Episode 27

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Audrey Horne
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Re: Episode 27

Postby Audrey Horne » Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:00 pm

I assume you already know there was a voiceover by Kimmy Robertson at the end, right?

Have no idea if the announcement was in the trade papers or the NY Times, etc. And since there wasn't google headlines, it's hard to tell.

I know it was in my local tv guide paper for that week that Peaks would be pulling the last two. However, I can't remember if that was before or after I saw the show. I say that because I remember being excited when Lucy's narrative came on stating the two hour finale would be June 10th, and I thought she meant there were two more ADDITIONAL episodes. I know it was the following morning, I was saddened. So either it was announced and I never paid attention or it came over officially on the AP wire.
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Re: Episode 27

Postby LostInTheMovies » Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:40 pm

Audrey Horne wrote:I assume you already know there was a voiceover by Kimmy Robertson at the end, right?


I finally discovered that on the blu-ray! But I'm just wondering if it was far enough ahead that they would have had time to re-shoot/edit the ending of ep. 27 to make it more essentially a teaser for the last two. But then again, it's already kind of reads that way in the script so probably wouldn't have been necessary. The only thing they might have needed to re-shoot for was the red curtains and according to the call sheets you posted for ep. 29 that could've been done as early as mid-March.
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Re: Episode 27

Postby Audrey Horne » Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:46 pm

No, I don't think so. I think those last two episodes were ready to go in the next two weeks. They just got pulled and shelved until the ABC season was over to be burned off in the summer. I think they were all done. Actors and production gone. Just waiting to see if they were picked up or not.
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Re: Episode 27

Postby LostInTheMovies » Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:28 pm

Audrey Horne wrote:No, I don't think so. I think those last two episodes were ready to go in the next two weeks. They just got pulled and shelved until the ABC season was over to be burned off in the summer. I think they were all done. Actors and production gone. Just waiting to see if they were picked up or not.


Yeah, and come to think of it why would they spend time and money to refashion the end of an episode, making it more dramatic, when they'd just basically heard that they were getting cancelled?

As far as the curtains though, I do wonder if at the time Gyllenhaal shot his episode it was basically understood what Lynch was going to do with the finale (I mean they did have to construct that set after all). Because the Red Room is such a brief "character" in the original script for ep. 29, it would have been a strange little teaser to end ep. 27 that way.
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Re: Episode 27

Postby Audrey Horne » Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:45 pm

I meant that all the episodes were most likely ready to go by the time episode 27 aired. So there would be no need to further tinker with its ending regardless if it aired in June or at its regular intended week. They would already know what Lynch did with his episode and would have been corrected or altered if they needed to.

Does that make sense?
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Re: Episode 27

Postby LostInTheMovies » Wed Mar 11, 2015 11:34 pm

Audrey Horne wrote:They would already know what Lynch did with his episode and would have been corrected or altered if they needed to.


Oh no I agree now (although I initially wasn't sure): if there were any changes made to the episode they must have been made way back in early March and likely had nothing at all to do with the next two episodes being combined for a finale.

As far as the curtains matching Lynch's episode, it seems like there are basically three options: 1) Gyllenhaal did NOT shoot the red curtains in the pool (or intend for them to appear there) but a re-shoot was requested once Lynch switched the Black Lodge entirely to the Red Room, 2) Gyllenhaal DID include the red curtains originally, but only because he already knew Lynch was planning to shoot the Black Lodge as the Red Room, 3) Gyllenhaal DID include the red curtains, but it was his own idea and he had no clue Lynch was going to use the Red Room as the Lodge, it was just a coincidence.

I lean toward #2, because I'd imagine by the time they shot ep. 27 Lynch was having the new Red Room set constructed and so it was understood that this was going to be the Black Lodge. (On a separate note, the scripted ep. 29 would have been quite the ambitious/expensive shoot...)

This is essentially the minutia to end all minutia lol, but what can I say...
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Re: Episode 27

Postby Dalai Cooper » Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:36 am

Parts of this episode are among the best bits of TP; love how the director imbues so many scenes with this eerie dread, this wrongness. Unfortunately, a couple of things really bug me: as ever, the prolix Windom Earle, about as "menacing" as Dick Tremayne; and even more irritatingly, a fully lobotomized Cooper. Like I get that he's supposed to be taking his eye off the ball as a result of being wrapped up in his feelings for Annie, but surely there was a less ridiculous way of portraying this than the unintentionally hilarious scene where, after Annie makes the decision to enter the contest, Cooper's supernatural guide appears and literally mouths the word "NO" while gesticulating in the most emphatic way possible, and Cooper looks troubled for about half a second before basically going "welp, I'm sure that won't come to anything, better just carry on as we were." Nnggh!
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Re: Episode 27

Postby Jonah » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:06 am

LostInTheMovies wrote:
Audrey Horne wrote:They would already know what Lynch did with his episode and would have been corrected or altered if they needed to.


Oh no I agree now (although I initially wasn't sure): if there were any changes made to the episode they must have been made way back in early March and likely had nothing at all to do with the next two episodes being combined for a finale.

