Episode 14

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FredTruax
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Re: Episode 14

Postby FredTruax » Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:03 pm

Vis a vis the murder scene; i wonder if there is any footage of Sarah in frame on the floor whilst the killing was happening. i wonder if Lynch wanted her as part of the "scenery" but was denied by the network. i can only imagine how much more intense a scene it would be with shots if her lying unconscious in the floor while bob is doing his thing right above!
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FredTruax
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Re: Episode 14

Postby FredTruax » Sat Sep 24, 2016 6:29 pm

PS.

lost in the movies: your presence in the TP community is highly valued for this poster. Your video series is the high water mark of of TP commentary and an invaluable resourse for anyone with any interest in not only TP but TV history. Your comments here and elsewhere are always enjoyable and i am always very pleased to here your name announced as a guest whenever I am consuming the varuous bits of TP media ( although i do disagree with some of your conclusions concerning the show's audience numbers and cancellation). We need a definitive podcast of the shows run; pilot - finale, detailing all the ins and outs; you would be amongst my dream team to panel it ( with bradD & joshE).

PPS. Another good podcast is DIANE. Although it is a poor title ( nothing in the title other than the name "diane" to connect it to TP) it is quite thorough and informative in the inimitable manner of profundity you can only get from graduates of the british educational system.

Thank You JB, for your time and input over the years. :)
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LostInTheMovies
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Re: Episode 14

Postby LostInTheMovies » Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:22 pm

Thank you very much for your kind words.
Johnsusername
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Re: Episode 14

Postby Johnsusername » Fri Dec 02, 2016 3:40 am

This is tied with the Season 2 opener and the final episode as my favourite of the whole show. I still remember watching it and that second half blowing me away. WOW. These moments elevate it from a great TV show to a GREAT TV show.
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Thatfabulousalien
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Re: Episode 14

Postby Thatfabulousalien » Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:17 am

I've been on a Twin Peaks marathon (6 episodes today), this being the last for the night. The ending with Leland/Bob killing Maddy made me start crying.
Once you're emotionally invested it really hurts inside.


I think part of what adds to the effect of this ending is that the last few episodes have been getting more humorous, like Gordon (played ly Lynch himself). There are certain really dark moments, like Harold's death but Leo being in a coma and similar situations seem to lighten the situation up, which really makes the ending powerful in a dark and scary way.
Aerozhul
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Re: Episode 14

Postby Aerozhul » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:20 pm

I first saw this episode when it aired on ABC in the late fall of 1990 (I think it was mid-November). I've often described the ending of this as the scariest thing I've ever seen on network television, especially as a 13-year-old. On this rewatch, my 12-year-old daughter has been watching the series with me (her first viewing). I had hyped this episode not just as the killer reveal one, but also as "the scariest thing I ever saw on TV when I was your age". I was really curious if she would think it was scary, or if in the context of 2017 (with stuff like Walking Dead common fare on TV) she would laugh it off.

Needless to say, she was pretty scared by it. So scared that she insisted on having the dog sleep in her room with her. I heard her gasp when we first see BOB in the mirror, then saw her pulling her blanket over her head during the actual murder.

Feeling a little guilty as maybe I shouldn't have had her watch this....though I know full well that she would have insisted having watched 13 episodes prior. One thing I will say - no way I let her watch FWWM until she's a bit older.

Back to the episode - one of my favorites of the whole series and about as close to perfect as it can get. Hard to decide if this is better than the final episode of Season 2....I go back and forth on that.

All the talk about the murder scene being written with Ben as the killer - was that actually shot, and is there footage of it anywhere? Did the murder take place at the Palmer house, or at the Great Northern, or somewhere else? Really intrigued by this....
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Gabriel
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Re: Episode 14

Postby Gabriel » Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:45 pm

Just watched this again in my pre-season three rewatch.

It's a masterful episode showing Lynch 100 per cent in control of his craft. The shot at the beginning works almost as a homage to Hitchcock as it pans across images of Sheryl Lee growing up, ending at the record player, presaging the introduction of Maddie's death scene. A whole life in one shot.

The episode packs in a massive amount of plot yet never feels cluttered. It's interesting in retrospect because I remember the sense of impatience I felt on first UK broadcast knowing it was to be the ’killer reveal' episode. I began to wonder how Coop was going to get to Maddy, given the minutes were running out. My parents were going to watch the episode on Betamax later in the evening, because they had friends over. When I walked out of my bedroom, my Mum said she thought I looked disappointed. It wasn't that exactly. Disappointed Cooper didn't win. Traumatised because I had a bit of a crush on Maddy. Grossed out because the things I had read in Laura's diary were upsetting enough already, but were now attributable to her quirky, oddball, traumatised dad whom we'd all come to like. It made me reassess what I knew about the whole show so far. The murder scene is utterly punishing. The viewer's impatience is punished, the viewer is scarred. The older I get, the harder I find the scene to watch, in the same way Dickens found it harder to read out loud Bill Sykes murder of Nancy.

Watching it tonight, I've found myself wishing Twin Peaks had been allowed to have shorter seasons and that this episode had been the finale of a shorter season two that finished on number 14. It would have gone down as one of the greatest ends of season ever put on TV. And, perhaps with a break between seasons, the third season could have gone somewhere better.

The weakness of the reveal this early in the show's life is, of course, obvious. It was said that Laura had secrets. Secrets. Secrets plural. Leland/BOB was a secret. In a long-running show where the secrets of the town were revealed, piece by piece, there'd be a certain irony that seven seasons later, with Cooper's investigations having wrought havoc through the town, that the murderer was actually much closer to home. Unfortunately, the early reveal scales the death down to a smaller family abuse level of crime and absolves much of the town of responsibility for the darkness within it. Thus the show ceases to be one about the town in which no one is innocent and becomes the 'good ol' folks' of Twin Peaks versus nasty outsiders (Josie, Windom Earle, Eckhardt.)

I said a couple of years back that I'm not convinced Leland being revealed to be the killer to the audience necessarily meant he had to be revealed to the characters, but Leland/BOB was so depraved that I guess he had to get his comeuppance.

But the discovery of the secret diary seemed to be obvious as the basis of the story arc that should follow. If the first season and a half was 'Who killed Laura Palmer?' then the subsequent arc should be the 'Legacy of Laura Palmer' as the contents of the diary lead us into a new series of investigations.

But regardless of what's to come and what fails to come, the episode, shorn of the expectations of the reveal, is beautifully constructed and, as ever, Lynch pushes the emotions in performances to an extreme that, handled less competently, could be come parody.

That moment where Donna breaks down, as does Bobby, where the old man says he's so sorry is a kind of cathartic moment. It reveals the pain that has lingered in the town and among the characters since the pilot in a harsh, raw manner, underscored by the beauty of The World Spins, which is a heart-rending, despairing counterpoint to the hope espoused in Falling. The characters need that moment. We, the viewers, need that moment.

In a perfect world, where this episode ended season two, season three would have returned after the season break with an instrumental version of The World Spins as the theme tune and started a new, bold era for the show.

One of the best Twin Peaks episodes of the lot for me.
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Re: Episode 14

Postby Snailhead » Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:12 pm

Gabriel wrote:Just watched this again in my pre-season three rewatch.

It's a masterful episode showing Lynch 100 per cent in control of his craft. The shot at the beginning works almost as a homage to Hitchcock as it pans across images of Sheryl Lee growing up, ending at the record player, presaging the introduction of Maddie's death scene. A whole life in one shot.

The episode packs in a massive amount of plot yet never feels cluttered. It's interesting in retrospect because I remember the sense of impatience I felt on first UK broadcast knowing it was to be the ’killer reveal' episode. I began to wonder how Coop was going to get to Maddy, given the minutes were running out. My parents were going to watch the episode on Betamax later in the evening, because they had friends over. When I walked out of my bedroom, my Mum said she thought I looked disappointed. It wasn't that exactly. Disappointed Cooper didn't win. Traumatised because I had a bit of a crush on Maddy. Grossed out because the things I had read in Laura's diary were upsetting enough already, but were now attributable to her quirky, oddball, traumatised dad whom we'd all come to like. It made me reassess what I knew about the whole show so far. The murder scene is utterly punishing. The viewer's impatience is punished, the viewer is scarred. The older I get, the harder I find the scene to watch, in the same way Dickens found it harder to read out loud Bill Sykes murder of Nancy.

Watching it tonight, I've found myself wishing Twin Peaks had been allowed to have shorter seasons and that this episode had been the finale of a shorter season two that finished on number 14. It would have gone down as one of the greatest ends of season ever put on TV. And, perhaps with a break between seasons, the third season could have gone somewhere better.

The weakness of the reveal this early in the show's life is, of course, obvious. It was said that Laura had secrets. Secrets. Secrets plural. Leland/BOB was a secret. In a long-running show where the secrets of the town were revealed, piece by piece, there'd be a certain irony that seven seasons later, with Cooper's investigations having wrought havoc through the town, that the murderer was actually much closer to home. Unfortunately, the early reveal scales the death down to a smaller family abuse level of crime and absolves much of the town of responsibility for the darkness within it. Thus the show ceases to be one about the town in which no one is innocent and becomes the 'good ol' folks' of Twin Peaks versus nasty outsiders (Josie, Windom Earle, Eckhardt.)

I said a couple of years back that I'm not convinced Leland being revealed to be the killer to the audience necessarily meant he had to be revealed to the characters, but Leland/BOB was so depraved that I guess he had to get his comeuppance.

But the discovery of the secret diary seemed to be obvious as the basis of the story arc that should follow. If the first season and a half was 'Who killed Laura Palmer?' then the subsequent arc should be the 'Legacy of Laura Palmer' as the contents of the diary lead us into a new series of investigations.

But regardless of what's to come and what fails to come, the episode, shorn of the expectations of the reveal, is beautifully constructed and, as ever, Lynch pushes the emotions in performances to an extreme that, handled less competently, could be come parody.

That moment where Donna breaks down, as does Bobby, where the old man says he's so sorry is a kind of cathartic moment. It reveals the pain that has lingered in the town and among the characters since the pilot in a harsh, raw manner, underscored by the beauty of The World Spins, which is a heart-rending, despairing counterpoint to the hope espoused in Falling. The characters need that moment. We, the viewers, need that moment.

In a perfect world, where this episode ended season two, season three would have returned after the season break with an instrumental version of The World Spins as the theme tune and started a new, bold era for the show.

One of the best Twin Peaks episodes of the lot for me.


Fantastic post! You're right on the money about the Season 2's biggest problem being that there was no reason for it to have been 22 episodes.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Episode 14

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:00 am

To take this thread back to where Lost started it several years ago: The script that I found online actually DOESN'T feature Maddy's murder. Yes, it features Ben as Bob's host...but it ends just after the reveal, with Ben coming up behind Maddy, arms raised. This makes sense in the context of the script: Ben presumably kills Maddy off-screen long before the Roadhouse sequence, and is back in his office in time to be arrested. (No explanation for why Ben is in the Palmer house, however -- was anyone on the crew actually fooled by these shenanigans?) I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the actual murder scene was "scripted" only in the Eraserhead sense: conceptualized by Frost & DKL and blocked out in storyboards.

