Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

Moderators: Brad D, Annie, Jonah, BookhouseBoyBob, Ross, Jerry Horne

User avatar
referendum
RR Diner Member
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:29 am

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by referendum »

@redrum
Such wisdom as ' everyday give yourself a present' and a deeper meaningful aspects of our lives as to listen to your inner self more.
funny you should say that.

At the time, in the UK, a new fashion ( end of 80's) was ' new age ' mysticism and crappy ambient surf sounds and synth tapes, and self-help ' improve your self esteem' books with cod - spiritual ( usually buddhist ) advice. So in the context of watching TP at the time ( 89/90) all that aspect seemed like a comment on the contemporary world at the time as much as it did ' deep and meaningful - and often trod a very careful line between sincerity and taking the piss. It felt sincere, and sarcastic about itself, at the same time. In 1990 that was a new thing for TV - irony. But then postmodernism was fashionable -So it ( TP ) also used that - the yang to new age's yin. You got the brain AND the heart. With great film-making, and a great soundtrack.

Despite having not re-watched it since, apart from the pilot, and ep 29 before this series started, I was definitely a fan at the time - it felt like something genuinely modern and new and set of associations and connections in a way that nothing else on TV did. ( apart maybe from the Fassbinder series Berlin Alexanderplatz, although that is of course a very different kettle of fish). I did try to re-watch it ( TP series 1) ten years ago, but gave in after a couple of episodes, as the soap opera /peyton place teen drama elements felt dated and awkward, and i did not want to destroy my memory of it - in the same way as it is often a bad idea to look out old girlfriends 15 years later. However, as I say, after TP TR finishes, I may have to risk it, prompted by this series...

I re-watched Lost Highway a few weeks ago and it was better than I remembered it. I am not sure i can face a re-watch of Wild at Heart.
Blue velvet. straight story, mulholland drive, eraserhead and elephant man i have seen multiple times and they never date. Lynch is one of a handful of film-makers I have seen everything by - and read alot about, tried to understand and get under the skin. I went to his exhibition in Foundation Cartier and have checked out Club silencio in Paris. So I am not a casual viewer. This series TP TR is way better than I expected. If it was 20% shorter it would be much improved, but them's the rubs. I would like to see a cinema edit, 15 hour, without 90% of the roadhouse bands...

I can totally see why someone who is a mega-fan of series 1 and 2 would be very disappointed as TP TR has gone in a very different direction. In some ways this would have been a better series had it not been billed as Twin Peaks - but then it is setting itself up as the dark evil twin, or doppelganger, of the version 25 years ago - a retread over the same territory through much more jaded and adult eyes. The optimism has gone out the window. But what it does have in common with the first series, for me at least, is that ( despite the occasional total misfires like cockney mockney youtube boy) it feels very modern, in a way that i can quite understand a fan of the first series would hate. You know what they say - nostalgia ain't what it used to be.

[edit] one of the best things about the first series was the cheesy kitsch music, done straight.
one of the most immediately striking things about this series is the sound design being way better than 99/9999% of the rest of TV.
But they are totally different animals. This series is striking in its LACK of soundtrack, and the way real world sounds and diegetic sounds are used so it is often really unclear what it in the reality of the series and what is in the reality of the edit room. The hum in the Great Northern being an obvious example - the explanation is not that there is anyone literally hiding in the wood. It is that the characters in the film can hear the soundtrack. Same as the Monica Belucci dream - the margins between this world and that world are blurred. You might not like Lynch doing this, but that is what he is doing. And then there is that 'other' world....
Last edited by referendum on Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:41 am, edited 3 times in total.
''let's not overthink this opportunity''
User avatar
yaxomoxay
Great Northern Member
Posts: 767
Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 4:50 pm

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by yaxomoxay »

RedRum wrote:
yaxomoxay wrote:
RedRum wrote:
Its not a pissing contest about who is a bigger fan, I was simply pointing out that those that perhaps watched it once are not affected as badly by the atrocity that is season three.

