One reason to worry about the quality of Season 3 (SPOILERS)

[Wonderful & Strange]

I worry zero about the "quality" of anything Lynch does, and much more about whether most fans, even professed Peaks fans, will approach his work with curiosity and open mindedness.

For example, I've been enjoying these FittenTrim podcasts on Twin Peaks, but despite their entertainment value, the hosts bring all sorts of narrative assumptions to the table I can't really understand. One of the hosts, Bubba, can't stand Lynch's slow pacing or Frost and Lynch's love of non-resolution. He never even thinks to acknowledge Lynch and Frost may value these things for good reasons, like estrangement.

That's fine for people to have their own narrative values, but why demand that avant garde artists like Lynch and Frost share your taste for classical and traditional narrative style?

So I'm anxious that the world hasn't really changed much since the general audience demanded that Lynch solve Laura's murder, rather than just letting the creative team explore their world.

[AXX°N N.]

avant garde artists like Lynch and Frost

I wouldn't call Frost avant-garde; his own work is conventionally plotted, and from all I've ever seen, he's the one who sets in place the conventionally-plotted (relatively!) aspects of Twin Peaks. I've even seen him explicitly name-drop Joseph Campbell, who, despite being a Joyce scholar, is the man Disney looks to when modeling the conventional (hyper-conventional!) plots of their films.

[Saturn's child]

I've even seen him explicitly name-drop Joseph Campbell, who, despite being a Joyce scholar, is the man Disney looks to when modeling the conventional (hyper-conventional!) plots of their films.

Poor JC! Sullied by Disney associations...
I have a few books of his, but I always get more of a Lynch vibe when he starts talking numbers/numerology or Vishnu.

[AXX°N N.]

I've even seen him explicitly name-drop Joseph Campbell, who, despite being a Joyce scholar, is the man Disney looks to when modeling the conventional (hyper-conventional!) plots of their films.

Poor JC! Sullied by Disney associations...
I have a few books of his, but I always get more of a Lynch vibe when he starts talking numbers/numerology or Vishnu.

For sure, as the esoteric qualities of his writings and interests don't quite appeal to the mass, international audience Disney strives for when using his studies to backward engineer max revenue.

[underthefan]

I'm in the school of if it's anything like FWWM (which all signs point to), then it will definitely be to my liking. I have no worries about it in the least. But yeah, if you consider FWWM to be an artistic failure, you're in for a rough ride...

[mlsstwrt]

I'm in the school of if it's anything like FWWM (which all signs point to), then it will definitely be to my liking. I have no worries about it in the least. But yeah, if you consider FWWM to be an artistic failure, you're in for a rough ride...

I made a post above that I don't like the idea of celebrities in Twin Peaks. But I like FWWM at least as much as the series, probably more, in spite of the presence of Bowie and Isaak. I wonder if I'd feel differently if those guys had been in the town of Twin Peaks, rather than just the universe of Twin Peaks. I don't know.

Those of you saying you're fine with known names being in the TP universe, I'm curious, is there any limit? If Tom Cruise/Brad Pitt/Angelina Jolie were cast would you not find that seeing those names would pull you out of the experience? It's a hypothetical I know, I'm just curious.

[underthefan]

I'm in the school of if it's anything like FWWM (which all signs point to), then it will definitely be to my liking. I have no worries about it in the least. But yeah, if you consider FWWM to be an artistic failure, you're in for a rough ride...

I made a post above that I don't like the idea of celebrities in Twin Peaks. But I like FWWM at least as much as the series, probably more, in spite of the presence of Bowie and Isaak. I wonder if I'd feel differently if those guys had been in the town of Twin Peaks, rather than just the universe of Twin Peaks. I don't know.

Those of you saying you're fine with known names being in the TP universe, I'm curious, is there any limit? If Tom Cruise/Brad Pitt/Angelina Jolie were cast would you not find that seeing those names would pull you out of the experience? It's a hypothetical I know, I'm just curious.