As far as the curtains matching Lynch's episode, it seems like there are basically three options: 1) Gyllenhaal did NOT shoot the red curtains in the pool (or intend for them to appear there) but a re-shoot was requested once Lynch switched the Black Lodge entirely to the Red Room, 2) Gyllenhaal DID include the red curtains originally, but only because he already knew Lynch was planning to shoot the Black Lodge as the Red Room, 3) Gyllenhaal DID include the red curtains, but it was his own idea and he had no clue Lynch was going to use the Red Room as the Lodge, it was just a coincidence.

I lean toward #2, because I'd imagine by the time they shot ep. 27 Lynch was having the new Red Room set constructed and so it was understood that this was going to be the Black Lodge. (On a separate note, the scripted ep. 29 would have been quite the ambitious/expensive shoot...)

This is essentially the minutia to end all minutia lol, but what can I say...



I agree with you. I think #2 is very likely. And yeah, the scripted 29 would have required more of a budget, I'd assume, and possibly a lot more special effects, and I don't know...I think it would have turned out dreadfully. I like the idea of a ghostly Great Northern, but all the rest of it, especially Bob as a dentist...ugh.


Dalai Cooper wrote:Parts of this episode are among the best bits of TP; love how the director imbues so many scenes with this eerie dread, this wrongness. Unfortunately, a couple of things really bug me: as ever, the prolix Windom Earle, about as "menacing" as Dick Tremayne; and even more irritatingly, a fully lobotomized Cooper. Like I get that he's supposed to be taking his eye off the ball as a result of being wrapped up in his feelings for Annie, but surely there was a less ridiculous way of portraying this than the unintentionally hilarious scene where, after Annie makes the decision to enter the contest, Cooper's supernatural guide appears and literally mouths the word "NO" while gesticulating in the most emphatic way possible, and Cooper looks troubled for about half a second before basically going "welp, I'm sure that won't come to anything, better just carry on as we were." Nnggh!


Ha ha. Yeah. As much as I love that sequence with the giant appearing on the stage, just as I loved his appearance on the stage in the roadhouse in 14, it is foolish that Cooper ignores it. You can almost feel him going "hmmm....oh well" in that moment. It's stupid, but I overlook it because I like the sequence in general. It's just a pity he didn't talk Annie out of it in the next episode, culminating in Audrey being taken instead, and then we would have seen Audrey in the Red Room. And that would have been divine!
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Re: Episode 27

Postby Colonel Cooper » Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:33 pm

I've yet to watch all of this episode - don't suppose I ever will.
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Re: Episode 27

Postby OK,Bob » Fri May 22, 2015 4:12 am

(The Giant's belt-buckle resembles an owl.)
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Re: Episode 27

Postby FauxOwl » Sun Jun 21, 2015 4:43 pm

I just rewatched the series (getting a friend caught up for the new series). It's probably been 15 years since I've actually watched every episode like that. This episode really stood out among the non Lynch directed episodes... I agree with others that it had the best examples of non Lynch TP weirdness. The final montage as others have mentioned.... but also the shaking hands bit
.. which on this viewing, mostly because of the similar musical hit, seemed associated with Ben's random surprised look back in his office. Those are probably my favorite non Lynch moments in the series.
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Re: Episode 27

Postby Jasper » Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:15 pm

A number of posts back, Jonah wrote:

Jonah wrote:Also love the eerie scene when the camera slowly pan backs as Cooper and Annie talk in the diner, culminating in the shattered plates and that close-up shot of syrup or coffee (or syrup-like coffee) dripping like blood.


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Image

As I've already said, this incident is clearly a premonition for Coop and Annie, or at least foreshadowing for the viewer. It seems to tell of the disaster that results from Cooper being distracted by love (as happened with Caroline), which is also suggested by Cooper ignoring the warning of the Giant while he's with Annie.

Going back to what Jonah wrote, it's always seemed a little strange that the syrup-like substance seems to be dripping out of a coffee cup rather than some kind of syrup dispenser. Then I realized how similar this is the moment in episode 29 when Cooper pours out the cup of syrupy coffee (in between the liquid and solid state), to which the LMFAP reacts with "Wow, Bob, wow."

copper_coffee_syrup.gif
copper_coffee_syrup.gif (202.84 KiB) Viewed 3975 times


There's a brief analysis of the episode 29 on yt (posted below), which discusses the three states of the coffee, and comes to the conclusion that the syrupy in-between state coffee is an indication that BOB, through fear, will trap Cooper in the lodge, the lodge being the in-between state, AKA "between two worlds," thus eliciting the reaction of the LMFAP. Of course the syrupy coffee in both instances is much like the oil in the jar from earlier in episode 29, and the oil in the oil pool portal, which is also round and even boasts a white rim.

This puts the syrupy substance dripping from the cup in episode 27 in an even more ominous light.

