Episode 28

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Re: Episode 28

Postby p-air » Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:48 am

LostInTheMovies wrote:Windom Earle's black teeth/white face.


We talked earlier about what non-Lynch material (if any) found its way into Fire Walk With Me. This might be an example...
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Re: Episode 28

Postby LostInTheMovies » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:09 pm

p-air wrote:
LostInTheMovies wrote:Windom Earle's black teeth/white face.


We talked earlier about what non-Lynch material (if any) found its way into Fire Walk With Me. This might be an example...


Yes, definitely! It also echoes Lynch's makeup in shorts like Absurd Encounter with Fear, The Grandmother and (especially) The Alphabet. I wonder if Tim Hunter's flourish (which was apparently inspired by Mizoguchi) reminded Lynch of his own early efforts.
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Re: Episode 28

Postby OK,Bob » Sat Mar 07, 2015 8:04 am

LostInTheMovies wrote:-I LOVE Shelly & Donna goofing off and sharing a cigarette in the back of the chorus line. Blink and you'll miss it but a classic little character (or maybe just actor) moment.

I'm so glad someone else's noticed this! It seems every time Shelly and Donna share a scene, Donna commandeers the cigarette. The most likely and apparent explanation is that Mädchen doesn't smoke; Lara does...

LostInTheMovies wrote:Interesting that Laura Palmer's name gets dropped for the first time in a few episodes, and while brief it's the most substantial reference since James' talk with Evelyn.

Norma's reference to "one of you in the winner's circle" in this scene led me to notice the THREE Glastonberry Grove nods at the pageant: at one time I counted the faux trees that decorate the Roadhouse and, lo!, counted twelve. There also appears to be a painting of the grove used as a backdrop behind the stage. Finally, when Annie is announced the winner - wearing (scorched oil) black - twelve contestants rush around her to offer congratulations.

This hearkens way back to DL's introduction to Blackie in Episode 2, where she appears (also dressed in black) flanked by twelve "working girls".

Fascinating stuff... if the Pageant scene itself is a bit tedious.
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Twin Peaks Out of Order #28: Episode 28

Postby LostInTheMovies » Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:50 pm

Re-watching Twin Peaks from my least favorite to favorite episode...

Previously: Episode 22 (http://www.dugpa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=41945#p41945)

I initially thought this would be higher on my list, but whenever I tried to move it up I kept thinking "But I enjoy these other episodes more." On its surface, episode 28 should not be so close to the bottom. After all, it contains some truly classic moments like Windom's creepy chalk-white face, as well as fun minor bits like Lucy's solo dance or Shelly & Donna goofing off in the back of the chorus line. And this is an "IMPORTANT!!" episode, setting the place for the entire series' climax - originally aired as part one of a two-hour Twin Peaks finale. There are so many episodes in the middle of the show that go nowhere, so shouldn't I give this penultimate chapter credit for at least attempting to deliver the goods? Yet I've come to realize that I prefer my weak Twin Peaks to be light and inconsequential rather than trying too hard but failing. Once I began re-watching 28, I was immediately relieved that I stuck with my gut by placing it this low. This is an episode I would rather get out of the way early before moving on to more enjoyable fare. Above all, much of it just drags. There are some quick character touches along the way that result in chuckles, but few scenes truly sustain energy and interest all the way through. On a meta-level many of the writerly conceits are thought-provoking: Annie bringing up Laura (and Shelly saying "I think we'll need more than a day" to heal from her death), the contestants "wrapped in plastic" raincoats, the real Log Lady being humiliated by Pinkle & then replaced by Windom Earle in Log Lady drag. But these touches also direct our attention to just how far the show has fallen; bonus points for self-awareness only go so far. If Fire Walk With Me was partly an act of rage for Lynch, and I think it was, 28 seems to epitomize everything he was raging against. There's just a general lackluster feel onscreen (the Miss Twin Peaks contest is particularly lifeless). Even the late-season mythology, which I usually find absorbing, descends into vague astrological goobledygook. And it's often painful to watch the characters behave so illogically. Why don't Cooper and Truman just stop the pageant before a winner is announced? Why can't Andy find Cooper in the small and not very crowded Road House? This is an episode that may be "better" than a lot of the really cheesy, pointless mid-season fluff but subjectively this might be my least favorite of the series, almost more so than the grim twins of 21 & 22 with which I launched this rewatch. Given the meta stuff and the fact that is this is apparently the last piece of non-Lynch-directed Twin Peaks that we will ever see, 28 is much more interesting to think about than it is to watch. The same could be said about the next two entries on this list, although I'll probably find more to highlight there. Yeesh.

