too disturbing for casual viewing and the pilot's a bit too heavy too. But this episode is just such a seamless piece of work.

- I know this is present throughout the entire series, but what struck me on this last viewing (and I'm eve now casually watching the ep again as I write this!) was the beautiful warmth of the color tones. This is especially memorable in the Audrey/Donna RR scene, which is just so insanely mesmerizing and lush and funny; an easy candidate for top 5-10 greatest TP scenes.

- Love the minimal, darkness-enshrouded look of the Leo/Bobby drug deal scene in the forest; Lynch used this again and again in FWWM to wonderful effect, with scenes seemingly lit by just a single harsh flashlight bulb.

- Of course the opening scene is hilarious. One of my favorite moments is Sylvia's incredibly outraged, over-the-top cry of "Benjamin!!!" -- which seems to be prompted not by Jerry kissing her, as is oft-noted, but just by his mere presence? Or maybe something more abstract, which is precisely why it's so funny in a typically Lynchian way. Also funny is how this is her character's only line (isn't it?) until the last episode, when she gets a mere few words more. I almost feel like the under-use of her character was an intentional joke on the part of Lynch and Frost.

- Love the use of dissolves in the transitioning sequence of Ben and Jerry taking the boat to OEJ's.

- Every plot feels just right in this episode, from Bobby/Shelley to Catherine/Pete/Josie, to even the Nadine stuff which doesn't bother me here. It's a perfectly calibrated piece of storytelling. Somehow all the pieces just effortlessly fall together. It's easy to get addicted to this episode, which I think may capture the "essence" of Twin Peaks at its best, that mood and style and combination of stories that kept so many coming back for more.

- Coop's dream is interesting for just how lighthearted it feels in comparison to virtually every other red room scene to follow, in the series and the film; MFAP almost seems like a nice little guy here (though his epileptic-like shaking is quite disconcerting), which couldn't be further from the truth in later visitations. The Lynchian surrealism that this episode so famously ends with may have been as popular and widely-loved as it was at the time partly because it lacks the sheer terror and uncanny goings-on that dominate the trips to the red room in the series finale and FWWM.

- Perfect small moment: Coop's offhand but gleeful little pinching of Truman's nose.

- The only thing Lynch does here I don't care for: the exaggerated low-angle close-ups of Albert as he enters the station (a cliche'd way of conveying power/authority), and the exaggerated high-angle view of Albert and Truman.

- Kind of wonder what Coop's dream about Tibet was like.
Last edited by David Locke on Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
LostInTheMovies
Posts: 1557
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:48 pm

Re: Episode 2

Postby LostInTheMovies » Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:02 pm

Odnetnin wrote:Maybe it's because I watched the European Pilot before Episode 2, but I found everything that happens from the moment the vision of BOB replaces the hand grabbing the locket to be disappointingly literal and somewhat poorly written. It didn't make sense why MIKE and BOB were at the hospital, why BOB was hiding out in the basement, etc. The Red Room sequence, too, worked much better in the context of the series proper.


I mostly agree, so maybe it's wrong to say the whole thing should've been included as a dream sequence. What we have is probably much spookier. The only cool part of stuffing the whole European ending in there is that viewers may have been fooled into thinking it wasn't a dream. But that's kind of a one-trick pony I guess. I wonder if that was the reason it wasn't done, or if it was simply time constraints and - had ABC approved another 2-hour episode - they would have gone ahead and included it all.

He did such a good job making it feel like a glimpse into an unknowable world that I was disappointed Cooper was able to explain it so logically at breakfast the next day. I guess that was always the tension between Lynch and Twin Peaks.


Yup.
Last edited by LostInTheMovies on Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
LostInTheMovies
Posts: 1557
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:48 pm

Re: Episode 2

Postby LostInTheMovies » Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:11 pm

David Locke wrote:Random thoughts (I watched this episode again recently after craving some peak 'Peaks, even though I just watched the series a few weeks ago. Can't get enough of the whole world, film especially...)

...


Well, I agree with everything you said here, as if you were reading my mind. Even down to the exaggerated angles being the one part of the episode I find visually jarring. This really is the perfect "representative" Twin Peaks episode (although that word is misleading since this is one of the very best). It captures the fun, entertaining side of Twin Peaks better than anything else, and is definitely the one I'm most likely to turn to for casual viewing. In fact, until this year it was the only piece of Twin Peaks (other than the film) that I owned, on a used VHS tape! It's also the episode I recommend all newcomers watch up to, even if they aren't taken with the pilot. I always say if you aren't hooked by the end of the Red Room dream sequence than the show definitely is not for you but you must give it till then to capture you.