People have talked a lot about the disappointment/sadness/reality of another murder occurring on Coop's watch. For me, I like the fact that Coop isn't infallible. Slightly more problematic is the fact that the Log Lady takes him to the Roadhouse instead of the actual location where the crime is occurring. This works for me in the episode, but is poorly handled in the script: she says, "You must go to the Roadhouse. everything points that way." When asked why, she says, (re: the Log), "It won't say. But it insists." IMO, the Log and Margaret should always present a unified front. But in Frost's script, it seems as though the Log is deliberately withholding information from her, and is sending Coop off on a fool's errand by implying that something big is about to go down at the Roadhouse. The dialogue as shot is a big improvement: Margaret and the Log are on the same page and admit a degree of ignorance ("We don't know what will happen or when"), and their reason for sending Coop to the Roadhouse is legitimate albeit misguided: they sense that there are Owls there. The episode makes it seem like the spirits are manipulating the Log to distract Coop (making the Giant's motives a bit suspect), which is far better than the scripted version.
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Re: Episode 14

Postby claaa7 » Thu May 11, 2017 12:34 am

just revisited this episode and i must say that this might very well take the spot as my favorite all-time episode of Twin Peaks. it is truly a high piece of art in my eyes, it's really cinematic and has a lot of visual flair while having a very strong storytelling backbone. each scene is perfection and hold up on their own as mini dramas that also forms a cohessive whole. Mark Frost writing and Lynch directing always brings out everything that is essential Twin Peaks at its core, these episodes always stand above anything else.

there's so much to say about this chapter of the series. just look at how well the opening scenes before the first commercial break works together, in an almost operatic fashion.

the scene with Gerrard, Cooper and Truman looking for "suspects" in the lobby at the Great Northern while some bizarre convent of tennis ball bouncing sailors stroll around in formations of two and three is truly absurd. i love the cutbacks from this chaotic gathering to the empty hallways where Ben Horne is walking, and especially when he arrives and Gerrard collapses. the sound mix together with the image of the oblivious sailors bouncing their balls while the one-amer lays on the floor screaming and Ben is trying to figure out what the hell is going on there.. and then Lynch cuts to a really high angle, like an angelic POV looking down on all the madness as Ron Garcia described in that FWWM cinematographer interview.

Hawk entering Harold Smith's apartment while the beautiful "Harold's Theme" is playing and we see Hawk's reaction cutting to that Lynchian image of Smith's lower half body hanging through the glass window surrounded by orchids.

it's interesting to note that in the script Philip Gerard as MIKE accompanies Coop and the gang to Smith's apartment.. Lynch made a wise choice of having Hawk enter the apartment alone to find Smith dead while the comotion at the Great Northern takes place and then we return to the scene later as Cooper and Truman arrives at the scene. i love those flashbulb cuts that Lynch uses in this scene as well.

one scene i like very much that you don't see mentioned all that often is the scene with Tojamura and Pete, which builds beautifully on the hilarious scene in the previous episode ("i find adherence to fantasy... troubling.. and unreasonable"). it's a joy to see Jack Nance here, what an amazing actor with facial expressions and body language, of course his voice and intonations were just ace as well. some of the other directors would probably make this into a pretty silly scene, but in Lynch's hand it builds up a sense of tension and mystery at first. especially as we only see a dark character sneaking about in the shadows at first. then that tension builds into laughter as Tojamura smooches it out and Pete's "LISTEN HERE BUSTER!!!".. what's really beautiful is the tenderness of Catherine and Pete's reunion however. really a scene with a lot of range, and on top of that it looks really beautiful.


another thing that makes this episode really stand out is the inclusion of several new substantial musical themes for the first time in a while.. the Shelley/Leo/Bobby scene is the most "regular" of the episode but as it is entirely set to the brilliant new Badalamenti piece "New Shoes" it still stands out and becomes very moody and omnious. then there's of course the Julee Cruise music during the end scene, and perhaps most importantly the decision NOT to use any music in the murder scene.. instead the sound of a LP player stuck at the silent groove becomes extremely haunting and does wonders for the scene.

there's a lot more to say but i got to go so that's it for now :)
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Re: Episode 14

Postby Jonah » Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:15 am

My all-time favourite episode next to 29. I wonder if there's any fans out there who DON'T consider 14 and 29 (along with the Pilot and maybe 2, 8, and 9) as the best episodes of the lot. But 14 is right up there.

I've written about this one before - and lots of people have written about this one - so probably not too much to add on this latest rewatch.

The opening sequence with all the men standing with coffee and donuts in the Sheriff's Station is great - and possibly a bit of sleight of hand manipulation, luring the viewer in to think they might be getting a lighter episode. It's set up almost like one of the funnier episodes, but as we know this episode will get progressively darker and more disturbing as it goes on.

The sequence in the Great Nothern is great - but it's still being played almost tongue-in-cheek. Despite the seriousness of the search for Bob, this could almost be considered a funny sequence.

I love how Ben is really being set up to be the killer here, from the moment he walks in and the one-armed man freaks out to lots of later scenes in this episode, all pointing at him being the killer. It's almost too much - and too on the nose - but I wonder if it fooled anyone into thinking it WAS him. (Some of this might have fooled the cast/crew too as we now know Ben did film a sequence where he killed Maddy.)

Hawk finding Harold is very eerie.

The next scene is one that really stood out to me in this latest rewatch. Opening in the Palmer's sitting room on the painting of Missoula, Montana and the slow pan along the mantelpiece, while we hear the Palmers and Maddy speaking, interspersed with the old-fashioned "What a Wonderful World" song, and the cozy setting of Maddy sitting between Sarah and Leland on the couch. And a glimpse of the record player too. This is just a wonderful scene, and once you know what's going to happen, it's almost unbearable tense and sad and eerie. Just so effective on so many levels and beautifully shot. It's really a haunting scene in retrospect.

Interesting how Hawk finds the secret diary and its ripped up pages here - and so many years later will find more missing pages in The Return.

The Audrey/Ben scene is powerful. "Did you kill her?" Notice how Ben doesn't answer, he just says he loved her. Another scene pointing to him maybe being the killer.

The Shelly/Bob/Leo stuff is all well done, but almost a distraction here in this episode. I didn't focus on them especially, though I find the Norma/Shelly scene in the diner to be quite moving and well done.

The Nadine stuff is a little better here too. Probably because Lynch is directing. Having the glass break in her hand is very Lynch somehow. It gives an ominous note to the otherwise silly plot, much like how when she wakes up in Episode 29 it gives that story an ominous tone too.

The Audrey/Cooper scene is great too - and I like seeing Coop examining the diary and its ripped up pages.

Two scenes of Ben being arrested and brought to the Sheriff's Station is intercut with the first glimpse of Sarah's hand as she crawls down the stairs. Very eerie.

I love the Log Lady scene here too. "There are owls in the roadhouse." Was she sensing the Giant?

I love the Catherine/Fumio reveal. The moonlight on Peter's face, the shot of the moon itself, the dark shadows. It's all played wonderfully. This could have been extremely silly or as bad as mid-Season 2 but somehow it just works so well. Down to Lynch again.

And then we get to the scenes this whole episode has been building up to.....

The roadhouse and the Palmer house.

Until Episode 29, I don't think there's been such a perfect sequence of scenes. It almost defies a review. It all works so beautifully, from Donna and James talking about Harold, Julee Cruise singing on the stage, Bobby and the waiter at the bar, and Harry, Coop, and the Log Lady sitting at the table together. These scenes in the roadhouse are powerful enough - haunting and beautiful and so poignant and sad too.

And as for Maddy's murder. How did something so disturbing and powerful ever air on TV back in 1991? I first saw it as a kid and it left a powerful and disturbing reaction on me that made me a fan of the show ever since.

There's not much to add to that scene, other than to show it's stunningly shot, completely disturbing and horrifying.

The closing scene in the roadhouse is amazing, the music, Donna crying, and the red curtains closing behind and over Cooper excellent foreshadowing of what is to come when he steps into the lodge.
Actually, now that some time has passed, I like "The full blossom of the evening".

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