Personally, I would have no problem with any kind of celebrity in TP (and I think that Bowie/Isaak analogy is apt), because I feel that Lynch could get a performance out of them unlike anything they had done previously, and perhaps show off qualities in an actor you wouldn't even think they possess. But as far as big name actors in the new TP, I think most of them (other than Dern and Watts) will be one-two scenes only, so no reason for concern.

[laughingpinecone]

I made a post above that I don't like the idea of celebrities in Twin Peaks. But I like FWWM at least as much as the series, probably more, in spite of the presence of Bowie and Isaak. I wonder if I'd feel differently if those guys had been in the town of Twin Peaks, rather than just the universe of Twin Peaks. I don't know.

Those of you saying you're fine with known names being in the TP universe, I'm curious, is there any limit? If Tom Cruise/Brad Pitt/Angelina Jolie were cast would you not find that seeing those names would pull you out of the experience? It's a hypothetical I know, I'm just curious.

Perks of being faceblind as a faceblind bat, I guess, these things bother me a lot less than average (as do recasts). BUT may I point to this litmus example, which worked, so, really, anyone else probably would and will work just as well:

[Skip Bittman]

The original series relied on very strong actors who were not necessarily mainstream and I think that was very important for the immersion aspect.

I don't think that's true at all. The brilliant casting drew from all kinds of popular TV and film and even threw in little jokes referencing it. Just because you weren't familiar with the cast's work doesn't mean audiences at the time of broadcast weren't.

Immersion aspect? Is this a video game? Are we talking about the show that poked fun at itself with a show within a show?

[Agent327]

The original series relied on very strong actors who were not necessarily mainstream and I think that was very important for the immersion aspect.

That is very true. Even though a couple of the actors in the original series weren't completely unknown, they were not mainstream celebrities.

What worries me more though is the shoehorning in of a very old cast, where the original had total freedom to create the ideal show.
There were no obligations if terms of loyalty to actors who may not even fit certain roles anymore, no element of fan expectations etc.
The original series could therefor cast a series that came with an energy and a degree of mass appeal that I think is out of the question this time.

Another concern is Cooper. I really look forward to following him during this series, but as Kyle has said, Cooper is a different guy in this new series.
He has changed as a person.
From that it would be logical to conclude that he wont be the same as the wide eyed, fresh faced optimistic detective that every Twin Peaks fan fell in love with over those exact character traits. Imagine the first series without those traits in Cooper, and you have a WAY less appealing show.

Also I do worry about the gray, cold digital look of the show that we've seen from the teaser featuring actual footage from the show.
Polar opposite of the original series.
One of the main reasons why TP is dear to many people's hearts, is the mix of that 'rosy' film aesthetic, combined with terrifying horror and mystique.
The most beautiful dream and the most terrible nightmare at once.
Removing that warm saturated organic film look will make that house of cards collapse in terms of overall appeal.

All in all, I feel the show will be an experience, and I really can't wait to have that experience. Counting the days!

I just don't think it will become a "watch again and again" kind of treasure that the original was, due to some of the choices mentioned.

Even though this is a 'worries' thread, I will just add that one thing that makes me feel good:

The dumb, unnecessary, boring and artistically lazy elements of the 4-5 bad episodes from the original series season 2 will be totally absent.
Those were within a certain genre of missteps that WILL not occur show under Lynch's control.

[SpookyDollhouse]

What matters are their performances.

[Mr. Reindeer]

The original series relied on very strong actors who were not necessarily mainstream and I think that was very important for the immersion aspect.

I don't think that's true at all. The brilliant casting drew from all kinds of popular TV and film and even threw in little jokes referencing it. Just because you weren't familiar with the cast's work doesn't mean audiences at the time of broadcast weren't.

This. Laurie was a three-time Oscar nominee, Chen was fresh off of a major role in a Best Picture winner. Peggy Lipton had starred in a hit TV series, 20 years earlier but still in recent memory. I think those three at least are roughly comparable to whatever "big names" people might be worrying about (Chamberlain? Cera? Jim Belushi? Musicians who may not even be playing characters? As far as I'm concerned, Watts and Dern are grandfathered in through their prior work with DKL.) And let's not forget, L&F went out of their way to cast two stars of the classic musical West Side Story, certainly because both actors are talented, but also out of some degree of cheekiness.

Yes, there are more "big names" in the new series -- but there are also a lot more actors overall. I think the percentage is roughly the same as the original show.

[secretlettermkr]

The original series relied on very strong actors who were not necessarily mainstream and I think that was very important for the immersion aspect.

I don't think that's true at all. The brilliant casting drew from all kinds of popular TV and film and even threw in little jokes referencing it. Just because you weren't familiar with the cast's work doesn't mean audiences at the time of broadcast weren't.

This. Laurie was a three-time Oscar nominee, Chen was fresh off of a major role in a Best Picture winner. Peggy Lipton had starred in a hit TV series, 20 years earlier but still in recent memory. I think those three at least are roughly comparable to whatever "big names" people might be worrying about (Chamberlain? Cera? Jim Belushi? Musicians who may not even be playing characters? As far as I'm concerned, Watts and Dern are grandfathered in through their prior work with DKL.) And let's not forget, L&F went out of their way to cast two stars of the classic musical West Side Story, certainly because both actors are talented, but also out of some degree of cheekiness.

Yes, there are more "big names" in the new series -- but there are also a lot more actors overall. I think the percentage is roughly the same as the original show.

My only problem is with the "rock stars", frankly, i dont want to see Reznor or Vedder in TwinPeaks, i used to listen to pearl jam and NIN as a teenager, but now I grown bored of their sound and most of all, of their "persona". So, i hope their only doing brief cameos,

[AXX°N N.]

Immersion aspect.

As others have pointed out, immersion is the wrong word to use here. We have actors quoting from their old movies (senor droolcup), we have Peggy Lipton played against a Mod Squad co-star which has been confirmed through interviews to be a knowing and self-aware choice, we have Russ Tamblyn reunited with Beymer from West Side Story, we have references to other films (how is that immersive? It's inter-textual!) including Hitchcock & Preminger, James was modeled off Rebel Without a Cause, etc. You could fill an entire book with this stuff, and several exist that you can read which labor over the inter-textual qualities of the show, and that have interviews, for example with Harley Peyton, and several directors outright naming the many instances they have of reference and homage. I believe Peyton has stated inter-textual referencing was a whole, wide aspect of the show they thought about. And Lynch does this in his other movies because they modeled Twin Peaks off his films -- Wizard of Oz in Wild at Heart, old Hollywood in Mulholland Drive, a scene in Inland Empire is an outright recreation of a scene in Sunset Blvd. The show itself and the creators themselves are at odds with what you think the show was about.

There were no obligations if terms of loyalty to actors who may not even fit certain roles anymore, no element of fan expectations etc.
The original series could therefor cast a series that came with an energy and a degree of mass appeal that I think is out of the question this time.

I just don't think it will become a "watch again and again" kind of treasure that the original was, due to some of the choices mentioned.

I feel like that's a massive leap in conjecture based on very slim material available you -- also, wouldn't a star-studded cast, at the time, have been 'mass appeal'? Twin Peaks was a sleeper hit, and its employment of unknown names back then was treated as unconventional.

[Agent Earle]

The original series relied on very strong actors who were not necessarily mainstream and I think that was very important for the immersion aspect.

That is very true. Even though a couple of the actors in the original series weren't completely unknown, they were not mainstream celebrities.

Agreed. I don't think the presence of, say, Laurie, Beymer, Tamblyn and especially Chen is a solid enough argument to prove that the old show used the celebrity faces in the same quantity as the unknown ones.

Even though this is a 'worries' thread, I will just add that one thing that makes me feel good:

The dumb, unnecessary, boring and artistically lazy elements of the 4-5 bad episodes from the original series season 2 will be totally absent.
Those were within a certain genre of missteps that WILL not occur show under Lynch's control.

I'm just curious: might you elaborate as to which those elements that you label "dumb, unnecessary, boring and artistically lazy" do you consider to be? Little Nicky and Evelyn Marsh stuff?