And I didn't say ALL people that hate the season are Liberal voters, just I assert I bet the majority are... this is from using deductive reasoning.
How can you deduct the political orientation of fans in a show as crazy as this... I don't know.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
1. The younger you are the more likely you are to vote Liberal.
2. The younger you are the less exposure you have to Twin Peaks
4. The younger you are the more likely you are to appreciate superficial elements over depth.
4. The less you have been exposed to Twin Peaks the less Season Three Affects your original interaction with the series.
5. The less Season three affects your original interaction with the series, the more you are likely to like it

This is not an absolute but overall when applied to numbers would equate to a reasoning as to why there are those that love season three and that they most likely vote Liberal.
Conservative immigrant here. Watched the original season back then. Love season 3. Your deduction is as faulty as it can be, especially since many on reddit or the "regular" threads clearly watched the original season 20+ years ago.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
User avatar
boske
Great Northern Member
Posts: 593
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:15 am

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by boske »

yaxomoxay wrote:
boske wrote:Let's keep politics out of this. This thread is about this unfolding (for me at least) 18-part train wreck.
Agreed (on the politics part lol).
You would admit that studying disasters is yrev very interesting!! ;)
Yeah. I mean, who in their right mind would have predicted a year ago that Sarah Palmer is a face-mask removing monster that slaughters trash-talking truck drivers. And a Cockney Londoner with a green rubber glove freaking James out in the basement of the Great Northern. This kind of stuff could have been, seriously, only conceived by Coop's doppelganger as he was smashing his head into that mirror in episode 29.
mlsstwrt
RR Diner Member
Posts: 431
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:35 am

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by mlsstwrt »

yaxomoxay wrote:
mlsstwrt wrote:Mtwentz, LateReg,Yaxomoxay (prob messed up the spelling, sorry) - you seem like good people. But please understand at this point I and several others are probably beyond disappointed and kind of angry about this. Can you please just allow us to vent about this? It's really beyond the discussion point, for me at least. Not that this was ever really a debate thread.

As to why keep watching? Maybe I shouldn't but I've waited 25 years and already watched 14 episodes so I may as well watch the amazing finale that we're bound to get. If I could go back and not have watched any of this, believe me I would.
By all means, vent. Since I joined this thread - one of the most interesting in the entire forum - I always said that it's your right to complain, vent and dislike this show. I would've been surprised if this show received unanimous approval by fans. No artistic creation is exempt from criticism, and this is especially true when people have some sort of attachment to it. Just look at Star Wars, Star Trek or the Gilmore Girls.
But allow me to tell you one thing. Another reason I come here every day is because I consider this thread much less prone to knee jerk reactions. The regular threads are flooded by "this is the best show ever", which after the first episodes grew stale. I praised episode 14 because I truly loved it, I criticized episode 12 because I didn't like it, and I praised episode 8. I am not going to say that every episode is "the finest hour of television ever" because it's not true. Episode 8, maybe. Episode 12? Nah. Some West Wing episodes are much more touching and better designed than episode 12 (see the one with Brothers in Arms as background music). I truly believe that this group of disappointed people is important to better understand TP. It's the "other view". However when I read apocalyptic posts or F--- you's to the creator I am saddened by the fact that the bar is lowered bar on this thread. It doesn't add anything to the discussion.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yeah this is the thing though, I'm sort of saying it's been mostly nice up until now but disappointment it turning into something worse, so all I ask is that you understand that is probably going to come through more and more. Some people who shall not be named get quite offended when we start criticising Lynch or the adulation for The Return but I don't see why we can't do that in this thread. You have to understand that for many of The Return is abysmal. Not just that it doesn't live up to the Original but it's taking away something precious. I know you said in an earlier post that you didn't really understand how something you love can be tainted by what comes later (sorry if I'm mis-paraphrasing you) but believe me it can and it is.

It's too late to stop watching but at this point I sincerely wish I had not watched a single episode of The Return. TP meant a lot to me and it's going to mean less after this. I have no doubt that people will use that to say I never really loved the original but trust me, it's not that simple. I hope I, and others who feel the same, can partition our minds to just basically eradicate this altogether but that's almost impossible. I absolutely adored Before Sunrise but it's really hard to watch that movie now, knowing how things turn out.
User avatar
yaxomoxay
Great Northern Member
Posts: 767
Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 4:50 pm

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by yaxomoxay »

boske wrote:
yaxomoxay wrote:
boske wrote:Let's keep politics out of this. This thread is about this unfolding (for me at least) 18-part train wreck.
Agreed (on the politics part lol).
You would admit that studying disasters is yrev very interesting!! ;)
Yeah. I mean, who in their right mind would have predicted a year ago that Sarah Palmer is a face-mask removing monster that slaughters trash-talking truck drivers. And a Cockney Londoner with a green rubber glove freaking James out in the basement of the Great Northern. This kind of stuff could have been, seriously, only conceived by Coop's doppelganger as he was smashing his head into that mirror in episode 29.

Ahahhaha. Nice :)
Well, who could have predicted after Season 1 that Leland Palmer had problems at looking at himself on a mirror, and that a Japanese man was actually a very well known woman, all right before a serial killer puts on a wig, finds an identical log, and impersonates a woman known for talking to such log.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
User avatar
RedRum
Roadhouse Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:17 am

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by RedRum »

yaxomoxay wrote:
RedRum wrote:
yaxomoxay wrote:
How can you deduct the political orientation of fans in a show as crazy as this... I don't know.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
1. The younger you are the more likely you are to vote Liberal.
2. The younger you are the less exposure you have to Twin Peaks
4. The younger you are the more likely you are to appreciate superficial elements over depth.
4. The less you have been exposed to Twin Peaks the less Season Three Affects your original interaction with the series.
5. The less Season three affects your original interaction with the series, the more you are likely to like it

This is not an absolute but overall when applied to numbers would equate to a reasoning as to why there are those that love season three and that they most likely vote Liberal.
Conservative immigrant here. Watched the original season back then. Love season 3. Your deduction is as faulty as it can be, especially since many on reddit or the "regular" threads clearly watched the original season 20+ years ago.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What part of This is not an absolute do you not understand?

You really seem to be missing the point a lot.

Seems like some people are touchy about politics, so if you don't want discuss it thats fine.

Its 26 years ago... and as I pointed out earlier... if you watched it 26 years ago and never since... its impact on your life would be the same as someone who watched it once two years ago.
Last edited by RedRum on Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
yaxomoxay
Great Northern Member
Posts: 767
Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 4:50 pm

Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by yaxomoxay »

RedRum wrote:
yaxomoxay wrote:
RedRum wrote:
1. The younger you are the more likely you are to vote Liberal.
2. The younger you are the less exposure you have to Twin Peaks
4. The younger you are the more likely you are to appreciate superficial elements over depth.
4. The less you have been exposed to Twin Peaks the less Season Three Affects your original interaction with the series.
5. The less Season three affects your original interaction with the series, the more you are likely to like it

This is not an absolute but overall when applied to numbers would equate to a reasoning as to why there are those that love season three and that they most likely vote Liberal.
Conservative immigrant here. Watched the original season back then. Love season 3. Your deduction is as faulty as it can be, especially since many on reddit or the "regular" threads clearly watched the original season 20+ years ago.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What part of This is not an absolute do you not understand?

You really seem to be missing the point a lot.
The "this is not absolute" disclaimer isn't sufficient to ease your broad statement. I brought you one data point. Others here reacted against your statement, giving you other data points.
You brought in zero data points, so this might mean that your "deduction" is more prejudice than anything else.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
User avatar
boske
Great Northern Member
Posts: 593
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:15 am

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by boske »

yaxomoxay wrote:
boske wrote:
yaxomoxay wrote:
Agreed (on the politics part lol).
You would admit that studying disasters is yrev very interesting!! ;)
Yeah. I mean, who in their right mind would have predicted a year ago that Sarah Palmer is a face-mask removing monster that slaughters trash-talking truck drivers. And a Cockney Londoner with a green rubber glove freaking James out in the basement of the Great Northern. This kind of stuff could have been, seriously, only conceived by Coop's doppelganger as he was smashing his head into that mirror in episode 29.
Ahahhaha. Nice :)
Well, who could have predicted after Season 1 that Leland Palmer had problems at looking at himself on a mirror, and that a Japanese man was actually a very well known woman, all right before a serial killer puts on a wig, finds an identical log, and impersonates a woman known for talking to such log.
True, but none of that stuff contradicted the Season 1. If you watch Season 1 and pay attention to certain details in the pilot and so on (like for example Leland's chevron-patterned suit, the black dog statue behind him), you see all these breadcrumbs in place alluding to what is going on. This season 3 simply mutilates the old Twin Peaks, that's the problem here.
User avatar
RedRum
Roadhouse Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:17 am

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by RedRum »

yaxomoxay wrote:
RedRum wrote:
yaxomoxay wrote:
Conservative immigrant here. Watched the original season back then. Love season 3. Your deduction is as faulty as it can be, especially since many on reddit or the "regular" threads clearly watched the original season 20+ years ago.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What part of This is not an absolute do you not understand?

You really seem to be missing the point a lot.
The "this is not absolute" disclaimer isn't sufficient to ease your broad statement. I brought you one data point. Others here reacted against your statement, giving you other data points.
You brought in zero data points, so this might mean that your "deduction" is more prejudice than anything else.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I haven't said anything negative about voting liberal, simply an observation, please don't put words or feelings in my mouth.

And I pointed out the reasoning behind a set of people that are likely to like season three, this set is likely to make up a large percentage of those that like season three. Absolutely nowhere did I state that ALL those that like season three are liberal voters.

The trouble is I think, people don't think deeply enough and are looking through their rose coloured glasses dismissing all information that doesn't conform with their nice neat view of the world.
User avatar
Mallard
RR Diner Member
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:47 pm

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Mallard »

mlsstwrt wrote:
yaxomoxay wrote:
mlsstwrt wrote:Mtwentz, LateReg,Yaxomoxay (prob messed up the spelling, sorry) - you seem like good people. But please understand at this point I and several others are probably beyond disappointed and kind of angry about this. Can you please just allow us to vent about this? It's really beyond the discussion point, for me at least. Not that this was ever really a debate thread.

As to why keep watching? Maybe I shouldn't but I've waited 25 years and already watched 14 episodes so I may as well watch the amazing finale that we're bound to get. If I could go back and not have watched any of this, believe me I would.
By all means, vent. Since I joined this thread - one of the most interesting in the entire forum - I always said that it's your right to complain, vent and dislike this show. I would've been surprised if this show received unanimous approval by fans. No artistic creation is exempt from criticism, and this is especially true when people have some sort of attachment to it. Just look at Star Wars, Star Trek or the Gilmore Girls.
But allow me to tell you one thing. Another reason I come here every day is because I consider this thread much less prone to knee jerk reactions. The regular threads are flooded by "this is the best show ever", which after the first episodes grew stale. I praised episode 14 because I truly loved it, I criticized episode 12 because I didn't like it, and I praised episode 8. I am not going to say that every episode is "the finest hour of television ever" because it's not true. Episode 8, maybe. Episode 12? Nah. Some West Wing episodes are much more touching and better designed than episode 12 (see the one with Brothers in Arms as background music). I truly believe that this group of disappointed people is important to better understand TP. It's the "other view". However when I read apocalyptic posts or F--- you's to the creator I am saddened by the fact that the bar is lowered bar on this thread. It doesn't add anything to the discussion.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yeah this is the thing though, I'm sort of saying it's been mostly nice up until now but disappointment it turning into something worse, so all I ask is that you understand that is probably going to come through more and more. Some people who shall not be named get quite offended when we start criticising Lynch or the adulation for The Return but I don't see why we can't do that in this thread. You have to understand that for many of The Return is abysmal. Not just that it doesn't live up to the Original but it's taking away something precious. I know you said in an earlier post that you didn't really understand how something you love can be tainted by what comes later (sorry if I'm mis-paraphrasing you) but believe me it can and it is.

It's too late to stop watching but at this point I sincerely wish I had not watched a single episode of The Return. TP meant a lot to me and it's going to mean less after this. I have no doubt that people will use that to say I never really loved the original but trust me, it's not that simple. I hope I, and others who feel the same, can partition our minds to just basically eradicate this altogether but that's almost impossible. I absolutely adored Before Sunrise but it's really hard to watch that movie now, knowing how things turn out.
I'll take this as a cue to quit lurking in here.

Just remember, most of us don't take any pleasure in the fact that you didn't like this show, and honestly feel bad that it's starting to ruin the whole series for you. As a courtesy to the "non-disappointed" who posted here in good faith, try not to take out your frustration on us. We can't help liking the show any more than you can help hating it.
Welcome...to the third...place.
User avatar
garethw
RR Diner Member
Posts: 437
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:48 pm
Location: Deep River

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by garethw »

Rialto wrote: For our American friends, it's the equivalent of watching a British drama and the only American character is a fat, obnoxious loudmouth who constantly exclaims 'Gee Whiz!', 'Real Neat!' or 'Hot Dog!' Offensively bad.
I completely agree with your broader point but, amusingly, I can think of one American who talks pretty much exactly like that.

