Part 10 - Laura is the one (SPOILERS)

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Firewalkwithme91
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Re: Part 10 - Laura is the one (SPOILERS)

Postby Firewalkwithme91 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:35 pm

Richard Horne being Audrey´s and Doppelcoop´s child would make the most sense and would´ve the most impact on me. In the end the only thing I care about is an interesting and fascinating story and if characters that we love have to suffer for it, so be it. :mrgreen:


But yeah in a world where people can actually be manufactured beings, we can also prepare ourselves for reveals that could come totally out of the left field. Up until now the narrative has been pretty straightforward by slowly putting all the pieces together. and doiling out information. But maybe there´s a shocking twist coming that would totally change our perception of everything that occured until now. I mean when I first watched the original show I didn´t guess that Leland was the killer at all and "Lonely Souls" felt like a game-changing episode that really made re-evaluate my perception of what kind of story that I was watching all this time really was.
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Re: Part 10 - Laura is the one (SPOILERS)

Postby AudreyHorne » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:40 pm

Jacob wrote:By the way, you talk in another post about her relationship with Sonny Jim, and I can't help to remember the scene where I started to think -- it was pretty brutal -- that she wasn't a good person at all. Strangely, that's also when a lot of people started precisely to like her. It's when she's meeting Jeremy Davies and the other guy to give them the money (in Part 5).
Even if, thanks to Dougie, she has now a lot more than what they ask, and even if Dougie's life is at stake, she has to negociate : she's just thinking about herself and is always wanting more. And I loved how about at the end of sequence she was saying "You're why the world is shit" or something like that, because to me it was obviously ironic : meaning that SHE was the kind of people who makes the world a shitty place. Jeremy Davies himself didn't want to negociate, he was pretty reasonnable, he wasn't greedy. She was. The "Mother". Not the gangsters. I think this sequence is pivotal in how you perceive the character. I guess the one who find her in this sequence "bad ass" find the sex scene from Part 10 romantic.

I have to admit that the scene with the money was one of the few scenes where I liked Janey-E because it was kind of fun watching her intimidating the criminals and her annoying personality was finally doing some good. However, your argument why you don't like her in that scene is very interesting and I think I have to rewatch it with this in mind. There's also a scene in a later episode where she complains to Dougie that they can't afford a better car because of his gambling (even though he won as much money as he lost, if I remember correctly). I really disliked her in part 6 where she forgot about him and he is brought home by an officer. She knows he is in this catatonic state but doesn't worry when he doesn't return home after work? She just forgets him? It seems to me that she doesn't care about him at all.



A few more thoughts about the episode.

I really liked the scene that showed Albert and Constance having dinner, it tied nicely with the subtle hints like them eying each other and Albert being "indisposed" from last episode.

Ike's attack on Dougie was all over the news and they showed Dougie's face. His enemies saw him on the news but why didn't any of his friends find out about him? Doesn't anyone from the Twin Peaks Sheriff's Department or the FBI watch the news? When EvilCoop surfaced, Gordon was notified so why doesn't that happen with Dougie?

What was up with Candie and the Mitchums? She seemed to mess up all the time but Bradley said they couldn't fire her because she had no place to go. Why do they care? They had no problem beating up and firing Burns when he messed up, what is so special about Candie? Is she somehow related to them or do they feel obligated to her for some other reason?

Richard Horne really seemed like the spawn of evil this episode and since it seems more likely that he is Audrey's son rather than Johnny's, I fear he might also be the doubleganger's son. It seems unlikely they will bring up John Justice Wheeler again and the doubleganger being the father might be an explanation why Richard is so horrible. But I don't know why everyone thinks this theory necessarily means that EvilCooper raped Audrey while she was in a coma. He might have been in intensive care to check on Audrey because he was interested in the people that Cooper cares about. It's possible that he and Audrey met again after she woke up. Maybe he raped her then or maybe she thought he was the real Cooper and consented. Another possibility is that he corrupted her. I don't like to think of the possibility that Audrey might have become a bad person, but wouldn't it be tragic if EvilCooper went to the people that Cooper really cared about, who were good and kind (like Audrey and Diane), and he somehow corrupted them?

The scene with Richard, Sylvia and Johnny was really messed up. If he needed money, he could have threatened and robbed any other family, but he chose to do this to his own grandmother. She was clearly afraid when he approached the house, so it probably wasn't the first time he did something bad to his family. I'm wondering if he did something to Audrey and if that's the reason why we haven't seen her yet. Maybe something that left physical and/or mental scars or maybe she left town because he threatened to hurt her. This is a bit far fetched, but maybe he hurt her so bad that she is in a wheelchair and she changed her name to Linda to stand back from her old life or to hide from Richard.

By the way, did Richard kill the man who was supposed to meet with Andy but didn't show up? And was Richard the one who stole Jerry's car?
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Re: Part 10 - Laura is the one (SPOILERS)

Postby Cipher » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:43 pm

LateReg wrote:But why, when we know Lynch's history as a filmmaker, and we know Twin Peaks' history as a series that started out with a woman as an object and then turned her into a full fledged human being in the prequel film, do we need this particular film to resolve the issues he raises? Why is it not enough to depict the evil? To represent it as a cycle of abuse in the midst of a larger tale that is also about many other things? I believe that there will be a beautiful uprising in The Return, but I don't demand it to make sense of what we've already seen. That's why I was asking why it matters to you. And yes, I do understand that every work must stand on its own and can't rely on past works of the director to explain it, but still, why can't we just look at it as an ongoing cycle of abuse, and how would we feel if it remained just that? Moot point, in my opinion, as I don't think any of this is worth getting worked up over and, like you, I believe Lynch has a plan here. Thank you for your good thoughts on the matter.

This might have been addressed through some subsequent posts (this thread can be difficult to read through), but if I had to boil down the difference in my reactions to his movies vs. this part and where The Return stands at this point, I might say that I don't see his films, particularly FWWM and Empire, as presenting women as objects, whereas The Return so far tows the line. I don't think it's enough simply to depict the evil if it isn't presented with pathos or honesty, or if it runs the risk of reducing women to responses to, or victims of, violence. The personal lens versus the distanced pattern makes a big difference there, and the former counter-intuitively has more universal resonance. Viscerally, at this point, FWWM and Empire seem to scream, "This is how it feels to be a woman in a predatory world; isn't that awful?", whereas The Return so far, without a response that might yet come, seems to simply be stating, "Women live in a predatory world and there isn't much else to define them. Make something of it." That's less powerful and, I think, less honest.

I'm definitely repeating things I've said in other posts now, but I wanted to respond directly to your question. And yes, I do trust Lynch enough as an artist, even with gender dynamics, to believe this could all make emotional and intellectual sense as part of a whole, so at this point I'm only noting my attention being drawn to an element that doesn't yet feel like it's tracking.

And again, this is my intellectualized viewpoint as a man, so if female viewers are responding to what this is doing and feel like it's presenting something worthwhile, it's not my place to argue; just a concern I have at this point, and something I feel is a bit different from his films.
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Re: Part 10 - Laura is the one (SPOILERS)

Postby Esselgee » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:11 pm

BigEd wrote:I noticed in the credits last night that Becky is now listed with Steven's last name (I think it is Burnett). IIRC, I think she was only listed as Becky in the early episode, so we were wondering if they were married.


She was definitely credited as Becky Burnett previously because that was the only way we knew she was married to, and not just dating, Steven when they first showed up.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Part 10 - Laura is the one (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:12 pm

Kudos to the poster who mentioned the "Sonny Jim"/Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf connection. I'm embarrassed it never crossed my mind....one of my favorite plays/films.

DKL is really blurring the line between Gordon and himself, first showing Cole drawing a clearly Lynch-style sketch, then playing up the director's connection to Laura despite Cole himself having no real connection to her that we know of.
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Wally Brando
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Re: Part 10 - Laura is the one (SPOILERS)

Postby Wally Brando » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:15 pm

Can someone with access to subtitles, or just better hearing than me, confirm what the Mitchum brothers said on the sofa about Dougie?

I could've sworn they made reference to 'Brando'.
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alreadygoneplaces
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Re: Part 10 - Laura is the one (SPOILERS)

Postby alreadygoneplaces » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:19 pm

More gender discussion herein....
Spoiler:
Cipher wrote:
alreadygoneplaces wrote:I'm going to have to revisit Inland Empire, I think. I'm kind of intruiged by this as I previously would never have considered Lynch's work as feminist- in fact, I'd always thought of his gender politics to be his biggest weakness- particularly when the themes of darkness/light duality converge with madonna/whore tropes. This has bothered me most with Lost Highway, Blue Velvet and Mulholland Drive (which remains one of the most impressive films I've ever seen, before I get crucified here)

*Despite all of this, I personally tend to consider interpretation to be secondary or subordinate to the experience itself. But still interesting to talk about these things.

I can see that being a potential reading in Lost Highway, Blue Velvet, and Mulholland Drive (which, coincidentally, round out the bottom half of my Lynch rankings for totally different reasons; I just find them less visceral and affecting). I think both Fire Walk With Me and Inland Empire stand out as pretty thorough rejections of the Madonna-whore dynamic and the restrictions it places on women though. Particularly Inland Empire, where the sympathetic Nikki's sole transgression before her nightmare begins is walking through a doorway (literal and figurative) that her abusive marriage tells her she shouldn't. The ending credits are more or less an all-female catharsis. Stands out to me as one of his more gendered works in an extremely positive and affecting way.

I also agree that the intellectual interpretations here are subordinate to the visceral ones, but part of what I like so much about FWWM and Empire is that the gendered elements are so communicative and visceral. Perhaps that's what's been missing from The Return so far.


I think Fire Walk With Me is a really interesting case. It gives a voice to Laura, and showing her perspective is essential for the story to function on two levels simultaneously (i.e. BOB is the killer, Leland is another victim vs. Laura is abused and murdered by her father). In S2, the former is the actual story, the latter is the subtext. Leland's death scene is incredibly sympathetic- BOB is real; Leland's pain is real. It works, but it has unpleasant implications to the subtext, which FWWM somehow manages to resolve. We're able to simultaneously see Leland as a victim of BOB, but also see this man for what he really was through Laura's eyes. The boundary between text and subtext is obliterated. On the other hand, I don't think Lynch's fixation with abused women will ever sit comfortably alongside his more lecherous and/or objectifying directorial tendencies, and that's my only real issue with that film.

I'll definitely give Inland Empire another go, it's the only Lynch film I've only seen once. It left me cold, and I never felt the urge to rewatch it, until recently.

Re: Intellectual interpretations vs. visceral - what's really interesting is how both of these modes of reception affect the other...
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Re: Part 10 - Laura is the one (SPOILERS)

Postby The Brown Lodge » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:29 pm

MoondogJR wrote:
Wonderful & Strange wrote:
Esselgee wrote:Maybe someone with access to Johnny had sex with him so she could get her hands on the Hornes' money.

The guy in the New York picture with Evil Cooper is a bald man with glasses wearing a trench coat. Can anyone identify him?


Looks like we have a mad scientist in Twin Peaks finally!


The first time I saw 'the box' it reminders me of the electricity expirements of Nicola Tesla. Then there also was e reference to Tesla on the Hastings blog.

In real life Tesla has died a long time ago, but who knows :)



And as a nice bit of trivia, Tesla was played unforgettably, by our very own Philip Jeffries in The Prestige (2006).
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Part 10 - Laura is the one (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:35 pm

bosguy1981 wrote:Allegedly, Piper Laurie missed the chance to film a scene in the new series because she wasn't waiting by the phone and on the day Lynch wanted to shoot, she was unavailable or something. Maybe the same thing happened with Bauer?


You may be conflating this with Everett McGill, who said he wouldn't have been in the show if he hadn't been at a property he owns but rarely visits when the phone rang. All I've heard about Laurie is that she denies ever being asked, whereas a member of this board who was in the know vaguely implied that she was asked and there was more to the story.

Then again, if these are his only scenes (running into walls and getting yanked around while tied to a chair, and not much of any dialogue), maybe they determined it made more sense to use a licensed stuntman? I dunno.


But we didn't even see him run into the wall! It was offscreen. Whatever went down with Bauer doesn't sit well with me. But I'm sure glad Johnny is alive at least. I was afraid the Part 9 scene was an awkward, rushed sendoff to deal with Bauer's absence. I still wonder why that scene played so strangely, but the incredible Part 10 Sylvia/Johnny scene more than makes up for it.
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Re: Part 10 - Laura is the one (SPOILERS)

Postby dud » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:53 pm

Wally Brando wrote:Can someone with access to subtitles, or just better hearing than me, confirm what the Mitchum brothers said on the sofa about Dougie?

I could've sworn they made reference to 'Brando'.


"Now I know how Brando felt"
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Re: Part 10 - Laura is the one (SPOILERS)

Postby vicksvapor77 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:55 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:Kudos to the poster who mentioned the "Sonny Jim"/Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf connection. I'm embarrassed it never crossed my mind....one of my favorite plays/films.


I'm not familiar with the story but that's wild! Do people actually think Sonny Jim doesn't physically exist? Or is the tie-in to this play just a subtle nod that he's not "real" because he's part Red Room construct? Haha.
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Re: Part 10 - Laura is the one (SPOILERS)

Postby vicksvapor77 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:55 pm

Can anyone explain the Jones/Jones reference that Brad makes? The non-TP one, that is.
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Re: Part 10 - Laura is the one (SPOILERS)

Postby vicksvapor77 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:59 pm

alreadygoneplaces wrote:
wxray wrote:
Sadly, I felt that the Steven/Becky scene was the most real of the night. Way too many abusers are people on the outside who "everyone loves."


Yeah, it was a powerful and explosive scene... While it didn't surprise me that Steven would behave that way, it was a real shock to be exposed to that side of him so brutally and suddenly.


I legitimately didn't expect him to be Leo-esque, or in this case, worse based on the limitations of the original series airing on ABC. So I guess the explosive and violent reveal was extra potent for me. Just like all of his "friends" and victims, Steven lulled me into a false sense of security in part 5! Bravo, Lynch, that's very meta of you.
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Re: Part 10 - Laura is the one (SPOILERS)

Postby alreadygoneplaces » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:07 pm

vicksvapor77 wrote:
alreadygoneplaces wrote:
wxray wrote:
Sadly, I felt that the Steven/Becky scene was the most real of the night. Way too many abusers are people on the outside who "everyone loves."


Yeah, it was a powerful and explosive scene... While it didn't surprise me that Steven would behave that way, it was a real shock to be exposed to that side of him so brutally and suddenly.


I legitimately didn't expect him to be Leo-esque, or in this case, worse based on the limitations of the original series airing on ABC. So I guess the explosive and violent reveal was extra potent for me. Just like all of his "friends" and victims, Steven lulled me into a false sense of security in part 5! Bravo, Lynch, that's very meta of you.


Indeed, when I said it didn't surprise me, it only seemed unsurprising after the fact...
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Re: Part 10 - Laura is the one (SPOILERS)

Postby wAtChLaR » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:31 pm

i actually like the discussions re: blatant misogyny vs. a reflection of a real sexist society... GOOD art is always thought provoking and challenging....

but reflecting today at work i have to say the violence is wearing a bit thin on me...and really struggling seeing how most of these narratives will be wrapped up in 8 more hours...but i have faith in frost/lynch

yes Janey is very self absorbed and egocentric and UBER controlling. i hope she was manufactured actually
Sonny JIm...that's a tough one for me...brings up a lot of childhood stuff

and this won't be popular, but i could really care less if audrey ended up in the recycle bin....sherilyn's behavior over this entire series, plus her constant proselytizing on instagram and twitter is a big fat YAWN...she's not quite in the same basket as Michael J Anderson for me...but CLOSE

i just want Laura to the ONE who destroys BOB once and for all

i am loving the series overall though and so happy it's happening
Last edited by wAtChLaR on Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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