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Re: Episode 27

Postby LostInTheMovies » Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:17 pm

Jasper wrote:A number of posts back, Jonah wrote:

Jonah wrote:Also love the eerie scene when the camera slowly pan backs as Cooper and Annie talk in the diner, culminating in the shattered plates and that close-up shot of syrup or coffee (or syrup-like coffee) dripping like blood.


premonition_dbl_combo.jpg


Image

As I've already said, this incident is clearly a premonition for Coop and Annie, or at least foreshadowing for the viewer. It seems to tell of the disaster that results from Cooper being distracted by love (as happened with Caroline), which is also suggested by Cooper ignoring the warning of the Giant while he's with Annie.

Going back to what Jonah wrote, it's always seemed a little strange that the syrup-like substance seems to be dripping out of a coffee cup rather than some kind of syrup dispenser. Then I realized how similar this is the moment in episode 29 when Cooper pours out the cup of syrupy coffee (in between the liquid and solid state), to which the LMFAP reacts with "Wow, Bob, wow."

copper_coffee_syrup.gif


There's a brief analysis of the episode 29 on yt (posted below), which discusses the three states of the coffee, and comes to the conclusion that the syrupy in-between state coffee is an indication that BOB, through fear, will trap Cooper in the lodge, the lodge being the in-between state, AKA "between two worlds," thus eliciting the reaction of the LMFAP. Of course the syrupy coffee in both instances is much like the oil in the jar from earlier in episode 29, and the oil in the oil pool portal, which is also round and even boasts a white rim.

This puts the syrupy substance dripping from the cup in episode 27 in an even more ominous light.



This is wild. Lynch REALLY seems to have taken note of this episode, in a way he didn't with almost any other. Of course, there was more to take note of.

I wonder if Gyllenhaal realizes how much he may have contributed to the larger mythology with his whims. (Tim Hunter too, to a lesser extent, with the white face paint of ep. 28.)
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Re: Episode 27

Postby David Locke » Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:21 pm

Would it be too much of a stretch to link the "shattered dishes" in the diner discussed above with the shattered dishes edit in MD that brings us from Adam's dinner party to Diane with the hitman at Winkie's...?
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Twin Peaks Out of Order #20: Episode 27

Postby LostInTheMovies » Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:39 pm

Re-watching Twin Peaks from my least favorite to favorite episode...

Previously: Episode 26 (http://www.dugpa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=42966#p42966)

We are now reaching the ceiling of what Twin Peaks is capable of in its post-Lynch, post-Laura episodes (two exceptions from this stretch remain: both involve Lynch in some capacity, and one involves Laura). Tedious late-season baggage like Lana Milford and especially John Justice Wheeler keep this one from completely soaring, but 27 does contain many striking moments. And the distinctive Twin Peaks mythology is finally coalescing, a fusion of the early show's sense of psychic dread with the late show's cosmic world-building. Desiring to evoke the old Lynchian spirit, director Stephen Gyllenhaal improvised a number of moments that weren't in the script: Andy crying at another crime scene, the mysterious trembling hands of the townspeople, Ben whipping his head around as a supernatural tingling emerges on the soundtrack, Pete calling to Josie in the wooden walls of the Great Northern, and of course the climactic montage of familiar yet eerily empty locations - a tantalizing harbinger of the momentous conclusion to come (this episode actually does a stronger job than 28 of setting up the finale). Perhaps nothing better signifies Gyllenhaal's Lynchian touch than the way he approaches Cooper's and Annie's conversation in the diner. On page, this is yet another quirky exchange stuffed with romantic overtures and geeky non sequiturs ("Heisenberg!"). But Gyllenhaal adds a sense of dread as the camera pulls back slowly. Somehow the openness of the frame makes the duo seem more threatened than would ordinary horror-film claustrophobia. Crashing plates interrupt their kiss; cut to an extreme, slow-motion close-up of goopy coffee dripping out of its saucer. Aside from his unquestionably silly horse costume, Windom Earle is on-point this episode. The black turtleneck with soiled black FBI jacket is a far better look for him than longjohns and flute. My favorite scene this time, even more than those Twin Peaks-is-back! moments at the end, might be Windom's black-and-white video, ostensibly from his Project Blue Book days in the 60s. The off-kilter close-up of his stuttering lecture conveys more menace than a dozen episodes' florid monologues. Episode 27 is late Twin Peaks firing on all cylinders: woodsy esoteric lore, unhinged Windom Earle intrigue, and bustling town activity. But there's still something fundamental missing here: the mystery that ties all the disparate strands together, the small-town tragedy in which the otherworldly terror is rooted, the open-ended question hanging over the mundane everyday events. It has often been said of the series that its central question was a red herring, that really the show was all about the community, just using the homecoming queen’s murder to introduce us to this world. And yet even the weakest of those earlier episodes have something the best of the late-season episodes don't. That incongruous portrait under every late-series episode reminds us of what’s missing. Finally, eleven entries into this rewatch, we are about to explore the hidden, haunted aspect of Twin Peaks. Who killed Laura Palmer? The next episode on this list opens with an oblique answer to that question, though we can't know this the first time we see it.

Next: Episode 11 (http://www.dugpa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=43459#p43459)
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