Episode 9

Moderators: Annie, BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne, Brad D

User avatar
StealThisCorn
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:53 pm
Location: Laying on Laura's lap in the Red Room / Gorging on garmonbozia with Bob Above the Convenience Store

Episode 9

Postby StealThisCorn » Wed Dec 17, 2014 5:00 pm

The German fan title for this episode is "Coma".

The Barbershop Quartette in the background provides more fun little bizarre “Lynchian” window dressing to the scene. All the directors seem to enjoy staging quirky little events or conventions going on in the background, but I feel Lynch always takes the cake.

Note: Albert mentions that he personally questioned the “world’s most decrepit room service waiter”, so we can safely say he is a real person employed at the hotel and not some ghostly hallucination brought on by Cooper’s blood loss after being shot.

The mysterious man spying on Cooper in a less than inconspicuous manner provides another possible suspect for Cooper’s shooting. Note, however, that he is *not* the same Asian gentleman seen by Audrey checking in to the room across the hall from Dale’s in ‘Realization Time’ just before leaving for OEJ.

The surreal scene where Donna delivers food to Mrs. Tremond and her grandson is one of my favorites in the whole series. Donna seems like she is either hiding her unease very well or doesn’t find it particularly strange when the grandson clearly makes the creamed corn physically teleport from the plate to his hands and then completely disappear without a trace, while Mrs. Tremond brushes it aside as a mere magic trick. Like in the episode preceding it, we find that Lynch once again pushes the envelope with the supernatural goings on being more explicit. Of course, the little boy in the tuxedo was played by David Lynch’s son Austin, which is why he looks like such a perfect miniature clone of Lynch. These two characters are revealed to be the same kind of spiritual entities as Mike and Bob in the film, where we see them convening together with the rest in the room “above the convenience store”, the same film where we also learn the creamed corn is a physical representation of the “pain and suffering” such entities feed on. In light of this, I interpret her fearful rejection of Donna’s corn to be because she is not allowed to consume more than her share (a tiny bowl is resting at her Grandson’s feet in the store scene). This further makes sense in light of the fact that, in the film, Mike vehemently hunts Bob down and, when confronting him, shouts about how he “stole the corn” that he had “canned above the store” and promises punishment, implying this was a dire breach of their laws. This begs the question, however, why is it that Donna stumbles in upon these two at all? Why can she see them? Is she one of the gifted as well?

Cooper and Harry having to figure out how to work the stool before they can question Ronnette is one of those nice little awkward but natural moments.

I love how Major Briggs keeps looking over at Andy struggling to tape up the wanted poster for Bob and he almost seems to want to get up and go help him. The energy created by the Log Lady and the Major being being together is really something.

Hank was once a Bookhouse Boy. One of the best, in fact. These are the episodes I really found Hank cool in. Not so much later.

When Jerry asks if this is “real or some strange and twisted dream”, I cannot help but hear David Patrick Kelly, portraying T-Bird in ‘The Crow’ (1994), saying “this is the really real world man!”

I see a few different possibilities for the identity of the person on the phone with Lucy trying to get in touch with Sheriff Truman but who won’t give their name:

1) The man who has been watching Cooper, trying to call Truman about something related to Josie ("Jonathan").

2) Leland Palmer, calling to tell the Sheriff about recognizing Bob in the wanted poster from his childhood summer home.

3) Philip Gerard, the one-armed man, just because we saw him skulking around before trying to get in to see the Sheriff and sell him some shoes without an appointment.

If it is Leland, whose scene directly precedes it when he “had to tell the Sheriff about this right away”, then it is very interesting that he doesn’t want to give his name and wants to share his information on Bob anonymously, considering he is, in fact, Bob, and there is a question as to whose identity is dominant now. By sharing the story of ‘Mr. Robertson’, perhaps Bob throws off Cooper and Truman by keeping them focused on finding a real man in the material world, a place they could never find him.

BUT, you would think Lucy and Truman would both recognize Leland and anyone else from the regular townspeople's voices so that is actually pretty unlikely.

Audrey is such a badass here, though I’m not sure why she doesn’t just try to escape immediately after she gets the info she wanted out of Battis. Surely she doesn’t think he won’t report this after she takes that cord from around his neck.

Clearly neither the Sheriff’s Department nor even Albert made a very thorough sweep of Cooper’s room for evidence after he was shot because Audrey’s damn note is still (!) barely an inch under his bed.

Here the delightful Major Briggs functions as a mouthpiece for the Giant’s second clue, “The owls are not what they seem”, but it is frustrating that, though this is referenced, what it might mean is not any more explained. The Air Force later reveals that these messages came not from outer space, as had been supposed, but were traced to be emanating from the woods around Twin Peaks.

The “Just You And I” demo being cut on Hayward’s living room floor is one of the most excruciating but yet comically hilarious moments in the show, because it really drives home that nothing like this would ever happen on literally any other tv show. And it also serves as such a great set up almost lulling you to relax and be amused before surprising the hell out of you by what happens next as poor Maddy sees Bob simply stroll into the house, climb over the freaking couch and assault her mind in one of the most disturbing visuals.

Once again the Giant seems to appear in Cooper’s room at the end, waving his hand over his sleeping form to transmit some kind of knowledge to him through his dreams. With the image of the owl superimposed over Bob’s face, it would seem there is some kind of sinister connection between the owls and Bob.

We distinctly hear the ominous whoosh of the ceiling fan in the background of this dream, along with such familiar images as Sarah Palmer descending the staircase and Bob crouching at the foot of Laura’s bed. This same sound is played in the background of the film ‘Fire Walk With Me’ while Leland is confronting Laura with the truth about her life’s tormentor.
Last edited by StealThisCorn on Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
LostInTheMovies
Posts: 1557
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:48 pm

Re: Episode 9

Postby LostInTheMovies » Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:43 pm

StealThisCorn wrote:I see a few different possibilities for the identity of the person on the phone with Lucy trying to get in touch with Sheriff Truman but who won’t give their name:

1) The man who has been watching Cooper, trying to call Truman about something related to Josie ("Jonathan").

2) Leland Palmer, calling to tell the Sheriff about recognizing Bob in the wanted poster from his childhood summer home.

3) Philip Gerard, the one-armed man, just because we saw him skulking around before trying to get in to see the Sheriff and sell him some shoes without an appointment.

If it is Leland, whose scene directly precedes it when he “had to tell the Sheriff about this right away”, then it is very interesting that he doesn’t want to give his name and wants to share his information on Bob anonymously, considering he is, in fact, Bob, and there is a question as to whose identity is dominant now. By sharing the story of ‘Mr. Robertson’, perhaps Bob throws off Cooper and Truman by keeping them focused on finding a real man in the material world, a place they could never find him.

BUT, you would think Lucy and Truman would both recognize Leland and anyone else from the regular townspeople's voices so that is actually pretty unlikely.


I really like option #2 for several reasons:

- It makes sense for the identity reasons you suggest. This works on both a literal level - he's at this moment struggling/shifting between the two personalities - but also metaphorically. Leland's inability to tell Lucy his name, even if there is a more mundane explantion for it (he's in a rush, he thinks she should know, he just wants to be anonymous), perfectly symbolizes his inner confusion.

- Leland leaves Ben & Jerry in a rush, but then doesn't appear at the sheriff's station until the next day. Having him call Lucy in the interim, especially combined with the above point, offers an explanation more interesting than "they wanted to save that scene till the next episode" (maybe because they wanted to couple it with Leland himself being arrested later in ep. 10 or it just felt too early to introduce that plot point). It does seem like there should be several steps in what really is a big decision for Leland, if he doesn't quite register how big it is.

- Here's the big one, which didn't occur to me until right now. This scene is a GREAT callback to the European version, in which Leland is the one who calls Lucy's house to report Bob. Considering how much Lynch likes to reference that "alternate universe" version of events - not just its obvious incorporation as a dream sequence but later the "convenience store" and even the "red thread" in FWWM - this would really make sense. (It's worth noting that this moment is not in Harley Peyton's script - so we can presume it was added by Lynch while shooting, just as he added many other details or even whole scenes to this and other episodes.) And it makes a great contrast to the alternate ending, whose whole thrust is that the good, stand-up father is calling to report this evil drifter villain, whereas on the show he is essentially reporting...himself.

As far as not recognizing his voice, keep in mind Truman never talks to him so it's just on Lucy. And we know how anal she can be (including in that alternate ending scene).

