Episode 28

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Aerozhul
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Re: Episode 28

Postby Aerozhul » Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:23 am

teddyleevin wrote:
Aerozhul wrote:What I didn't like:
- Lana's stupid dance. Really, we had to watch this instead of some of the other girls? There was nothing about it that was sexy.


Just finished my re-watch, too. I was trying to decide my least favorite moment of the series. The wake and the weasel scene were contenders but they are so intensely fascinating and incongruous that I have to sort of appreciate them? I decided, unequivocally, that Lana's dance is the worst scene in the entire series. It could ALMOST be a joke. The dance is very bad (especially after Lucy's dance), it's completely unsexy as Aerozhul mentions. Contortions? None.

However, it's not UNSEXY ENOUGH to be effective. Truly, it's wasted screen-time. But maybe a good joke would be that Lana's dancing is so obviously terrible, but the men don't notice. It's sort of hinted at in Norma's reaction to the dance. Yes, the dance is terrible, but it's not clear if the show knows its terrible or if the show actually thinks its sexy.

It's also oppressively long and the music is simply terrible (compared to the other hilarious pageant music which is wonderful pastiche). God, I hate Lana and her storyline so much already, but this scene is truly the lowest moment.

Also... why does Coop clap like he's never clapped in his life? Those spread fingers....

On the side of the good, I absolutely agree about the strobelight ending. It rattled me to the core the first time I watched it but it's ONLY effective watching in a dark room as I just learned on re-watching.


Up until now, I totally missed that this "contortionistic" dance had no contortions! Good catch!

In TSHOTP, Mark Frost did some interesting things with the Lana character, which makes her at least a bit more bearable this go-round.....
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Re: Episode 28

Postby Esselgee » Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:15 pm

So Miss Twin Peaks was celebrating its 20th anniversary in this episode, I believe. Didn't Norma win Miss Twin Peaks 20 years earlier? So I guess she won the first one. Aren't Norma, Ed, and Nadine all supposed to be the same age though? Nadine says she is 35 in the next episode (they seemed SO old when the series first aired...). I guess it's possible Norma was 15 or 16 when she won it, but everyone competing in this episode seems to be at least a senior in high school or older. Maybe this is covered in Frost's book. I'm still reading it.

How exactly did Windom Earle plant all those explosives in the Roadhouse and then create the strobe light effect also? What was the point of disguising himself as the Log Lady anyway? Going as some random dude would have been better. He just managed to become more suspicious since the real LL was there also. Also, most people in town are probably familiar enough with the LL to tell a fake one from the real one.
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Re: Episode 28

Postby Dalai Cooper » Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:18 pm

what can I say, that's windom earle for ya.

This episode really is one of the very worst, it's sorta amazing that it was broadcast with the mindblowing finale as a single movie
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Episode 28

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sat May 13, 2017 7:23 pm

Just finished this one in my rewatch. I'll try to keep my comments targeted to the specific episode, but to some extent they are going to wander more broadly to the fascinatingly frustrating (or is it the reverse?) Episode 17-28 stretch of the show that I'm putting to bed for the last time before DKL re-takes the reigns 20-odd years later and changes everything we think we know about TP.

First thing first: the concept of a beauty pageant unironically acting as a season-climax event on a show that started with the rape and murder of a homecoming queen is thematically tone deaf. It really acts as the perfect summing-up of how much the show derailed (LostInTheMovies has nicely pointed out how the "wrapped in plastic" dance motif highlights this -- unintentionally, IMO. Nothing about this stretch of the show indicates that the producers/writers were particularly self-aware about their choices). While I think, conceptually, Norma's idea of a small town healing from the aftermath of Laura's tragedy by parading high school students around in leotards has interesting sociological and narrative potential, the execution the show chose -- camp and glamour without a hint of self-awareness or judgment -- is about as big as missteps get. Also worthy of a place in the hall of shame: the remarkable turnaround from Ben unwittingly pawing his own daughter in a whorehouse to Ben begging her -- completely without irony or self awareness on the part of the character or the show -- to participate in an event centered around objectification of the female form. Ick.

Between the Lana "witchcraft" stuff and the beauty pageant, there's an uncomfortable theme in late season 2 of having "fun" with the male gaze (the frat boy-ish Pinkle stuff in this episode, for instance). Will is IMO the biggest casualty of this: seeing him mooning over Lana several episodes prior to this feels completely against his characterization to that point, and ditto him presiding over an event where his 18-year-old daughter is strutting around in a skimpy costume. I get that none of these characters is, or should be, a saint. I love DKL's choice in FWWM/TMP to imply that Will knew, on some intuitive level at least, about Leland's abuse of Laura (although I question whether that's consistent with everything we see on the show), because that character turn feels real and adds depth. By contrast, Will's vaguely sleazy behavior on the show is both inconsistent with his general characterization and boring.

Moving on. It struck me on this rewatch that the first shot of Pinkle pawing at the Log Lady, and the very irritated Margaret shoving him away, is the perfect metaphor for the frustrating nature of the second half of the series. I like Lander generally, but Pinkle irritates the hell out of me and is as good a talisman as any to personify the most awful, self-amused aspects of the show, while Log Lady is the embodiment of the show's marriage of mystery and comedy at its strongest (and Coulson, of course, is always a reminder of DKL's career and beginnings). I looked over this thread before posting and realized that LostInTheMovies already noted this, and expanded upon it by noting that the metaphor pays off when the Log Lady literally disappears and is replaced by Windom. Again, I simply can't believe that any of this was consciously intentional at this stage, but it's sure something.

Coop's line that they're combing the woods for Briggs drives me nuts, because it highlights the fact that HAVEN'T been combing the woods for Earle for the past week. They've known he's in the area since Erik Powell's corpse turned up, and he has repeatedly let them know that he hasn't gone far. Hawk found Jacques's cabin in an afternoon in Episode 5 -- why haven't they even tried to enact a dragnet for Earle? Instead, they play a leisurely chess game and read books on astrology while innocent people die and are threatened and kidnapped. Ugh.

Someone noted earlier in the thread that Earle's makeup is less terrifying on the Blu Ray. If nothing else, the makeup definitely calls attention to itself in high def: It's unevenly applied and clearly ends at his forehead, creating a "minstrel show" effect. I wonder if this was the intention, or if it was just a lazy makeup job because they figured no one would notice on a low-res broadcast where the viewer's eye would naturally be drawn to his eyes and teeth? It doesn't really detract from the scene for me, though: that shot still gives me shivers. If anything, it makes it oddly even more off-putting.

Windom, Windom. It's tough to think of any character this side of Deadwood's Al Swearengen who spends so much time monologuing to a mute audience (Earle to Leo, Al to his Indian head). Unfortunately, Earle doesn't have David Milch writing for him. Welsh and Gyllenhaal/Hunter do find a bit of a groove for the character in this episode and the prior one, making him about as effective as he ever gets (but, as if paying the piper, Earle-as-Log-Lady might be his nadir).

While Hunter thankfully restrains his use of Dutch angles this go-round, he does use what I believe to be the only two "wipe" scene transitions in all of TP. While they go by very quickly, I find them stylistically jarring. I assume he employed this technique due to the difficulty of expressing the passage of time between scenes set in the same location. I much prefer Hunter's more elegant solution to the same problem at the beginning of the episode, using a fade to black to show the passage of time between Leo releasing Briggs and Earle's arrival home.

Cooper's manic astrological ranting is one of the very rare moments in the show where MacLachlan's performance feels really off to me. It's sad in general how much Coop's character has lost his quirkiness: Marilyn & the Kennedys and giving yourself a gift are distant memories. Even his Diane messages at this point are all exposition and shoe leather.

It is kind of amusing that this episode spends so much time racing to the finish line, only for Lynch to completely change what the finish line is! The Lodge stuff works because DKL used it as a jumping-off point for all the great stuff in Episode 29 and FWWM, making the build-up retroactively more rewarding because it IS actually going somewhere. Imagine how exasperating all the New Age Jupiter-and-Saturn nonsense would be if it led to the anticlimactic scripted version of Episode 29.
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Re: Episode 28

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sat May 13, 2017 10:25 pm

LostInTheMovies wrote:To backtrack a little bit, I don't necessarily hate all the lines in that scene (I'm thinking more of the forest metaphor, which makes me cringe, than the dialogue you quote).


Be glad this gem from the script didn't make it onscreen: COOPER: "What I am feeling now has steamrollered every barrier I've ever, if you'll excuse the expression, erected." That might be the single worst line written for the original show. Although Annie's scripted "I am eager...and full of grace" later in the same scene just before they make love is also a decent contender for that honor.