Next: Episode 17 (http://www.dugpa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2871&p=42466#p42466)
Last edited by LostInTheMovies on Fri Oct 30, 2015 5:42 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Episode 28

Postby Dalai Cooper » Thu Oct 08, 2015 4:51 pm

God yeah. I don't really get mad at the lame parts of season 2 as there's always some decent stuff in there, but this ep and the preceding one are probably the ones that irk me the most even though this is where it's supposed to have "picked up". I just hate windom earle so much, from the moment we see him onscreen it's all so... undignified. The low-stakes goofiness of the midseason eps I can take (enjoy, actually), but this is where some narrative urgency finally comes in (supposedly), and it's this guy? And miss twin peaks? It's all so fucking stupid.

Why don't Cooper and Truman just stop the pageant before a winner is announced? Why can't Andy find Cooper in small and not very crowded Road House?


Yes! And don't get me started on DEADLY TARANTULAS (omg WILL LEO SURVIVE? uh, yes. They will crawl off his face and if one of them bites him he won't die.)

That said, although I hate leo as earle's igor in general, I do like the gag where he tries to use the zapper on earle.
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Re: Episode 28

Postby LostInTheMovies » Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:33 pm

Dalai Cooper wrote:God yeah. I don't really get mad at the lame parts of season 2 as there's always some decent stuff in there, but this ep and the preceding one are probably the ones that irk me the most even though this is where it's supposed to have "picked up". I just hate windom earle so much, from the moment we see him onscreen it's all so... undignified. The low-stakes goofiness of the midseason eps I can take (enjoy, actually), but this is where some narrative urgency finally comes in (supposedly), and it's this guy? And miss twin peaks? It's all so fucking stupid.


I actually like the previous episode quite a bit (though I'm struggling with ranking as high as I will - still back half of the series, but close to the middle - given how much time it devotes to the dreadful and drawn-out JJW climax). And much as I agree that Windom never really worked for me as a villain, I think he's a bit better than usual in ep. 27 & 28. At least he's mostly in dark clothes (Lynch's suggestion, apparently) and at times Kenneth Welsh seems genuinely menacing rather than just totally cartoonish. But yes, it's that misplaced sense of narrative urgency that irks here. Everyone just being shuffled into place without any enthusiasm. I always think about Tim Hunter's anecdote that he couldn't wait to come back to direct Twin Peaks and he was shocked by how dispirited everyone had become, especially Kyle MacLachlan.
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Re: Episode 28

Postby Audrey Horne » Thu Oct 08, 2015 7:15 pm

I hope it doesn't hurt this much in a week!

When people say even at its worst, Peaks was better than anything else on tv... Um, exhibit A, your Homor! This is hard for me because it was combined with the finale and there was so much time in between. And I was still holding out that they were fixing it between this and the last one... And that Audrey and Cooper were still narratively together.

Put this next to any episode of the first season, even the first few of the second... It's not even the same show, it's not even the same world. I think I actually cried during this one.
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Re: Episode 28

Postby Dalai Cooper » Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:34 am

LostInTheMovies wrote:
Dalai Cooper wrote:God yeah. I don't really get mad at the lame parts of season 2 as there's always some decent stuff in there, but this ep and the preceding one are probably the ones that irk me the most even though this is where it's supposed to have "picked up". I just hate windom earle so much, from the moment we see him onscreen it's all so... undignified. The low-stakes goofiness of the midseason eps I can take (enjoy, actually), but this is where some narrative urgency finally comes in (supposedly), and it's this guy? And miss twin peaks? It's all so fucking stupid.


I actually like the previous episode quite a bit (though I'm struggling with ranking as high as I will - still back half of the series, but close to the middle - given how much time it devotes to the dreadful and drawn-out JJW climax). And much as I agree that Windom never really worked for me as a villain, I think he's a bit better than usual in ep. 27 & 28. At least he's mostly in dark clothes (Lynch's suggestion, apparently) and at times Kenneth Welsh seems genuinely menacing rather than just totally cartoonish. But yes, it's that misplaced sense of narrative urgency that irks here. Everyone just being shuffled into place without any enthusiasm. I always think about Tim Hunter's anecdote that he couldn't wait to come back to direct Twin Peaks and he was shocked by how dispirited everyone had become, especially Kyle MacLachlan.


Heh, I think I'll wait for your rewatch of 27 as you may have forgotten the scene in which Earle is quite literally a pantomime villain! As I think I said on the thread for that episode, it has a lot of my favourite stuff in it, which is what makes it so frustrating.
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Re: Episode 28

Postby LostInTheMovies » Fri Oct 09, 2015 11:22 am

Dalai Cooper wrote:
LostInTheMovies wrote:
Dalai Cooper wrote:God yeah. I don't really get mad at the lame parts of season 2 as there's always some decent stuff in there, but this ep and the preceding one are probably the ones that irk me the most even though this is where it's supposed to have "picked up". I just hate windom earle so much, from the moment we see him onscreen it's all so... undignified. The low-stakes goofiness of the midseason eps I can take (enjoy, actually), but this is where some narrative urgency finally comes in (supposedly), and it's this guy? And miss twin peaks? It's all so fucking stupid.


I actually like the previous episode quite a bit (though I'm struggling with ranking as high as I will - still back half of the series, but close to the middle - given how much time it devotes to the dreadful and drawn-out JJW climax). And much as I agree that Windom never really worked for me as a villain, I think he's a bit better than usual in ep. 27 & 28. At least he's mostly in dark clothes (Lynch's suggestion, apparently) and at times Kenneth Welsh seems genuinely menacing rather than just totally cartoonish. But yes, it's that misplaced sense of narrative urgency that irks here. Everyone just being shuffled into place without any enthusiasm. I always think about Tim Hunter's anecdote that he couldn't wait to come back to direct Twin Peaks and he was shocked by how dispirited everyone had become, especially Kyle MacLachlan.


Heh, I think I'll wait for your rewatch of 27 as you may have forgotten the scene in which Earle is quite literally a pantomime villain! As I think I said on the thread for that episode, it has a lot of my favourite stuff in it, which is what makes it so frustrating.


Oh yeah, that one's pretty bad! I do like the scene with him interrogating Maj. Briggs though.
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Re: Episode 28

Postby David Locke » Fri Oct 09, 2015 1:58 pm

I'd need to re-watch this episode again to give a more concrete opinion, but from memory I don't think I'd place it below most, or any, of the post-Leland, pre-Gordon's return episodes. It's definitely not one of the show's best hours, and you guys have pointed the flaws out well, but it also works in a way as pure ridiculous momentum leading up to the climax. It's not at all what Twin Peaks should be, it's silly, it lacks gravity, the dialogue is often shockingly inept, but I think I prefer its plot-centric kitsch to the go-nowhere, daytime-soap feel of the mid-S2 slump episodes. That said, there's probably not much of a difference, and this episode is easily the weakest of the post-Gordon's return ones. It lacks the quasi-Lynchian touch that made Episode 27 more successful (if still flawed).

Basically, I've come to the conclusion that the only really "great" post-Leland episodes are 25, with its wonderful RR scene and Gordon's return and an air of excitement and possibility which the show had lost after the reveal, and of course the unimpeachable 29.
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Re: Episode 28

Postby Jonah » Fri Oct 09, 2015 7:23 pm

I remember being really disappointed in Episode 28 during the last rewatch I undertook, that I had misremembered it as being good or better than it actually was. I like the meta moments, the closing moments, but not much else. I think 27 is vastly better than 28 and might have made a better penultimate episode overall if they'd just added a little bit of the Miss Twin Peaks near the end.

As for Earle, I have mixed feelings on him but mostly like him. I agree that some of his pantomime stuff is pretty bad but I think it's a testament to Kenneth Welsh's acting and overall command of that role that he mostly carried everything off. I find Windom at times very creepy, and don't think his menace ever truly dissipates, even during some awful pantomime moments. I prefer all his stuff in the cabin and when he's dressed in dark clothes, and of course in Episode 29 - but I can live with the weaker moments. I think the trucker disguise in the RR when he goes to visit Shelley is unfortunately bad, and it pisses me off Cooper can't sense him in that scene either. I find his scene with Audrey as the professor funny but, again, the disguise is groan-inducing. I do like when he visits Donna, though - I think that disguise is more effective and the scene creepier. As for the horse - completely ridiculous, but you know, I actually like that scene a lot! At least the first few moments of it - when Briggs first sees the horse, and the "Hello Wilbur". I think it plays well and manages to be surreal and even a bit creepy. But when I actually think of it on paper - that Windom and Leo are supposed to REALLY be creeping through the woods dressed in a horse costume with a dart gun - it's pretty bad, possibly even worse than anything in the middle stretch of episodes. I just think it plays surprisingly well. Maybe it would have worked better if it had been implied to have been an hallucination with Briggs then waking up in the cabin. I don't know, but overall I think a lot of the Earle stuff works, even though it's so ridiculous it really shouldn't, and again I credit this to Kenneth Welsh!
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Re: Episode 28

Postby David Locke » Mon Jun 13, 2016 1:38 am

On another re-watch and this episode still strikes me as good, but nothing more. It's a solid plot-driven hour that largely lacks both the sense of otherworldly strangeness and the sincere pathos which marks the best of Peaks. It's also oddly difficult to get through considering how ostensibly important it is. Everything just feels like so much stuff to plow through in order to get to the real show, Lynch's finale. And after the masterful and foreboding Episode 27, 28's relative lightness and lack of urgency (until the final moment) feels especially strange.
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Re: Episode 28

Postby Aerozhul » Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:38 pm

Jonah wrote:I think it's such a shame they combined this with 29 for the final airing, it must have made 29 seem less intense? I don't remember seeing this when it first aired - did anyone find it weakened the whole thing or was the second half too amazing to be weakened?


You know what? After the previous episode ended, they made us wait two and a half months. After the incredible ending of the previous episode, it was a really, really long wait. I was so excited to see new Twin Peaks by June 10, 1991, that I didn't care about the cornball elements of this episode, I loved it all. Plus I was 13, so wasn't really knowledgeable about who as directing which episodes. Having said that, they couldn't have put together two more stylistically different episodes. So in short, no it didn't make the second hour less intense - it was as intense as could be, and the craziest thing I had ever seen on TV, and I thought I had hit that nadir with the killer reveal and Maddy's murder. It was also really bittersweet because I knew the show was over, and that the chances of having any sort of continuation (there were rumblings of a movie by then) were pretty slim. So I just enjoyed....and taped it on VHS and am pretty sure I re-watched those two episodes together ten times that summer....
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Re: Episode 28

Postby Aerozhul » Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:59 pm

One of the best parts of this re-watch is that I can come here after each episode and see what others thought. It's been a fun ride, to be sure!

I've pretty much been out he same plane as everyone else, but I disagree with a lot of what I've read so far in this thread. I really like this episode....much of it is probably the nostalgia of seeing this along with the last episode when they aired. There are some really great highlights in this one;

-Windom's pale face and black teeth. I still don't know if I've seen a good explanation for this anywhere on these boards, or anywhere else; this was pretty unsettling and made Earle a lot more menacing - really for the first time since his debut.
- Major Brigg's (mostly) incoherent ramblings were pretty entertaining
- The shallow part of me did enjoy finally seeing a bit more of Shelly, Donna, Annie during that dance number. Maybe I'm a bit more like Pinkle than I like to admit. And too bad Sherilyn had to be "difficult" and refuse to be in that scene. And who knew Lucy had a pretty decent body under all that frumpiness? OK, OK, I'll stop.
- I really liked the strobe light chaos at the close of the pageant. Twin Peaks does large-scale disaster pretty well.
- Pinkle pawing at Log Lady was good stuff

What I didn't like:

- Lana's stupid dance. Really, we had to watch this instead of some of the other girls? There was nothing about it that was sexy.
- Lana plot point in general was tiresome by this episode. Lana as a character works better in the background and in small doses - kind of liked her part in the wine-tasting scene a few episodes prior.
- Agree the Audrey / Ben scene in front of the fireplace was bland, one of their worst ever...except Audrey saying the bit about not wanting to be the town bathing beauty. Heh.
- Andy grated on my nerves this episode, from not being able to find Coop in the Roadhouse, to his endless gaping at the petroglyph and especially with his stupid, "It's a map" ending. No shit? Certainly they could have come up with a better last shot. Kind of lessened the impact of everything that came just moments before
- Coop had some terrible dialogue in this one - "Good Heavens"!
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Re: Episode 28

Postby teddyleevin » Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:07 am

Aerozhul wrote:What I didn't like:
- Lana's stupid dance. Really, we had to watch this instead of some of the other girls? There was nothing about it that was sexy.


Just finished my re-watch, too. I was trying to decide my least favorite moment of the series. The wake and the weasel scene were contenders but they are so intensely fascinating and incongruous that I have to sort of appreciate them? I decided, unequivocally, that Lana's dance is the worst scene in the entire series. It could ALMOST be a joke. The dance is very bad (especially after Lucy's dance), it's completely unsexy as Aerozhul mentions. Contortions? None.

However, it's not UNSEXY ENOUGH to be effective. Truly, it's wasted screen-time. But maybe a good joke would be that Lana's dancing is so obviously terrible, but the men don't notice. It's sort of hinted at in Norma's reaction to the dance. Yes, the dance is terrible, but it's not clear if the show knows its terrible or if the show actually thinks its sexy.

It's also oppressively long and the music is simply terrible (compared to the other hilarious pageant music which is wonderful pastiche). God, I hate Lana and her storyline so much already, but this scene is truly the lowest moment.

Also... why does Coop clap like he's never clapped in his life? Those spread fingers....

On the side of the good, I absolutely agree about the strobelight ending. It rattled me to the core the first time I watched it but it's ONLY effective watching in a dark room as I just learned on re-watching.

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