The most likely explanation for the call may actually be that Lynch doesn't know who it is supposed to be, but just liked the note of ominous mystery that it sounded. And then no one ever thought to follow up on it. But as far as in-world goes, I vote for Leland, for the above reasons.
User avatar
Audrey Horne
Posts: 1838
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:20 pm
Location: The Great Northern

Re: Episode 9

Postby Audrey Horne » Tue Mar 10, 2015 5:41 pm

So odd but until the advent of the internet and the discovery of Peaks discussion, I never knew this was a big question for people. And I might be wrong and it might be intentionally ambiguous, but I always thought it was Leland calling the station. I never gave it a second thought.

But yay, more episode discussions!
God, I love this music. Isn't it too dreamy?
User avatar
Audrey Horne
Posts: 1838
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:20 pm
Location: The Great Northern

Re: Episode 9

Postby Audrey Horne » Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:51 am

call sheet

peaks 2007.JPG
peaks 2007.JPG (125.6 KiB) Viewed 3556 times
God, I love this music. Isn't it too dreamy?
User avatar
LostInTheMovies
Posts: 1557
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:48 pm

Re: Episode 9

Postby LostInTheMovies » Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:18 pm

Audrey Horne wrote:call sheet

peaks 2007.JPG


Wow, interesting - so he shot ep. 8 & 9 together. I guess that makes sense at a location like the hospital (I know they did the same thing with OEJ in s1). Do you know if the rest of the episode - the soundstage stuff - was also shot concurrently?

Out of curiosity, have you seen/do you have any FWWM shooting schedule? I would LOVE to know what scenes were shot when, beyond the fact that the train car was shot on Halloween, and location was done in September.
User avatar
LostInTheMovies
Posts: 1557
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:48 pm

Twin Peaks Out of Order #4: Episode 9

Postby LostInTheMovies » Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:17 pm

Re-watching Twin Peaks from my least favorite to favorite episode...

Previously: The Pilot (http://www.dugpa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=44215#p44215)

David Lynch never directed an episode that seemed less significant to the overall series. Episode 9 is not a pilot, premiere, or finale, and it doesn’t contain any massive twists or big reveals. This is also the only time Lynch tackled a teleplay that Frost did not write (the pairing with Harley Peyton, Twin Peaks' most verbose and playful scribe, provides a surprisingly delicious clash: like salt with chocolate). But the casual appearance is decieving. Aside from the finale and Fire Walk With Me, this episode may contain the greatest concentration of the supernatural in all of Twin Peaks. Psychedelic flashes of owls flit across the screen, the giant speaks again, the Log Lady links up with Major Briggs, and Cooper gets a message...from outer space? There are four visions of Bob - two in a poster, one in a dream, and another (unforgettably) as the Haywards’ living room turns into some sort of transdimensional portal or psychic hotspot. Bob crawling across the couch is the episode's most unforgettable image, and it had a profound impact on me the first time I witnessed it. I still experience an involuntary shudder - especially that split-second before the cut when every instinct available to us says he’s going to stop and he keeps going - but tonight my favorite moment may be Donna's hypnotic visit to the Tremond family. It’s as if David Lynch himself was discovering something he didn't expect to find in the creaky old room (and indeed he was: "gar-mon-boz-ia..."). The scene’s uncanny quality reminds me a bit of Lynch's Rabbits "sitcom" (and other digital shorts like Darkened Room). More than anything we've seen on the show so far, this scene calls up the spirit of "later" Lynch: cryptic, immersive, terrifying, irresistible. For many viewers, the other big Donna scene is a blemish on the episode, at best something cheesy to laugh off, at worst the most horrible thing Lynch ever created. I speak, of course, of the "Just You" singalong. Well, I love it. It reminds me of the lip-synced 50s ballads in Mulholland Drive, evokes a disoriented sense of nostalgic reverie, and provides the perfect set-up for Bob to materialize and scare us out of our wits. Episode 9 is always teetering between abject terror and dry absurdist humor, heightening the seesaw tonality already established in the pilot. For example, Ronette flailing and screaming "train car!" cuts directly to Ben and Jerry's smoked cheese pig. So much is churning under the surface of 9, a transitional work for the filmmaker (along with the season 2 premiere, which was shot concurrently). Lynch is feeling his way from the playful perfection of episode 2 (his next entry on our rewatch) to the profound gamechanger of the killer's reveal (his next entry on Twin Peaks itself).

Next: Episode 2 (http://www.dugpa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=44279#p44279)
User avatar
TwinPeaksFanatic
Posts: 118
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:37 pm
Location: Central. NJ
Contact:

Re: Episode 9

Postby TwinPeaksFanatic » Sat Feb 06, 2016 8:01 am

I was also wondering who called Lucy at the station. I never really thought about it before, but after rewatching to do my recap, see here --> http://twinpeaksfanatic.blogspot.com/20 ... ode-9.html I found myself wondering about that phone call.

Also I know there are a lot of theories, but the creamed corn - is it just creepy for creepy sake or does it actually represent something specific?

:D
User avatar
mtwentz
Posts: 1378
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 10:02 am

Re: Episode 9

Postby mtwentz » Sat Feb 27, 2016 7:26 am

Wasn't it the Asian guy Johnnathan who called Lucy? That's what I always assumed.
User avatar
LostInTheMovies
Posts: 1557
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:48 pm

Re: Episode 9

Postby LostInTheMovies » Sun Feb 28, 2016 5:00 am

TwinPeaksFanatic wrote:I was also wondering who called Lucy at the station. I never really thought about it before, but after rewatching to do my recap, see here --> http://twinpeaksfanatic.blogspot.com/20 ... ode-9.html I found myself wondering about that phone call.

Also I know there are a lot of theories, but the creamed corn - is it just creepy for creepy sake or does it actually represent something specific?

:D


I go with Leland. I like the idea that he "can't say who he is."

Well, creamed corn DEFINITELY represent "pain and sorrow" - as we learn from FWWM! But I don't think Lynch had that in mind when he made ep. 9. I think he just thought it looked cool & creepy, and figured it out later. In fact, I don't think he even knew what it was while he was shooting the film. I think he figured it out during editing.
User avatar
Imawholedamntown!
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 2:06 am
Location: NY/NJ area

Re: Episode 9

Postby Imawholedamntown! » Thu Mar 03, 2016 5:42 am

Well, creamed corn DEFINITELY represent "pain and sorrow" - as we learn from FWWM! But I don't think Lynch had that in mind when he made ep. 9. I think he just thought it looked cool & creepy, and figured it out later. In fact, I don't think he even knew what it was while he was shooting the film. I think he figured it out during editing.

[quote]

I think Lynch may have had ideas about the creamed corn since the run of the series, and that its significance was formed from those thoughts. When Donna visits the Chalfonts (posing as Tremonds) and the Marble Rye Lady (I call her that because every time I see her she reminds me of that Seinfeld episode) protests the creamed corn and the boy takes it away and makes it disappear, it is clear that Lynch already had ideas about the symbolic nature of it, making it seem, to me, at least, that the creamed corn idea did not come along quite so haphazardly.

Just my two cents.
"Garland? What an odd name...JUDY Garland?"
User avatar
LostInTheMovies
Posts: 1557
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:48 pm

Re: Episode 9

Postby LostInTheMovies » Sat Mar 05, 2016 12:18 pm

Imawholedamntown! wrote:
Well, creamed corn DEFINITELY represent "pain and sorrow" - as we learn from FWWM! But I don't think Lynch had that in mind when he made ep. 9. I think he just thought it looked cool & creepy, and figured it out later. In fact, I don't think he even knew what it was while he was shooting the film. I think he figured it out during editing.


I think Lynch may have had ideas about the creamed corn since the run of the series, and that its significance was formed from those thoughts. When Donna visits the Chalfonts (posing as Tremonds) and the Marble Rye Lady (I call her that because every time I see her she reminds me of that Seinfeld episode) protests the creamed corn and the boy takes it away and makes it disappear, it is clear that Lynch already had ideas about the symbolic nature of it, making it seem, to me, at least, that the creamed corn idea did not come along quite so haphazardly.

Just my two cents.


Oh, I think he definitely had specific *feelings* about it from the beginning; I would just be surprised if at that early date he had the whole "pain and sorrow" concept figured out (and if he did have it in mind when he made the movie he originally planned to conceal its meaning, since it isn't in the script). According to either Mark Frost or Harley Peyton - I'm not sure which - he added the creamed corn to episode 9 ok he spur of the moment because he saw creamed corn in the cafeteria that day and it left an impression on him! Imagine if they'd served something else that day... (Or, for that matter, if Frank Silva hadn't been moving props around the bedroom and/or caught in the mirror...one thing I love about the Twin Peaks mythology is how so michael of I is built on council emcee and accident.)