And it's David Lynch. :lol:
mlsstwrt
RR Diner Member
Posts: 431
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:35 am

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by mlsstwrt »

Mallard wrote:
mlsstwrt wrote:
yaxomoxay wrote:
By all means, vent. Since I joined this thread - one of the most interesting in the entire forum - I always said that it's your right to complain, vent and dislike this show. I would've been surprised if this show received unanimous approval by fans. No artistic creation is exempt from criticism, and this is especially true when people have some sort of attachment to it. Just look at Star Wars, Star Trek or the Gilmore Girls.
But allow me to tell you one thing. Another reason I come here every day is because I consider this thread much less prone to knee jerk reactions. The regular threads are flooded by "this is the best show ever", which after the first episodes grew stale. I praised episode 14 because I truly loved it, I criticized episode 12 because I didn't like it, and I praised episode 8. I am not going to say that every episode is "the finest hour of television ever" because it's not true. Episode 8, maybe. Episode 12? Nah. Some West Wing episodes are much more touching and better designed than episode 12 (see the one with Brothers in Arms as background music). I truly believe that this group of disappointed people is important to better understand TP. It's the "other view". However when I read apocalyptic posts or F--- you's to the creator I am saddened by the fact that the bar is lowered bar on this thread. It doesn't add anything to the discussion.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yeah this is the thing though, I'm sort of saying it's been mostly nice up until now but disappointment it turning into something worse, so all I ask is that you understand that is probably going to come through more and more. Some people who shall not be named get quite offended when we start criticising Lynch or the adulation for The Return but I don't see why we can't do that in this thread. You have to understand that for many of The Return is abysmal. Not just that it doesn't live up to the Original but it's taking away something precious. I know you said in an earlier post that you didn't really understand how something you love can be tainted by what comes later (sorry if I'm mis-paraphrasing you) but believe me it can and it is.

It's too late to stop watching but at this point I sincerely wish I had not watched a single episode of The Return. TP meant a lot to me and it's going to mean less after this. I have no doubt that people will use that to say I never really loved the original but trust me, it's not that simple. I hope I, and others who feel the same, can partition our minds to just basically eradicate this altogether but that's almost impossible. I absolutely adored Before Sunrise but it's really hard to watch that movie now, knowing how things turn out.
I'll take this as a cue to quit lurking in here.

Just remember, most of us don't take any pleasure in the fact that you didn't like this show, and honestly feel bad that it's starting to ruin the whole series for you. As a courtesy to the "non-disappointed" who posted here in good faith, try not to take out your frustration on us. We can't help liking the show any more than you can help hating it.
Don't, I've really enjoyed your posts. That wasn't meant to be a 'Get out of this thread!' more like don't get too offended. I don't know. I started the thread but it's not my thread anymore than yours. I'm not trying to tell anyone what to do, just that really in a thread with this title, venting (rather than debate) should be expected.
User avatar
RedRum
Roadhouse Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:17 am

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by RedRum »

Mallard wrote: We can't help liking the show any more than you can help hating it.
But how can you like it when it literally corrupts the original material so completely?

Do you like the season as a stand alone?

Or do you like the fact it changes the meaning of the original so completely.?

Does that then mean you didn't really like the original?

Do you see why those of us that hate what season three cannot see eye to eye with those that love season three?
User avatar
referendum
RR Diner Member
Posts: 312
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:29 am

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by referendum »

@redrum
The trouble is I think, people don't think deeply enough and are looking through their rose coloured glasses dismissing all information that doesn't conform with their nice neat view of the world.
what, you mean apart from you? :P :idea: :D :roll:

edit: [ ps, i really hope the line you wrote above is said by a character in episode 15. I am not sure which character it would be though. Chad? Tammy? a random in the roadhouse? I think on balance, Lucy :) ]
Last edited by referendum on Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
''let's not overthink this opportunity''
User avatar
RedRum
Roadhouse Member
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:17 am

Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by RedRum »

referendum wrote:@redrum
The trouble is I think, people don't think deeply enough and are looking through their rose coloured glasses dismissing all information that doesn't conform with their nice neat view of the world.
what, you mean apart from you? :P :idea: :D :roll:
I stand by my statement, and I respond to anyones information which I absorb.

I do not ignore or neglect to think about information that is presented to me.

I also don't do one liner side swipes.... :roll:
Post Reply