Episode 29

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cowwithfivelegs
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Re: Episode 29

Postby cowwithfivelegs » Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:33 pm

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Last edited by cowwithfivelegs on Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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David Locke
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Re: Episode 29

Postby David Locke » Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:58 pm

cowwithfivelegs wrote:
David Locke wrote:Just a thought I had: Why do so many people assume that when Laura tells Coop in this episode "I'll see you in 25 years" that she's literally saying she will see him in 25 years from that moment, i.e. 2015/2016 or whatever? Isn't it fairly obvious that in saying that, she's referring to Coop's first Red Room dream where he is indeed about 25 years older? So Laura does see him 25 years later -- it already happened. Time doesn't work in the lodges/red room the way it works in the real world (whether ours or that of the show); I see no reason to take Laura's line as a literal pronouncement based off of linear time.


Lynch/Frost have already said that the line was their way back in for the new season.

Huh. I must have forgot that. Makes sense then. But I wonder if the other interpretation is intentional too.
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laughingpinecone
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Re: Episode 29

Postby laughingpinecone » Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:33 am

David Locke wrote:
cowwithfivelegs wrote:
David Locke wrote:Just a thought I had: Why do so many people assume that when Laura tells Coop in this episode "I'll see you in 25 years" that she's literally saying she will see him in 25 years from that moment, i.e. 2015/2016 or whatever? Isn't it fairly obvious that in saying that, she's referring to Coop's first Red Room dream where he is indeed about 25 years older? So Laura does see him 25 years later -- it already happened. Time doesn't work in the lodges/red room the way it works in the real world (whether ours or that of the show); I see no reason to take Laura's line as a literal pronouncement based off of linear time.


Lynch/Frost have already said that the line was their way back in for the new season.

Huh. I must have forgot that. Makes sense then. But I wonder if the other interpretation is intentional too.

I would think so, it's such a clear reference within the context of the original series!
Thinking about the continuation, I used to take it to mean that something would happen in the red room right after the 'dream scene' that would jumpstart the events of the new season. But recent book news seem to hint at things not being that straightforward... what with the 2016 setting and Mark Frost strongly implying that he can in fact count to 25, there may be a 2-year gap between '25 years later' and whatever catalyst sets things in motion. Mysteries.
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Thatfabulousalien
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Re: Episode 29

Postby Thatfabulousalien » Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:57 pm

Wow, what an ending. So Lynchian (with David directing it again). I'm so pumped for season 3 now. :shock:
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Thatfabulousalien
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Re: Episode 29

Postby Thatfabulousalien » Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:28 pm

I can't help think that the "I'll see you in 25 years" is somehow intentionally related to Season three, can't he coincidental
NewtoTwinPeaks
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Re: Episode 29

Postby NewtoTwinPeaks » Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:52 pm

I think the 25 years was related to one of the dream scenes from Season 1 where Cooper is sitting with Laura and he looks much older, about 25 years older, but I can't remember if they mention the exact number in the show.
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Re: Episode 29

Postby laughingpinecone » Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:39 am

NewtoTwinPeaks wrote:I think the 25 years was related to one of the dream scenes from Season 1 where Cooper is sitting with Laura and he looks much older, about 25 years older, but I can't remember if they mention the exact number in the show.

They do! In the international pilot, there's "25 years later" on a black screen. In the show, Cooper mentions it when he narrates his dream in the following episode.

We know from Frost that it wasn't intentional.

My pet theory is that Lynch picked that number because it added up to his lucky 7. Could've been 16 years later instead, could've been 34 or 43. The fact that it's a perfect 5x5 probably helped. No matter the reasoning, we're lucky he picked that perfect middle ground, not too early for the TV landscape to be receptive to the project, not too late for most people involved...
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Jerry Horne
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Re: Episode 29

Postby Jerry Horne » Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:34 am

It's rather fun thinking of Norma and Shelly goofing off after Annie has been kidnapped. Almost as if she never existed.
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David Locke
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Re: Episode 29

Postby David Locke » Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:48 pm

Jerry Horne wrote:It's rather fun thinking of Norma and Shelly goofing off after Annie has been kidnapped. Almost as if she never existed.

It's weird when you think about it, but it actually doesn't impact the episode at all for me. Lynch has a ton of "continuity errors" in his episodes, or things which don't connect with what's been shown previously. But it's as if he's some master magician who makes such prosaic details not matter by the sheer formal power of the sleight of hand he pulls.
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Jerry Horne
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Re: Episode 29

Postby Jerry Horne » Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:07 am

David Locke wrote:
Jerry Horne wrote:It's rather fun thinking of Norma and Shelly goofing off after Annie has been kidnapped. Almost as if she never existed.

It's weird when you think about it, but it actually doesn't impact the episode at all for me. Lynch has a ton of "continuity errors" in his episodes, or things which don't connect with what's been shown previously. But it's as if he's some master magician who makes such prosaic details not matter by the sheer formal power of the sleight of hand he pulls.


Agreed. I never noticed any of the things that people point out today. California trees, Norma and Shelly after the kidnapping etc. I was so wrapped up in the mystery and the storyline, I guess my mind wasn't worrying about what I considered the small stuff at the time.
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Gabriel
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Re: Episode 29

Postby Gabriel » Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:04 pm

I always felt Lynch would show up like a big rock being chucked into a still pond and the rest of the show's team would spend the next several episodes recalibrating to compensate for whatever curveballs he'd thrown into the series.

His episodes always feel like they're set in a slightly parallel universe from the rest of the series. If you take Lynch's episodes out of the mix and place them on their own, they make their own strange kind of sense, separate from those of all the other directors.
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David Locke
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Re: Episode 29

Postby David Locke » Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:47 pm

Gabriel wrote:I always felt Lynch would show up like a big rock being chucked into a still pond and the rest of the show's team would spend the next several episodes recalibrating to compensate for whatever curveballs he'd thrown into the series.

His episodes always feel like they're set in a slightly parallel universe from the rest of the series. If you take Lynch's episodes out of the mix and place them on their own, they make their own strange kind of sense, separate from those of all the other directors.

Right - it's like Lynch was making episodes on his own timeline, his own path that was slightly separate from the rest of the series. What's also interesting is how Lynch managed to transform the weaker material into something compelling, as with Nadine's scenes in Ep 14 and 29. As a result it sometimes felt like we were watching two different shows, the Twin Peaks as seen thru DL's eyes and the Twin Peaks as seen thru an assortment of other writers and directors.
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Rudagger
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Re: Episode 29

Postby Rudagger » Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:18 am

Never noticed that almost trance like state Annie and Coop get put into when approaching Glastonbury ("Harry, I have to go on alone"), almost like the Lodge is already starting to possess Coop (he just stops dead, his entire body stiffens up .. it feels very 'final scene' Coop).

The Nadine stuff has pathos again. It's actually pretty sad when she wakes up.

Donna crying her eyes out saying "You're my daddy, you're my daddy" is heartbreaking.

As others in this thread have said, Lynch really elevates the material, and gets the best performances out of his actors .. and the right tone! The only decision I don't really like is the over-the-top silly headbandages on Nadine/Mike (though I love the intro to the master shot, cutting to black as Ed walks out .. even if him and Norma being so nonchalant feels odd, as others have pointed out). Similarly, the bomb in the safe is ACME levels of prop-design, maybe because Lynch just really didn't care about those plots?

If Truman doesn't appear in the new season, you can't blame the character for having gone mad or AWOL or committing suicide or who knows what after finally seeing the mystical stuff Coop always talked about. Ontkean doesn't get a lot to do in this episode, but, he's great in it. Even just sitting there on a log staring off at the place Coop vanished. God, I'll miss the Coop/Truman dynamic.

God, the music in the Black Lodge! One of the things I'm most excited about for the upcoming season is the music, moreso even than Baldalementi's (bad spelling probably) score, is all the wonderful musicians he has lined up (if Sharon Van Etten plays a song during the show, I'll die).

In general, just bringing the whole story full circle by having Coop literally walk into his dream is just perfect. So glad the literalism of the Frost/Peyton/Engels (was it all three?) was torn out by Lynch.

Similarly, the little reprise of the Bobby/Shelly scene, really just gives a weird time-loop vibe (especially when you consider that Fire Walk With Me, if watched in order of release, is what comes next which includes Coop/Annie trying to do some time finagling ..). It almost feels like you just jumped back in time and it's kickstarting a new series of events, when combined with all the completely non-reaction people have to the proceeding events (even Major Briggs is in tip-top shape). I

Other thoughts;

As over convoluted the Packard mill storyline got, I always quite enjoyed Andrew Packard. He was pretty likeable.
Good on Lynch to bring back some of the characters who went missing on the show (Palmers, Ronette .. even if it feels a bit odd how Hawk just has her on hand, surprised the One-Armed Man didn't show up, given how weird his exit in the series is [was the implication at the time that he died? they never really say])
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Twin Peaks Podcast
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Re: Episode 29

Postby Twin Peaks Podcast » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:42 am

Hey all. Just released a audio commentary for this episode featuring 3 Twin Peaks experts. (Josh Eisenstadt, Brad Dukes and Scott Ryan) Previously we've done audio commentaries for every Lynch directed episode.

http://twinpeakspodcast.blogspot.ca/201 ... ntary.html

I'd say if you've seen the episode enough times, you can listen to this without watching along to the episode of the show.
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Re: Episode 29

Postby djerdap » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:28 am

Twin Peaks Podcast wrote:Hey all. Just released a audio commentary for this episode featuring 3 Twin Peaks experts. (Josh Eisenstadt, Brad Dukes and Scott Ryan) Previously we've done audio commentaries for every Lynch directed episode.

http://twinpeakspodcast.blogspot.ca/201 ... ntary.html

I'd say if you've seen the episode enough times, you can listen to this without watching along to the episode of the show.


Very interesting, thanks for that. Some cool insights, and I didn't know that Lynch deliberately edited the episode in a way that the Red Room stuff is not broken by commercials.

I do have to say I disagree with the "Windom Earle controls the doppelgangers" theory. The Lodge is its own entity and the doppelgangers (especially someone like Laura) could hardly be prone to the will of somebody who is clearly not up to the task, as Bob shows afterwards. Cooper confronts his demons in the Lodge - which includes being stabbed by Earle, which is one of many factors included in him being enslaved by his own fear. Windom's close-up after Laura screaming is for me just another aspect of that fear, and time and space doesn't work in the Lodge as it does in our world so this doesn't have to imply that Bad Laura is somehow controlled by Windom.

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