(Notably, the "life's history" line is NOT in the script. Wonder where that came from? It feels so specific, wonder if it was Hunter or Graham's innovation?)
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Re: Episode 28

Postby Audrey Horne » Sun May 14, 2017 10:33 am

Bravo! Excellent post.

There is no way by any means,except having many of the same actors, is this the same world in which we saw a school principal get choked up while delivering the message of a student's death.
God, I love this music. Isn't it too dreamy?
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Re: Episode 28

Postby LostInTheMovies » Sun May 14, 2017 12:03 pm

I really like Barry Pullman's script for episode 12 too. It's like everyone was just burnt out on the show at this point.
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Re: Episode 28

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sun May 14, 2017 12:13 pm

LostInTheMovies wrote:I really like Barry Pullman's script for episode 12 too. It's like everyone was just burnt out on the show at this point.


I agree! It's so tough to parse out exactly what each writer was responsible for in the back half of season 2. While there's some undeniably bad dialogue in the Episode 28 script, most of my major problems with the episode are structural and conceptual -- i.e., probably more Frost and/or Peyton's fault than Pullman's.
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Re: Episode 28

Postby LostInTheMovies » Sun May 14, 2017 9:22 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
LostInTheMovies wrote:I really like Barry Pullman's script for episode 12 too. It's like everyone was just burnt out on the show at this point.


I agree! It's so tough to parse out exactly what each writer was responsible for in the back half of season 2. While there's some undeniably bad dialogue in the Episode 28 script, most of my major problems with the episode are structural and conceptual -- i.e., probably more Frost and/or Peyton's fault than Pullman's.


Because of the timing of the new show approaching, a lot of podcasts have been reaching the final episode lately. And it's just amazing how *wrong* the Peyton/Engels/Frost script feels. It's such a stark contrast to what Lynch did. The endless Windom dialogue in particular...I read it, and am like "How are these the same people that wrote episode 6/episode 4/co-created the show??" Even compared to Windom's often tiresome monologues throughout s2, this is on another level of wackiness.

There's just a cognitive dissonance that we've all gone over so many times here (especially evident in, say, an episode 17 or 19) that is embedded at the heart of Twin Peaks. And it goes beyond the already (at times) stark contrast between Frost's and Lynch's sensibilities. Like...episode 7 vs episode 8 is one thing. But the script for the finale vs. the filmed finale is in a whole other ballpark. (And the few points of overlap only through the overall contrast into more extreme relief.)
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Re: Episode 28

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sun May 14, 2017 9:47 pm

LostInTheMovies wrote:There's just a cognitive dissonance that we've all gone over so many times here (especially evident in, say, an episode 17 or 19) that is embedded at the heart of Twin Peaks. And it goes beyond the already (at times) stark contrast between Frost's and Lynch's sensibilities. Like...episode 7 vs episode 8 is one thing. But the script for the finale vs. the filmed finale is in a whole other ballpark. (And the few points of overlap only through the overall contrast into more extreme relief.)


Agreed. On a show like True Detective or Lost, I can rewatch the strong earlier season(s) in light of later missteps and see the excesses peering through in the storytelling, like learning how a magician does a trick and not being able to un-see the sleight of hand, as much as you want to be simply carried away. This doesn't happen to me in the first half of TP -- the Frost & Peyton of the latter half almost feel like completely different storytellers from season 1 / early season 2, and because of that the "good" stretch of the show remains untainted. And, despite a LOT of truly baffling choices, I still have tremendous respect for Frost and Peyton and the terrific work they did in the early going.

The truly fascinating thing is, we likely never would have gotten Episode 29 as it stands without more or less the exact combination of narrative missteps that happened to bring us to that point. A path is formed by laying one stone at a time. I can't think of another instance in TV history where such a confluence of questionable choices led directly to the creation of a perfect piece of aggressively noncommercial art.
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Re: Episode 28

Postby MoondogJR » Thu May 18, 2017 12:10 pm

This episode has really got some dull moments and flaws.

But I actually like all scenes involving Andy, Coopers and Harry figuring out how/when to get in the lodges and (never really noticed this before) annie's speech about the forrest. Also like the final scene.

I'm very siked because from now on I will watch the final episode, fwwm and the missing pieces. I adore every minute of those... And next up is Twin Peaks The Return! Whaaaaaaaaaaaa!!! :) :D :D :twisted: :mrgreen:
"Your log and I are on the same page."
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Re: Episode 28

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri May 19, 2017 10:14 pm

Having said mostly shitty things about this episode -- which I really dislike -- I'll add a positive: Although I, as a rule, tend to dislike Dick Tremayne, he has two back-to-back HYSTERICAL scenes in this episode. Dick at his slimiest ("Here's to the children") and at his most surprisingly genuine ("She gave a beautiful speech") represent two extreme ends of the spectrum of the character; these might be his two funniest moments IMO.
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Re: Episode 28

Postby TwinPeaksFanatic » Sat May 20, 2017 1:56 pm

Overall there is a lot of good stuff jammed into this episode. It also plays for a lot of laughs. For me, I think Bobby getting his head smashed by Windom's log takes the cake. Andrew shooting Eckhardt's metal box is pretty fun to watch as well. Leo's fate is unfortunate, but there must be some way out of it. I wrote a recap for this episode here ---> http://twinpeaksfanatic.blogspot.com/20 ... de-28.html :D
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Jonah
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Re: Episode 28

Postby Jonah » Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:04 am

This isn't a bad episode, but some parts of it are very weak. And the fact that it's sandwiched between the very good Episode 27 and the sublime and amazing Episode 29, doesn't help. Also, parts of it just aren't that great, some even being very silly and weak. As I mentioned previously, I think 27 would have made a stronger lead-in to 29 than this one.

I do like the opening scene in the cabin. And there's some spot scenes here and there that are good, but overall a lot of this feels like mid-season stuff.

I find it intriguing some of the comments in this thread about meta elements (such as Shelly saying "I think it will take more than a day" to get over the Laura Palmer case and the fact that the women are all 'wrapped' in plastic while dancing). I never really noticed these elements, and can't say for sure if they really are meant to be meta and tongue-in-cheek, but they are interesting.

The closing scenes here are just okay. I can see how this might have played as better and more exciting at the time, given that it was billed as the finale, but on the remastered version I think the strobe effects have lost some of their disorientating power - and the fact that Earle is dressed as the Log Lady here really takes me out of the creepiness factor. I mean, it sort of works in that it's silly and ridiculous as much of Peaks often is, but I feel it undercuts his menace (as many of his disguises have), especially here as he should be scarier.

The Dick/Lana stuff. Ugh.

I do like the brief scene of Cooper meditating in his hotel room.

I like Annie's line about her past, but some of the dialogue here - such as Cooper mentioning her forest - seems outrageously bad. Ditto the Audrey line in the scene with Ben. Are these meta moments too? Are these lines meant to be so bad they're funny? Maybe.

The fact that Annie and Cooper sleep together before she's abducted, almost like she must lose her virginity before she's going to be in danger, is another one of those classic thriller/horror-movie tropes. Like the boat scene in the previous episode, it feels cliched, but it still works. Mostly.

We get a scene foreshadowing the Big Ed/Norma/Mike/Nadine turnaround in 29.

Briggs is great in this episode. His rambling manages to be both amusing and deeply unsettling.

I thought there was more made of Catherine and her brother and the key than this one scene. I know there's more in 29, but not with Catherine in it. I had remembered there being more.

Lucy's dance is fun, Lana's is awful, but maybe it's meant to be?

The Donna stuff here is very weak, but I can almost feel for her. I just think it's badly staged.

The Earle/Bobby scene is sort of funny.

All in all, I'm not sure what to make of this episode. You could view it two ways, I suppose - a lot of weak and silly stuff and some fun some. Or you could view all the silliness here as a sort of send-up of the previous mid-season slump and making some meta commentary. The balance of silly and dark doesn't always work here though and I think this is probably one of the weaker episodes of the final stretch, but it depends how you look at it. Either way, it's VERY different in tone to Episode 29.
Last edited by Jonah on Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
Actually, now that some time has passed, I like "The full blossom of the evening".
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Jonah
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Re: Episode 28

Postby Jonah » Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:31 am

LostInTheMovies wrote:-I LOVE Shelly & Donna goofing off and sharing a cigarette in the back of the chorus line. Blink and you'll miss it but a classic little character (or maybe just actor) moment. Wish we got more stuff like that to remind us that after all, they're just high school kids at the end of the day. (Shelly's not, I guess, but I get the sense she married Leo as a teenager so maybe she should be...)

I don't think I ever noticed this little bit before until you pointed it out. I agree - it's great!
Actually, now that some time has passed, I like "The full blossom of the evening".

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