What do you make of the grandson's comfort with the corn - and the grandmother's hatred of it? The Tremonds are among the hardest characters to get a grasp on, I find. Just had a theory today that the grandmother is the grandson's host which I fun intriguing although the fact that Donna discovers she never really lived there certainly suggests she is a spirit and not a human.
User avatar
N. Needleman
Posts: 1669
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:39 pm

Re: Episode 9

Postby N. Needleman » Sat Mar 05, 2016 2:08 pm

My instinctive take on the corn bit with the Tremonds has always been that of younger and older predators in the animal kingdom, but it could also be a personal choice. Mrs. Tremond, the elder, either abstains out of some kind of horror or shame or is simply too old and weak to consume the garmonbozia, while her grandson still takes it eagerly and with perhaps an amorality.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
User avatar
Imawholedamntown!
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 2:06 am
Location: NY/NJ area

Re: Episode 9

Postby Imawholedamntown! » Sun Mar 06, 2016 12:51 am

N. Needleman wrote:My instinctive take on the corn bit with the Tremonds has always been that of younger and older predators in the animal kingdom, but it could also be a personal choice. Mrs. Tremond, the elder, either abstains out of some kind of horror or shame or is simply too old and weak to consume the garmonbozia, while her grandson still takes it eagerly and with perhaps an amorality.


I don't believe he took it eagerly. I think he made it disappear, according to the almost horrified reaction of Ms. Chalfont/Tremond, because it was either someone else's share or that she doesn't, won't, and will never engorge on pain and sorrow. The boy doesn't seem amoral; he seems to be a specific spirit of nature, of animal or plant, and I'm guessing Animal because of the monkey. He warns Laura about Bob outside of the RR Diner. In the sequence with Jeffries (R.I.P., Bowie) we see them in the background, as well as the black man and bearded man towards the back. The Arm and Bob sit at the Formica table in the foreground, the Arm having taken Mike's place. This is when the boy utters,"fell a victim," Which I believe to be a reference to not Laura or Leland, but to Cooper. Jeffries seems to have traveled into the future and that is why, when he shows up to the FBI office in Philly out of nowhere, he points to Coop and says, "Do you know who that is there?"
Anyway, I don't think they were predators; I think Bob went rogue when he stole all the creamed corn from above the convenience store and the other spirits (although I'm not so sure about the jumping man with the red suit and mask) are trying to get him back under control because he is destroying the delicate balance of the nature within "our" world. When the boy warned Laura that the "man behind the mask" is close and is looking for the book with the torn out pages, Ms. Chalfont gives her the picture that sucks Laura into a dream for the purpose of being given the ring so Bob couldn't use her body as a vessel, even though Coop mistakenly tells her not to take it. Makes you wonder if that was Good Coop telling her not to take the ring, or Coop's shadow self. It could just be that Good Coop, in having the same dream as Laura, really believed the ring to be bad and really was trying to warn her.
I have the same opinion whom others have by thinking that Mike made the ring to try and control Bob. I think that's why we see Mike throw the ring into the train car for Laura. Bob may have wanted to use Teresa Banks as a vessel as well, but since she was wearing the ring he just killed her instead.
"Garland? What an odd name...JUDY Garland?"
cowwithfivelegs
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:33 pm

Re: Episode 9

Postby cowwithfivelegs » Sun Mar 06, 2016 1:54 pm

.
Last edited by cowwithfivelegs on Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
LostInTheMovies
Posts: 1557
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:48 pm

Re: Episode 9

Postby LostInTheMovies » Sun Mar 06, 2016 6:59 pm

cowwithfivelegs wrote:
Imawholedamntown! wrote:When the boy warned Laura that the "man behind the mask" is close and is looking for the book with the torn out pages, Ms. Chalfont gives her the picture that sucks Laura into a dream for the purpose of being given the ring so Bob couldn't use her body as a vessel, even though Coop mistakenly tells her not to take it. Makes you wonder if that was Good Coop telling her not to take the ring, or Coop's shadow self. It could just be that Good Coop, in having the same dream as Laura, really believed the ring to be bad and really was trying to warn her.


I disagree with this. If Laura hadn't taken the ring, BOB may have taken her as a vessel, but she could still possibly be saved from his possession. By taking the ring, it guaranteed her death, from which there is no coming back from (season 3 excluded).


If it's the case that the ring ensures death though, why is Teresa not wearing it when she is killed?

Return to “Season 2 (1990-1991)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest