Episode 8 (Season 2 Premiere)

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Jonah
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Re: Episode 8 (Season 2 Premiere)

Postby Jonah » Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:00 am

LostInTheMovies wrote:- On the other hand, much as I prefer Maddy's look in this episode (and find the glasses-breaking thing hilarious) she's the one who feels like a whole new character, particularly as the character wasn't terribly well-defined in season 1. In fact, changing her hair is already enough to make us feel like continuity has been broken. If a character looks exactly the same as another character and you change a few physical things to distinguish them, I'm not sure it makes sense to change those physical things again (yeah, her hair is still black but now it's curly instead of straight, and Maddy is dressing more like Laura too). Especially when the character's personality is really just a broad sketch. It seems like Maddy doesn't get a chance to shine and carve out her own space until episode 13 by the lake with James...and that's a goodbye scene! Episode 8 makes me really feel like Lynch wanted Sheryl Lee on set but wasn't in love with the whole idea of an identical cousin/different character.


Maybe Lynch was going for the spirit of Laura really coming through as a haunting force in this episode more than previously - Donna feels her (perhaps due to wearing her sunglasses), and begins acting like her, and Maddy feels her too and starts dressing/acting like her as well, even furiously breaking her own glasses and saying she "hates" them. It really is like Laura is taking them both over - almost - at different points. And even in the closing moments of the episode, Ronette is haunted by her image too. The more I think of it, the more I feel Lynch was going for this. They are not literally being possessed by Laura, but it's almost like they are, and thematically it feels right.
Actually, now that some time has passed, I like "The full blossom of the evening".
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Re: Episode 8 (Season 2 Premiere)

Postby qbin2001 » Sat Oct 31, 2015 10:09 am

I never noticed it until now, but in the moment when Andy gets punched in the face with the board you can hear very loud ducks and it sounds like they laughing. :lol:
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the haystack
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Re: Episode 8 (Season 2 Premiere)

Postby the haystack » Sat Oct 31, 2015 12:14 pm

Just a few weeks prior, Donna had been warned against, practically attacked for, wearing Laura's jacket (er, sweater, vest-thingy). Laura (in FWWM) was involved with Donna in a way that I never really understood--might be a male-based deficit. They were best friends; Laura tried to keep secrets from her; Laura dominated, Donna was submissive; Donna was the ingenue, Laura was experienced; Laura drew some lines between them; when Laura was broken, she leaned on Donna for support. Very complex. I wondered if that is some of what they were trying to show in the jail scene. Donna was now going to take the baton from Laura. (The puppy dog becomes the alpha.) Furthermore, I wonder if the clothes themselves carried some element of Laura's spirit in them. Remember that Laura's pink room scene (she made a real scene) was the most intense reaction to Donna that was shown--I definitely thought she was screaming at Donna out of caution, a warning, a protecting. I mean, it was just a crappy jacket. And now...back to Ep. 8...the glasses? Did Laura's personal belongings mess with the wearer?

I know that was a jumbled mess, but thanks for reading. I feel like Donna gets more disrespect than is deserved, just generally.
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Re: Episode 8 (Season 2 Premiere)

Postby TwinPeaksFanatic » Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:10 pm

This is one of my favorite episodes in the series. I've always been partial to the David Lynch directed episodes, but the Season 2 opener, in my opinion, really sets the stage for the dark side of Twin Peaks. I wrote a recap for the episode here -- > http://twinpeaksfanatic.blogspot.com/20 ... miere.html

:D
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beano
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Re: Episode 8 (Season 2 Premiere)

Postby beano » Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:27 pm

i am again struck by the sound of a ticking clock in coopers room as he lays on the ground shot at the beginning of this episode. i commented on the same ticking clock in the episode 2 thread when cooper gets into bed before the dream sequence. in this episode the ticking continues throughout the whole interaction with the room service waiter and then disappears when the giant arrives. although there is a lot of other sound effect occuring while the giant is present, the previous ticking clock seems to be replaced by a slower and deeper ticking. does this suggest that where the giant is from time moves differently? i think of major briggs asking how long he had been gone when he returns from his disappearance.. i know this is a small detail, but it is something that for some reason has been striking me as significant. mark frost has said that the passage of time will play an important role in the new series.. i, for one, will be listening for the sound of ticking clocks in the new episodes.
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Re: Episode 8 (Season 2 Premiere)

Postby The Man » Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:08 pm

LostInTheMovies wrote:I'm not sure about the Little Man. I think the reason people see him as evil is that in FWWM he's laughing with Bob ... But in the same film he is clearly battling against Bob, and the role he plays for Laura is a positive one. (Also when else is division a GOOD thing in Twin Peaks? This leads me to doubt Mike's bad arm story.)


Hi l REALLY liked your series on YouTube. I can't be sure how much my opinions actually derive from your videos. Anyway ...
Cooper himself says in Twin Peaks that MIKE (that is, Mike without his Haloperidol-based drugs) would have been a Shaman in a different setting. Mike's a decent-ish guy now, and it seems arbitrary to dismiss his conversion on the road to Damascus, although all such events are highly suspect aren't they.



LostInTheMovies wrote:And on the show he is cryptic but still helpful in providing clues for Cooper. As the show hints and the film reveals, he and Laura's spirit are allies. I can see him being a somewhat amoral force, but I don't see him as evil.


It's OK for The Little Man to help out, the game is over for Laura, she's now beyond karma - The Little Man has bigger (i.e. alive) fish to fry. Speaking of karma, perhaps The Little Man's modus operandi = incite bad / feed off the consequences of bad, and then screw over all the actual real-world human enactors of it as a way of redressing the balance and thus escaping karma.

No doubt that he's evil if you look at the exegesis (in block capitals) for this excerpt of Missing Pieces: https://youtu.be/sExXXC16SbU?t=235 (note: the sequence of events in the video was reversed by the uploader, you need to read the notes in reverse order)

Rami Airola wrote:The Little Man giving "clues" to Cooper doesn't necessarily mean anything. He could very well be something like Hannibal Lecter who gives clues to Clarice even if he still is as evil as he has always been.


Yeah that's another perspective: It could be ego, an extension of being bad and uncaring, just wanting to be the centre of attention. Milking every last drop out of the crisis re: Laura.



LostInTheMovies wrote:As for the giant & the Little Man...I go back & forth on this but I kind of like the idea that when he giant says "one and the same" he isn't ONLY referring to he room-service waiter, he's maybe also referring to the Little Man.


A lot's been said about that. One thing: Perhaps the Giant was tracing Cooper's thoughts, that the Giant is a good spirit, what's he doing in the Black Lodge? And so the Giant butts in to explain that both the Black and White lodges are the same location (others have said that the Black & White lodges are both the same).

Still, it's all up in the air for me, way too cryptic.



Rami Airola wrote:How is the Little Man battling against Bob? All he does is he unites with the One-Armed Man to get the garmonbozia from Bob. I think they unite because as it was said in the series, the only one Bob is afraid of is Mike.


Agree. The Little Man is a hunting partner of Bob's.
Maybe the Little Man has that special connection with Mike, being his arm.
Maybe MIKE and The Little Man probably both possessed Mike.
MIKE became a good spirit but still, everybody does bad things from time to time, and maybe revisiting The Little Man was a relapse for MIKE. I'm not just ad hoc-ing here, this is how we all are.

As for the Garmonbozia, surely that's just out and out evil? I don't get why MIKE wants any if he's changed his ways.
Maybe like a drug addiction, Garmonbozia's just pure evil. Maybe MIKE can't get over the addiction (just like an addict popping by his former dealer's house).
Or: Maybe it's an essential food for all ethereal beings BUT: the source doesn't have to be humans, it could also be from the suffering of fellow evil spirits hence OK for good MIKE to eat.



Rami Airola wrote:If what Mike said is true, I wonder if we ever see who God and The Devilish One are. If he wasn't lying, then in the world of Twin Peaks there is God, something that is the ultimate authority, the highest of all that is good. And there is someone Devilish who has been the ultimate influence for Mike when he was still evil. I don't think he meant Bob, as he said "I too have been touched by the devilish one", so I think Bob was also touched by that same being. What if The Little Man actually is the Devilish One? What if Bob also cut his arm off, there would be another Little Man walking around? Oh my, what if the Doppelganger of The Little Man is actually the arm of Bob! :shock:


The tattoo, as l recall, was some sort of talisman, l think MIKE describes it as a geometric pattern? So, that would make The Little Man = The Devil himself, because the tattoo is really just an extension of "The Devilish One", just like a foreign embassy is actually an extension of the country which it represents. That would explain The Little Man's iconic red dress, like a red devil?



Jonatan Silva wrote:key to understanding Laura's murder and where Bon and Mike came from. We know who killed Laura but it's not clear why it happened.


I read that all of the spirits came from a planet itself named Garmonbozia, which is full of corn plants. I read that "Garmon" = seed or little plant, or growing, like "germination", and "Bozia" = corn? Interesting results translating "Bozia" into different languages e.g. Basque, Polish etc.

It wouldn't be the first myth about aliens preying on humans. Earth girls are easy, Mars needs women, something like that.
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Re: Episode 8 (Season 2 Premiere)

Postby Aerozhul » Sun Feb 05, 2017 3:07 pm

On this rewatch, this episode seems to be a bit of a mess, sorry if that's blasphemous. It is definitely my least favorite Lynch episode. Of course, I love the Coop / Waiter / Giant stuff, but it goes downhill after that. Lots of sitting around talking, lots of exposition, dreary cinematography (One Eyed Jacks and Great Northern scenes excluded), and overlong. After the tight pace of the first season, this seems unfocused and bloated. The saving grace tbough, is the incredible diner scene between the Major and Bobby. I'm not an emotional guy at all, but this scene gets me every time. Beautiful.
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Re: Episode 8 (Season 2 Premiere)

Postby Jonah » Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:34 pm

Having rewatched all of the first season, I've begun my rewatch of Season 2. I gulped Episodes 3 through 7 and went straight into this one, ultimately only watching half of it so far.

This is one of my favourite episodes of the entire series, grouped alongside the Pilot, Episode 14, and Episode 29.

The opening credits to this episode are different. They're much longer and there's some new footage, including a longer shot of the (don't know the term) machine cutting the wood. The title appears here too (instead of over the shot of the town sign), along with Kyle MacLachlan and Michael Ontkean's names. There's more names added to the main titles now, including Kimmy Robertson's and others (assuming this happened when contracts were signed for the second season renewal). And they've added the shot of the water in the woods from Episode 4 (after Leo and Ben Horne were speaking), dissolving into this and the music growing creepier, before cutting to an ominous shot of the hotel and "Directed by David Lynch". I love all of this!

The opening scene with Cooper and the waiter and the Giant is amazing. I love that the new series also opened with Cooper and the Giant. And I love the snow, snail-like pace here, when the audience must have been on the edge of their seats hoping to get a resolution to who shot Coop (which we won't get for another 15 or so episodes and by then many people may have forgotten it even happened!). I may not like the pace of the new series so far, but I always liked when Lynch incorporated really slow scenes like this into his episodes.

(Will have more to add.)
Actually, now that some time has passed, I like "The full blossom of the evening".
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Re: Episode 8 (Season 2 Premiere)

Postby The Gazebo » Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:28 pm

Jonah wrote:The opening scene with Cooper and the waiter and the Giant is amazing.


I've scratched my head to try and remember what it was like back in 1990, and I've got two points to make:

1. To me, it felt like a natural continuation of the series (Only in recent years have I learned of the alienating effect this scene had on the "coffee and pie" brigade, and I now see why this is the case)
2. This is the episode that turned me from a lover of TP to a teenager absolutely OBSESSED with it.
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Re: Episode 8 (Season 2 Premiere)

Postby mtwentz » Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:14 pm

The Gazebo wrote:
Jonah wrote:The opening scene with Cooper and the waiter and the Giant is amazing.


I've scratched my head to try and remember what it was like back in 1990, and I've got two points to make:

1. To me, it felt like a natural continuation of the series (Only in recent years have I learned of the alienating effect this scene had on the "coffee and pie" brigade, and I now see why this is the case)
2. This is the episode that turned me from a lover of TP to a teenager absolutely OBSESSED with it.


This is still my favorite episode of the entire original series.
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Re: Episode 8 (Season 2 Premiere)

Postby The Gazebo » Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:41 pm

mtwentz wrote:
The Gazebo wrote:
Jonah wrote:The opening scene with Cooper and the waiter and the Giant is amazing.


I've scratched my head to try and remember what it was like back in 1990, and I've got two points to make:

1. To me, it felt like a natural continuation of the series (Only in recent years have I learned of the alienating effect this scene had on the "coffee and pie" brigade, and I now see why this is the case)
2. This is the episode that turned me from a lover of TP to a teenager absolutely OBSESSED with it.


This is still my favorite episode of the entire original series.


If I have understood correctly, millions of viewers tuned out before the TP's Sheriff's Departement turned up at the scene. Anyway, I know that some viewers/critics see this episode as only partially successful. To me, it has so many brilliant elements. The intro, the waiter, the giant, the smiling bag, Albert's "emotions" during big Ed's story, Leland's "rebirth", Leland, Ben and Jerry dancing, Andy's "Rosenflower"-scene, the Major Briggs/Bobby-scene, and of course, that terrifying ending (which I only partially saw from behind my own palms at the time).
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Re: Episode 8 (Season 2 Premiere)

Postby David Locke » Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:49 am

Just rewatched this (am doing kind of a re-watch of the original series, I guess).

I've said it before but I would say that this is a great episode full of great stuff that is nonetheless probably the weakest Lynch-directed episode of the original series.

The main weak point is simply the amount of exposition that's needed to cover all the crazy events of Episode 7. Indeed this is kind of a talky episode overall - but the results can be quite good, as with Major Briggs's recounting of his vision to Bobby.

And speaking of that scene, has anybody else noticed how odd it is how still the patrons glimpsed behind Briggs are while he speaks? They are almost completely still, and hardly appear to be eating/drinking, or talking unless they're only moving their mouth and nothing else! I have to imagine this was deliberate direction on Lynch's part because they really do seem almost like statues at first glimpse and I think it feeds nicely into the feeling of otherworldly peace and Zen stillness that Briggs is revealing with his monologue.

Another low point of the episode for me would be the hospital setting - it's just a bit bland-looking compared to all the other moody TP locales. Plus, all those hospital-food jokes are ridiculous. There's like 10 of them at least, I swear! It's the definition of beating a dead, never-funny horse. But not something that takes up much time at all, so it's alright.

When considering the amount of plot stuff Lynch had to get out of the way here, it's pretty admirable and makes the episode more worth appreciating despite its flaws. But still, would definitely take the underrated Ep 9, the Pilot, and of course the perfection of Ep 2, 14 and 29 over this one here.
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Re: Episode 8 (Season 2 Premiere)

Postby Jonah » Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:01 pm

Back to my rewatch after getting sidelined for a couple of weeks.

Just rewatched the second half of this episode.

All round this is just a great episode, aces all the way.

One thing I noticed that made me think of the most recent episode of the new series - when the giant bids Cooper farewell, a ball of light floats out of his body. And of course in the new series we see him produce a ball of light featuring Laura.
Actually, now that some time has passed, I like "The full blossom of the evening".
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Re: Episode 8 (Season 2 Premiere)

Postby Snailhead » Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:13 pm

Yeah, I think I agree that it's the weakest Lynch-directed episode - lots of great moments, but way too much exposition, and the hospital food gag doesn't land for me at all.

That being said, I am conflicted, because Ronette's vision is utterly iconic to me - one of my absolute favourite moments of the series, as well as Lynch's career.
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Re: Episode 8 (Season 2 Premiere)

Postby Jonah » Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:19 am

The main problem with this episode is probably that it's overlong and, as has been pointed out, has a lot of recaps. However, I think the recapping is mostly done in a stylish way, such as the long, lingering shot of donuts, interspersed with trees and other footage, is a great moment. This episode is full of great stuff - a lot of wonderful highlights, including the Briggs scene, the aforementioned donuts scene, the opening scene, the closing scene, so much good stuff - but I agree it does drag a little and some parts don't fully work or are overplayed. Overall, though, I think it's a great episode.
Actually, now that some time has passed, I like "The full blossom of the evening".

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