And this is especialy astute: "The Lynchian surrealism that this episode so famously ends with may have been as popular and widely-loved as it was at the time partly because it lacks the sheer terror and uncanny goings-on that dominate the trips to the red room in the series finale and FWWM." It even leaves out one of the weirder shots of the European vision, where the Little Man and Laura hold/rub hands (the sequence in the episode is subtly a bit shorter). Sometimes it seems like the press' take on the show reached its crescendo here, coasted through the rest of the first season, and blacked out everything that came after. This is another reason I look forward to 2016 - critics are going to have to rediscover many of the things they dismissed or ignored first time around. Should be interesting.
User avatar
Odnetnin
Posts: 25
Joined: Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:38 pm

Re: Episode 2

Postby Odnetnin » Sat Nov 15, 2014 2:26 pm

My favorite moments from Cooper's dream through the end of the episode:

The slurred speech of Sarah Palmer as she calls for Laura and the disorienting, slowed-down shot of the stairs. (I know it's been said before, but it's absolutely incredible the way the fan was used to convey evil so early on, when its significance wouldn't be explained until FWWM). It freaks me out every time.

The Little Man doing who the hell knows what before he turns around, as has been mentioned already. I've read theories that he is manipulating time by rubbing his hands, thus making Cooper appear older, but I don't think any explanation would satisfy me. The sound he makes contributes to the creepiness.

Finally, the moment that I feel captures so much of the appeal of Twin Peaks, and by extension Lynch as a filmmaker (and, if I were to psychoanalyze, as a person): the fact that Cooper can't seem to get the "music in the air" out of his head. He doesn't go back to sleep immediately after calling Truman; he snaps his fingers as Badalamenti's music plays in the background. Coupled with the sinister true nature of the Red Room that David Locke brought up, I think this scene captures the allure evil has when it's dressed up as immaculately as the Little Man and wears his wry smile. It makes him more terrifying in retrospect, and calls to mind both "Fire, walk with me" and BOB's invitation to Leland to "play with fire."
User avatar
LostInTheMovies
Posts: 1557
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:48 pm

Re: Episode 2

Postby LostInTheMovies » Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:52 pm

Odnetnin wrote:My favorite moments from Cooper's dream through the end of the episode:

The slurred speech of Sarah Palmer as she calls for Laura and the disorienting, slowed-down shot of the stairs. (I know it's been said before, but it's absolutely incredible the way the fan was used to convey evil so early on, when its significance wouldn't be explained until FWWM). It freaks me out every time.

The Little Man doing who the hell knows what before he turns around, as has been mentioned already. I've read theories that he is manipulating time by rubbing his hands, thus making Cooper appear older, but I don't think any explanation would satisfy me. The sound he makes contributes to the creepiness.

Finally, the moment that I feel captures so much of the appeal of Twin Peaks, and by extension Lynch as a filmmaker (and, if I were to psychoanalyze, as a person): the fact that Cooper can't seem to get the "music in the air" out of his head. He doesn't go back to sleep immediately after calling Truman; he snaps his fingers as Badalamenti's music plays in the background. Coupled with the sinister true nature of the Red Room that David Locke brought up, I think this scene captures the allure evil has when it's dressed up as immaculately as the Little Man and wears his wry smile. It makes him more terrifying in retrospect, and calls to mind both "Fire, walk with me" and BOB's invitation to Leland to "play with fire."


I know that by FWWM the Little Man seems pretty malevolent (although I suppose that's somewhat debatable) but can we really say he's evil in this dream sequence? It doesn't seem like he's doing anything to mislead or corrupt Cooper, quite the contrary.
bosguy1981
Posts: 528
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Episode 2

Postby bosguy1981 » Sun Nov 16, 2014 3:47 pm

The editing at the beginning of Cooper's dream, where the One-Armed Man and BOB are talking, has always been my least favorite part of this episode. I guess because he's using footage filmed for the alternate pilot.

It seems like maybe Lynch didn't have access to the master footage from that boiler room scene in the pilot when he was editing episode 2, because it seems like every shot of Strobel and Silva is identical to what appeared in the final edit of the European pilot. I just always find it sloppy because at the point in the pilot where they'd cut from BOB in the boiler room back to Cooper/Truman's reaction shot, Lynch has to cut away at that moment to the shot of Cooper sleeping in his bed. Know what I mean? The timing on the way that scene was edited always struck me as kind of sloppy (for David Lynch) and a little "off" and I have to wonder if it's partly because he didn't have access to the master footage from the original scene. It would have been nicer-looking to maybe linger on a master shot of OAM/BOB reading those lines (even if it meant reshooting them with Strobel and Silva) instead of having the cut-aways to sleeping Cooper timed the way they were.
User avatar
LostInTheMovies
Posts: 1557
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:48 pm

Re: Episode 2

Postby LostInTheMovies » Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:17 pm

User avatar
BOB1
Posts: 348
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2011 1:11 pm
Location: Poland

Re: Episode 2

Postby BOB1 » Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:47 am

We've recently started rewatching the series with a group of friends. Quite a big group actually - yesterday there were 15 of us - and we watched Eps. 1 and 2. On some occasions I expressed my not-so-big-admiration for Ep.2...
(for instance: here I tried to answer LostInTheMovies' question "what about Ep.2 doesn't capture me as much as the others")
... so how did yesterday's viewing do?

Well, great! :) As usual, to be honest. After all, I always said it's a great episode, just overrated ;) Summing up:

1. SCENES THAT I LOVE

- "we have to dance for Laura" - emotionally heartbreaking is one thing, cinematicaly brilliant is the other and the combination makes a perfct scene: the picture, the spinning, the gramophone, Sarah cries, Leland weeps, and when the scene breaks from wildly despairing to plain sad...

- rocks and bottles - genuinely funny (the looks on the faces of Sheriff & co.!) but at the same time it works great on a serious level, too. It fascinates me and I believe it :D On top of it, it's an essential thing that the scene reveals how much the dream world means for Cooper: the rocksandbottles scene is one of the key factors to make the final dream sequence work

- the meal at the Horne's - someone said above that it as hilarious, I don't know... Yes, Jerry is amazing and hilarious, the way the brothers talk with their mouths full: of course I laugh. But bottomline, it's a deeply tragic scene when you look at it as a family scene

2. A SCENE THAT I APPRECIATE

- the dream - it is of course something unheard of, a mindblast; without it Twin Peaks would never be what it is. The world of the town is very interesting in itself, takes one in and makes one want to take part in that reality. But here, after the dream sequence, there's no way out: it is something you have to face up to if you want to keep being a fan... So I totally appreciate it but I don't love it if you get my meaning. It's certainly my least favourite Red Room moment if compared to things from Ep.29 and FWWM and from the supernatural things that will come I prefer any moment with the Giant or the Waiter. Also, I am not particularly fond of the MIKE/BOB beginning of the sequence. MIKE is too static as someone above pointed out and with BOB I don't like the place he's in, it doesn't work for me.
Still I do find the dream sequence captivating and so what if there are scenes later which I like more?

On a side note, I must wholeheartedly agree with Odnetnin's remark about the Euro ending:
I found everything that happens from the moment the vision of BOB replaces the hand grabbing the locket to be disappointingly literal and somewhat poorly written. It didn't make sense why MIKE and BOB were at the hospital, why BOB was hiding out in the basement, etc. The Red Room sequence, too, worked much better in the context of the series proper. That said, it shows either foreknowledge on Lynch's part or amazing improvisation that he was able to integrate the footage so seamlessly into Episode 2. He did such a good job making it feel like a glimpse into an unknowable world

I'll say more: in the Euro ending it was CRAP. It was stupid. The one single worst thing Lynch has ever put his hand on. I don't know why I feel so strongly about it, nevermind - the point is that surprisingly the same material is integrated really well into the episode. What was literal and pointless here turned into "a glimpse into an unknowable world" that really drops your jaw (and it does matter a lot that there is a scene before where Cooper so amazingly shows how much the world of dreams reveals to him!).

3. SCENES I LIKE VERY MUCH

- One Eyed Jack's - gives me thrills! Blackie's entre, Ben's poem, Jerry's disappointment, the shyness of the new girl. So much is going on inside people in this scene! Shouldn't I move it up to category 1?
- Albert's intro - perhaps you're right about the low/high camera angles but I don't realy mind that at all
- Audrey - the diner dance scene of course but I am not sure if it isn't the "racket" scene with Ben that I like even more!
-
Perfect small moment: Coop's offhand but gleeful little pinching of Truman's nose

absolutely!
- Nadine and her completely silent drape-runner - I'm actually surprised how much I like those early Nadine scenes now!

4. SCENES I LIKE BUT NOT SO MUCH

- drug deal in the woods - I have the same thing in FWWM. Something bothers me about the way it is shot. Theoretically very well done but I don't get the flow while watching these scenes
- ... I had something in mind but can't recall right now or perhaps there wasn't anything more ;)

5. SCENES WHICH ARE THERE

- Bobby & Shelly, Pete & Catherine, Ed & Norma - they're ok but scenes like that are basically in every episode including the 20s and I don't see anything better in those just because Lynch directed them ;)

6. SCENES WHICH I RATHER DON'T LIKE

- both moments at the Hayward's.. sort of embarassing I'd say.


Altogether it's a very good episode indeed. A great one. I'll give it ****1/2 for *****.


ps. The beautiful warm colour tone was mentioned somewhere above. yes, it is characteristic of the whole Season 1, yet it was yesterday with Episode 2 that it struck me again. Wonderful!
Bobi 1 Kenobi

B. Beware
O. Of
B. BOB

Return to “Season 1 (1990)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest