Episode 15

Moderators: Annie, BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne, Brad D

User avatar
LostInTheMovies
Posts: 1557
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:48 pm

Episode 15

Postby LostInTheMovies » Fri Apr 10, 2015 10:51 pm

Let's talk Leland/Bob's manic maneuvers, Ben as the suspect, MT Wentz's arrival (actually let's not) and whatever else you want to analyze, discuss, or criticize from this episode.
User avatar
Jonah
Posts: 760
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:39 am

Re: Episode 15

Postby Jonah » Thu May 21, 2015 11:19 am

I don't think this episode entirely worked but it's one I'm quite fond of and has always stayed fresh in my memory. I love the scenes of Leland singing "Surrey With a Fringe On Top" and being pursued by Coop/Truman, and later Leland in the Great Northern - although at times it felt like these scenes with Leland containing Bob were in danger of veering away from suspense and eeriness into camp or OTT comedy. I also really enjoyed the sequences of Lara Flynn Boyle and Leland in this episode. I would have been intrigued to see Donna either being killed or stalked in more depth by Bob and the parallels to her friendship with Laura. Though brief, I like what we got. And I think that moment with Donna walking away from the house in tears is one of Donna's finest moment, so much felt and realized in that short sequence, I wish it had been expanded on. She clearly knows Leland killed Laura or at least suspects. I also liked the golf balls, the eerie bit of Maddy stuffed in the bag. So overall, all this stuff makes for an episode that has a lot going for it, but the tone wasn't always quite right.

As for the other stuff ... MT Wentz, ugh. And I know a lot of people like Erine but, for me ... also ugh. Groan-inducing.
Last edited by Jonah on Thu May 11, 2017 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Actually, now that some time has passed, I like "The full blossom of the evening".
User avatar
LostInTheMovies
Posts: 1557
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:48 pm

Re: Episode 15

Postby LostInTheMovies » Thu May 21, 2015 4:46 pm

Mostly agreed - but I think you're thinking of episode 16 with some of the Donna stuff (like Leland grabbing her, and her walking from the house in tears). I know she sees all the golf balls in this episode but I'm not sure if she has any other scenes with him.

Jonah wrote:And I know a lot of people like Erine


They do?!

but, for me ... also ugh. Groan-inducing.


Agreed!
User avatar
LostInTheMovies
Posts: 1557
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:48 pm

Re: Episode 15

Postby LostInTheMovies » Thu May 21, 2015 4:46 pm

Redundant post. (Man, my computer keeps doing this! Or is it the site?)
Last edited by LostInTheMovies on Thu May 21, 2015 8:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Jonah
Posts: 760
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:39 am

Re: Episode 15

Postby Jonah » Thu May 21, 2015 4:59 pm

Ah you're right, weird how those Donna scenes merge into Episode 15 in my mind, even though I recently watched the whole show again earlier this year and have seen it countless times.

(And typo alert: I meant Ernie of course, not Erine!)
Last edited by Jonah on Thu May 11, 2017 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Actually, now that some time has passed, I like "The full blossom of the evening".
User avatar
LostInTheMovies
Posts: 1557
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:48 pm

Twin Peaks Out of Order #18: Episode 15

Postby LostInTheMovies » Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:34 am

Re-watching Twin Peaks from my least favorite to favorite episode...

Previously: Episode 11 (http://www.dugpa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=43459#p43459)

For two episodes in the middle of its run - maybe only an episode and a half - Twin Peaks exists as a very different show than it was before or afterwards. The narrative viewpoint is aligned more with Leland than Cooper. We are no longer driven by mystery, because we know that Laura was killed by Leland, who is possessed in some capacity by a spirit named Bob (we are not yet certain about the nature of that possession). But we are still driven by investigation, because Coop and Truman have not yet discovered the culprit. Ben is their lead suspect, an aspect of the case played mostly for laughs as Pete humiliates the disgraced mogul and Jerry offers his brother a lackluster legal defense. As with other episodes in this rewatch, 15 thrives out of context. At times I was surprised that it placed so low on my list. Ray Wise tears into his juicy part with gusto, the Richard Beymer-David Patrick Kelly dynamic is hilarious as always, Al Strobel continues to command the camera, and Kyle MacLachlan's troubled and troublesome chemistry with Sherilyn Fenn shines again in the penultimate scene, which was probably my favorite on this viewing. I also have a real soft spot for the Hook Rug Dance (on my first watch-through this was one of the last scenes in the series to really capture that "Twin Peaks magic" for me) and there are several excellent sequences with Leland - first when his fake sobs dissolve into maniacal snickers while a suspicious Cooper stands behind him, and later as he weaves back and forth on the road, singing “Surrey with the Fringe on Top” and nearly crashing into a gated golf course. But somehow it's that near-final moment in the Great Northern that whispers to us of all the things the show once promised to be, and occasionally fulfilled. Cooper is alone, speaking to Diane while sitting shirtless on his bed, stomach wound exposed. This allows us to glimpse the vulnerability beneath his confident exterior in a way that doesn't feel as cheap or tawdry as the FBI suspension and Windom Earle plotlines frequently do. Then Audrey comes knocking, and her visit serves to remind us that their connection was always more about star-crossed desire than One True Pairing. I don't think their relationship should have ever been consummated, but if it was, it would have to be deeply tied into Cooper's downfall. What Audrey longs for in this scene, even if she doesn't quite know it, is less a romantic partner than a father figure, and Cooper, meanwhile, may be looking for a reassuring crutch (a Diane in the flesh, whom he can embrace as well as talk to). Also powering this scene along is the evocative sound design - something Caleb Deschanel thrives with (see his use of wind rustling the plastic in Shelly's house back in episode 6). This time that eerie noise is the night air whistling at Cooper's open window, the darkness of the woods calling out even to those shut away in a comfortable, if temporary, home. Watched in its normal order, immediately after the titanic achievement of the killer's reveal, 15 can seem like a letdown, its tone a little too wacky for the horror we've just witnessed, its narrative uneven (and to be fair, the Norma's mom/Ernie Niles/Lucy's sister stuff does feel like a new low). Watched this way, however, before the best episodes and after the worst, its strengths become more apparent. Fleetingly at least, episode 15 is a poignant promise of what Twin Peaks could have been, if it had just had more faith in itself.

Next: Episode 1 (http://www.dugpa.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=43717#p43717)
User avatar
David Locke
Posts: 300
Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:24 pm

Re: Episode 15

Postby David Locke » Sat Jun 11, 2016 7:19 pm

Mid-tier Peaks, this episode feels like more of a placeholder than anything. In fact, Episode 16 may be much better, all things considered. The problem is that there's so much fluff in here (Norma's mom/Hank/Ernie/Lucy's sister) that sits so uncomfortably next to the darker and more compelling stuff -- and there isn't even much of the latter. This episode is not nearly as great as I had remembered. For being the episode after Maddy's death, everything is terribly hum-drum in a way, everybody just going about their lives, and I don't think this can be explained away as being a product of Coop not knowing yet. More than any episode yet in S2, this one hints at the lows to which the show would soon go: it's the first episode in which the show truly feels cleaved in two.
User avatar
TwinPeaksFanatic
Posts: 118
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:37 pm
Location: Central. NJ
Contact:

Re: Episode 15

Postby TwinPeaksFanatic » Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:37 pm

Episode 15 offers a bit of lighter fare amongst some of the heaviest episodes of the series and I really like it. I wrote a recap for the episode here --- >

http://twinpeaksfanatic.blogspot.com/20 ... de-15.html

:D
User avatar
Mr. Reindeer
Posts: 1551
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Episode 15

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:58 pm

This episode is indeed part of a unique two-episode stretch of the show like nothing before or after -- and this one is the "purer" example of what that version of the series might have been, since Episode 16 (love it or not) is so encumbered by the enormous baggage of its particular place in the narrative. I don't fully agree with LostintheMovies that these two episodes temporarily switch the series to a Leland-centric viewpoint, however. I think it's more a Coop/Leland split (even then, I think it leans slightly more towards Coop). However, this one does present a tantalizing view of a version of the series resembling Bryan Fuller's Hannibal (sans the love story subtext), where the show might have gotten at least a half-season out of Coop & Leland playing a cat-and-mouse game. In fact, Leland in this episode feels almost like a proto-Windom Earle. While Wise knocks it out of the park far more consistently than Kenneth Welsh, there is an undeniable camp to the proceedings here that feels rather cheap when considered in the context of the underlying tragedy (unsurprisingly, DKL handled Leland's balance between quirkiness and menace much more effectively in FWWM). Still, a back-half season 2 with Leland in Earle's place, if handled well, might have been far more satisfying, and felt more of a piece with what came before, than the hasty wrap-up we got to his storyline.

Random freeze-frame note #1: When Coop flips through Laura's diary, we can clearly read a handwritten version of the 7/23/84 entry from Jennifer Lynch's Secret Diary book (i.e., the "Waltzin' Matilda" dream). This effectively canonizes Jupiter the cat into the series, since his name is glimpsed onscreen for a few frames!

Random freeze-frame note #2: When Coop & Harry pull Leland over by the golf course, a gateway sign is prominently visible behind them: "APMGC." This was presumably the actual filming location, the Alondra Park Men's Golf Club (in El Camino, Ca.). Perhaps it was completely unintended, but at this time Coop & Harry are searching for the One-Armed Man, and the sign has Phillip Michael Gerard's initials in the middle of it!
KHAN Games
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2017 4:26 pm
Location: Crestview, FL
Contact:

Re: Episode 15

Postby KHAN Games » Thu May 04, 2017 9:00 am

I have a question, and I feel a little out of place because this board is filled with lots of Peaks pros who have seen the show a hundred times, and this is only my second viewing. I am loving seeing things develop again though, now that I know the direction everything goes.

My question is about Laura's mom. At the end of episode 14, during the murder, she is crawling down the stairs and lying on the floor, seeing the horse, etc. I assumed it was because she was being attacked by Leland also. But in episode 15 she is perfectly happy upstairs talking to Leland as if nothing ever happened. Did I miss something? I was hoping someone mentioned something in this thread about it, but I didn't see anyone comment on it.
User avatar
Mr. Reindeer
Posts: 1551
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:09 pm

Re: Episode 15

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Thu May 04, 2017 9:58 am

KHAN Games wrote:I have a question, and I feel a little out of place because this board is filled with lots of Peaks pros who have seen the show a hundred times, and this is only my second viewing. I am loving seeing things develop again though, now that I know the direction everything goes.

My question is about Laura's mom. At the end of episode 14, during the murder, she is crawling down the stairs and lying on the floor, seeing the horse, etc. I assumed it was because she was being attacked by Leland also. But in episode 15 she is perfectly happy upstairs talking to Leland as if nothing ever happened. Did I miss something? I was hoping someone mentioned something in this thread about it, but I didn't see anyone comment on it.


Leland drugs her when he kills, rapes etc. This is clearer in the movie Fire Walk with Me (which you should ABSOLUTELY watch if you haven't seen it), but Coop also references this at the beginning of Episode 17.
User avatar
The Gazebo
Posts: 273
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:34 pm
Location: Norway

Re: Episode 15

Postby The Gazebo » Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:14 pm

Retcon in this episode?

I didn't find anything about the topic in this thread, but maybe this has been discussed in other threads. If so, my apologies.

One of the mirror scenes with Leland/Bob has been changed from the original run.

When Leland sends James and Donna on their way early in the episode, he has a look into the mirror. In the original run (which I videotaped) and in The Complete Mystery, Leland looks into the mirror - Bob appears with a "neutral" face - before Leland shakes his head (and then replies to the Glenn Miller-night question from Sarah). However, in the latest version (HBO Nordic in my case), Leland doesn't appear in the mirror at all. It's just Bob, initially with the same "neutral" face, before he cracks into a smile. Leland isn't shown at all in the mirror, but you can still see the back of his head shaking at the end of the shot (as in the original version). Clearly, this is an edited/updated version which fits into Lynch's vision in FWWM. In the series, Leland was portrayed as a victim, while in FWWM he's more resonsible for his crimes. Has anyone else picked up on this?
User avatar
Jonah
Posts: 760
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:39 am

Re: Episode 15

Postby Jonah » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:30 am

After the powerful Episode 14, this is an episode that is surprisingly almost upbeat - but it almost works.

I love the opening shot of the Palmer house at night with the screams cutting to the tree branch and the house the next morning.

Here we get Leland in full Bob mode, Ray Wise almost seeming to gleefully delight in the menace of his character. This is the most we've probably seen Bob to date, appearing here in the mirror in several shots.

Along with Maddy's murder, a few of these scenes of Leland seeing Bob in the mirror are what most stuck in my head as a child until I got to start rewatching the show as an adult. I wonder did I ever even see Episode 14 or did I just see Episode 15 and the previously on sequence showing Maddy's murder or did I see 14 and 15 close together? Either way, those scenes and the picture of Laura Palmer in the closing credits are my earliest memories of the show.

So obviously this episode is a step down in quality from the previous one - and you could argue that maybe it's played both too upbeat and too tongue-in-cheek, but I think the lightness here (in the Leland scenes) almost works in a sinister way. I don't think it quite downplays the horror of the previous episode, but seems to highlight just how strange and twisted this world is. Though obviously a darker and perhaps Lynch-directed hour would have been ideal.

The pan of the photos of Laura's photos seems almost cruel, as does Sarah calling to Leland - not to mention him telling Donna and James that Maddy was disappointed they didn't call over. Is this Bob in control (yes, we see him in the mirror) but is this Bob or is this the cruel side of Leland? He almost seems to be delighting in his nastiness.

The Ben/Jerry scene in the jail is great - and the hook rug/flashlight dance flashback along with the line "What's become of us?" feels very Lynch. Wonderful scene.

Lucy's sister Gwen - these scenes don't belong in an episode immediately following 14, they seem more like mid-season fare, but I almost liked Gwen "people like bad things to happen to you" on this latest rewatch.

The cat-and-mouse scenes with Cooper and Leland are interesting here. I might have liked to see these play out a little longer. I love the sequence in the hotel, with Cooper almost seeming to sense something and the pan down the hallway to Leland. And was Leland really going to attack Cooper with golf club? It certainly looked like it.

The scenes with Norma and her mother and Ernie aren't awful - yet - but they seem like they belong in another show, and again sequences like this seem beyond bizarre in an episode immediately following 14.

I like the scene with Pete and Ben in the Sheriff's Station and Catherine on the tape recorder. Ditto the scene with the one armed man smelling Ben.

And the Audrey/Cooper scene in Room 315 is lovely!

The final shot of Maddy being found by the waterfall is strong - though perhaps it could have been stronger. Though seeing her wrapped in plastic again is definitely powerful and really highlights how the series tended to revel in showing doubles.

All in all, the highlights here are the Leland scenes, and it's an episode that should have been a lot better - but almost works at times.

Question - what are the shoes in Leland's trunk in this episode? Are they supposed to just be golf shoes? They look very much like Audrey's saddle shoes from the pilot. I rewinded to Episode 14 to see if Maddy was wearing them when she was attacked, but she's not.
Actually, now that some time has passed, I like "The full blossom of the evening".

Return to “Season 2 (1990-1991)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests