Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

[mlsstwrt]

I don't think this is the wrong thread for this, because this is a thread for disappointed people and some of us are disappointed with gender treatment in the new series and that's not less important or less interesting than any of the other complaints about the series. And I don't think the gender discussion was clogging up this thread more than some of the off-topic fightings that went on for a couple of pages...

I mean you can post what you want of course and I don't think it's that it's less interesting or clogging the thread, just that there is already a dedicated thread it seems?

Yes, I guess the deeper discussions might belong in the other thread, but for me the gender thing is one of the many disappointing things of the series, so I think it's not too bad if the thread topics sometimes overlap. I feel more comfortable ranting about it in a thread that is especially for ranting

Understood! And I've enjoyed your posts very much.

[mtwentz]

I mean you can post what you want of course and I don't think it's that it's less interesting or clogging the thread, just that there is already a dedicated thread it seems?

Yes, I guess the deeper discussions might belong in the other thread, but for me the gender thing is one of the many disappointing things of the series, so I think it's not too bad if the thread topics sometimes overlap. I feel more comfortable ranting about it in a thread that is especially for ranting

Understood! And I've enjoyed your posts very much.

tbh, when the news of the violent behavior of certain cast members broke here late yesterday it kind of freaked me out as a dark coincidence that we were discussing violence against women in The Return on this thread.

[yaxomoxay]

Yes, I guess the deeper discussions might belong in the other thread, but for me the gender thing is one of the many disappointing things of the series, so I think it's not too bad if the thread topics sometimes overlap. I feel more comfortable ranting about it in a thread that is especially for ranting

Understood! And I've enjoyed your posts very much.

tbh, when the news of the violent behavior of certain cast members broke here late yesterday it kind of freaked me out as a dark coincidence that we were discussing violence against women in The Return on this thread.

Widespread Domestic violence is a reality many don't want to acknowledge. It's a plague, and often the victims cover for the perpetuators or do not report him/her.


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[Dreamy Audrey]

Understood! And I've enjoyed your posts very much.

Thank you

Somebody said something about this the other day, on another thread.

I wonder how much of the altered tone of ( and the source of people's dislike of/ alienation from ) this series comes from the fact that in the first two series, most of the characters were either teenagers or young adults, and their parents, and in this series, most of the major characters are of retirement age, and most of the rest over 45?

This interests me too. It's been discussed a bit on this thread.

I think the youngsters (I feel so old at 39) brought a lot of energy, fire and passion to the original. They could be naive or misguided but that was part of their charm. Now Bobby, James, Audrey etc are all around the late 40s mark I think and have definitely mellowed out. Bobby was one of my favorite characters in The Original. He's obviously a much nicer guy now but much less fun as well (and less complex). I miss the old Bobby, James, Donna, etc. Of course this is not a criticism of The Return, it's inevitable that people mellow out as they age.

We don't spend much time with the young crowd this time but how different they are! Mike, Leo, Bobby and others could be a-holes in the Original but they either had warm hearts under rough exteriors or still had a kind of charm to them. The young crowd now are just vile aren't they? Maybe in a more real way but there isn't one of them I have any real feelings for other than distaste.

I think the lack of young people (or at least time spent with them) is contributing to the lifelessness of The Return for me. Not that older people can't be fun but youngsters just have more energy, hunger, angst, etc. And they're just at school so commercial realities of life don't mean they have to be going to bed at 11pm so they can be up for work in the morning! I really liked the balance in the Original. Now we spend most of our time with Dougie or Gordon Cole it seems.

This is a very good point. But I think part of the reason for this lifelessness is also that there are just too many characters and therefore not enough screentime for most of them. In the original series, we spent a lot of time with the younger characters but also enough time with the older characters. We got to know them, which is why we cared about their stories. We knew a lot about Bobby, Shelly, Donna, James, etc. after a few episodes and we had enough scenes of Norma and Ed to care about their relationship. I cared about a lot of the old characters without having to rewatch the episodes. What do we know about Becky or Steven? We haven't seen much of them, I don't care about either of them and it took me a moment to even remember Becky's name for this post. I only know most of the new characters' names because of rewatches and looking at the ending credits. But it's similar for the old characters now. What do we know of any of the old characters in this series? Norma is doing paperwork all the time and only had a few lines. If I hadn't watched the old series, I wouldn't care about her character at all. Or just look at Shelly. In the old series we knew she was in an unhappy and abusive marriage with Leo and had a secret affair with Bobby. We felt for her and got invested in her story. Now she is married to Bobby and openly dating Red. We don't know her reasons for this, if she is a bad wife or Bobby a bad husband or if something else drove them apart. Red seems like a shady character, but maybe he treats her better than Bobby does. Who knows? I'm curious what happened to Shelly and Bobby, of course, but I don't really feel for them because their characters seem very lifeless to me and because I don't even know if they are better off married or separated.

[mlsstwrt]

Very good post DreamyAudrey! Yes, I cared about the older characters in the original just as much as the younger ones. The younger ones just brought a lot of thefire and energy that comes with youth.

Everything you said rings true for me. A lot of those loving The Return seem to argue that we're not meant to care about the characters this time around! Hmmm, well it's very hard for me to love a show or book where you're not invested in one single character. It's hard to see who we can be truly invested in here. Dougie, I suppose but he's basically a walking (well shuffling) potato.

There are too many characters, too many strands, too many locations, etc. There's no focus whatsoever to this giant mess, it really is The David Lynch show. I wish they hadn't called this Twin Peaks or used the same opening music. Those opening credits used to give me chills. Not anymore and I wonder if they ever will again.

I honestly find myself still being shocked at times at just how appalling this is. Can't quite believe this has happened.

[douglasb]

Although I didn't have any particular expectations of the series, I kinda hoped we would get something slow and meditative, something that acknowledged the passing of time. Essentially, I suppose I wanted the series to tell me something about myself and at this stage one scene of Big Ed moping doesn't tell me much. Actually, I think I wanted a ghost story - one that explored how Laura and Cooper continue to haunt the town of Twin Peaks, and my life. TPTR isn't that story, I don't think. That's OK though - I can accept that's not how L&F see things.

[mlsstwrt]

Although I didn't have any particular expectations of the series, I kinda hoped we would get something slow and meditative, something that acknowledged the passing of time. Essentially, I suppose I wanted the series to tell me something about myself and at this stage one scene of Big Ed moping doesn't tell me much. Actually, I think I wanted a ghost story - one that explored how Laura and Cooper continue to haunt the town of Twin Peaks, and my life. TPTR isn't that story, I don't think. That's OK though - I can accept that's not how L&F see things.

Was really hoping for something like this as well but yeah of course it's up to L&F!

You know what would be really cool. If they had filmed a tonne of stuff with the characters in 1990 and saved it, KNOWING that they would follow up 25 years later. I know it's impossible but that would be mind blowing.

[Dreamy Audrey]

I wish they hadn't called this Twin Peaks or used the same opening music.

A lot of people who like the show claim we dislike it because we are nostalgic, but the series tries to be nostalgic. I think it is weird that on the one hand they tried to link this series to the old series by using the same title, opening theme and font, calling it a continuation/season 3, including some of the old characters, and so on, but then they used a completely different style. I think it would have been better to choose a different title and call it a spin-off with a lose connection to Twin Peaks.

In the old series, I loved the characters, the story, the locations, the music, the atmosphere, the soapy elements, the absurd and surreal elements, the pace ... All this together was what I associated with "Twin Peaks", it was what I loved about the series. Now a lot of that is missing. It doesn't feel like Twin Peaks anymore. I'm trying to treat it as a spin-off or different series now, and there are aspects and scenes in the show that I like and enjoy, but the problem is that there is still a lot that I don't like, especially the feeling that a lot of the scenes and characters are completely unconnected and cold. I'll admit that the old series sometimes had flaws and bad storylines, but the characters and the overall story were good enough to make me overlook or forgive the flaws and they didn't make the series less enjoyable.

And before anyone claims I am only disappointed in the series because it is not what I expected... I might have been okay with it if I thought the new series was good. The old Twin Peaks isn't the only show I like, I watch many TV shows or films and enjoy different genres. Besides, the old series often went in complete different directions than expected, and it never bothered me.

Those opening credits used to give me chills. Not anymore and I wonder if they ever will again.

The funny thing is that I still enjoy the opening credits for the old series and usually patiently watch them, whereas I often skip them in the new series. Interestingly, the old series is much quicker paced but has slow-paced opening credits (the theme runs for 3 minutes in the first episode of season 2!), whereas the new series is very slow-paced and has very short opening titles that are cut off - as if they felt forced to use the same title but couldn't get it over with quick enough.

[boske]

Regarding the characters and their origin and development: yes, we have had none of that. I am more than willing though to give Lynch credit, in general, with such an approach. In a dream, especially a vivid one, we are presented with random and unpredictable scenes, characters, and symbols; a fine flow of pictures, where we know not where they came from, and when and where they will go next. We merely have time, more precisely attention (is there time in dreams?), to deduce some evident traits and interact with these characters before they disperse. These to me are quite fascinating things, and the lodge scenes from episode 29 have this very dream-like quality. The lodge scenes there simply flow like a very vivid dream, it is amazing. Even after 25 years you notice some things that you did not before, it never gets old and uninteresting. Just like with those vivid dreams, there is such a qualiy in there that leaves one in awe.

The problem here is that it can work for 10-15 minues max, 18 hours is way too much, it simply does not work. Once does not dream that long, one cannot claim this Return as one big dream, I do not see how that can work at all. Not to mention the tone, color, warmth, polish of these pictures. There is none of that here. There may be nightmares from time to time, but they still have these qualitites. The Return simply feels hihilistic, and radiates void. All we have are these deliberate wild goose chases and self-indulgence. It feels crowded but at its core there is nothing but void, nothing.

[boske]

Those opening credits used to give me chills. Not anymore and I wonder if they ever will again.

There is no little bird there anymore, I wish it were there.

[Dreamy Audrey]

I think it might work as a dream. Sometimes dreams feel longer than they actually are or Audrey could be dreaming for a long time while in a coma. While that might explain a lot of the weird things in this series, I wouldn't be very happy if it turned out the entire series was just a dream and I don't think it would become more enjoyable in a rewatch.

[boske]

I cannot see a "Deus ex machina" working here, as also mentioned earlier, for that we are past the point of no return.

[Dreamy Audrey]

By the way, all these theories about dreams remind me of the fourth season of "Sherlock". A lot of people were unhappy with the fourth season and there were so many theories saying the last episode is a dream/mind-palace/drug-induced hallucination, the last two episodes are a dream, the entire fourth season is a dream, the entire third and fourth season are a dream and so on... I thought a lot of these theories made sense and could explain the weirdness and inconsistencies of the last season, however it was never resolved that way and I doubt they would wait to reveal something like that a season later (if they had plans for another season at all). So, while I still think TPTR feels like a dream and could be resolved that way or that there could be multiple timelines, I am also thinking it's possible that it's just a jumbled mess that will not be resolved in a satisfying way.

[Pinky]

Poor Kyle MacLachlan and his talent have both been utterly wasted. Again, you see nothing but praise for "Dougie" even going so far as people saying he should win an Emmy for his portrayal. That's just ridiculous. He stares blankly, shuffles around, and repeats words. Any second rate actor is capable of this. Just 4 more hours of this... I think we can tough it out.

I think i'd give him an Emmy just on the stares he gives at the U.S. flag and the one he does into mid-air in 'Heartbreaking'. I'm sure i'm biased, but I don't think i've seen anything so moving in a long time..

[The Gazebo]

My emotional attachment to the show ended somewhere in episode 13, and since then I've only been lurking here, but I just wanted to say thanks to the posters who articulate their disappointment much better than what I'm able to.

I, like may of those who have expressed their enjoyment of this series, tried to accept it on its own terms. I put up with the earlier episodes because I believed that my patience would be rewarded and the show would go somewhere. I kept telling myself "relax, we're only ___ episodes in, there's plenty of time left, the show has barely started" and so on. It wasn't until episode 11 or 12 that my patience finally snapped. It suddenly dawned on me that the show as it was, was the show. That's right, Cooper walking around like a vegetable wasn't just a lead in to the character, it was the character. No protagonist, no characters, no tension, no release. Just a bunch of stuff. Interminably boring stuff.

I really felt a positive shift in episode 7. The mood, the pacing - I thought this was the beginning of 12 fantastic hours. Then Lynch decided to go nuclear, and the show hasn't really picked up since. It's been like waiting in a long queue for hours, only to gradually realize that the thing you were waiting for, isn't going to happen.

That's one thing that's hard to pin down about The Return - just how completely lifeless it is. I find it utterly devoid of tension, excitement, energy. And I'm not talking about shootouts or explosions, just a general vibe. It feels so flat.

Bravo. I'm struggling to remember too many instances where my pulse deviated from its normal rhythm. Nor have I often felt sad, happy, or any of the other emotions one normally associates with quality television.

If the point was to muddy the waters so bad before the finale and then resolve it in one fell swoop, I think they missed the point. I just realized yesterday that the Return has taken way more attention from me that it has warranted and deserved, and maybe that was the intent, who knows. I could have read a few good books by now, I feel cheated for sure. My fault, nobody else's.

I reckon I've spent about 2-300 hours on The Return this summer; watching, re-watching, reading, discussing. In the end, though, I just had to realize that my long-time friend had moved on in a different direction than me. As you say, our own fault, nobody else's.

I'm still open to the possibility that the last four hours will be wonderful. Then we would have four great hours to cherish for years to come. I'm also very interested, once these frail shadows that we call Season 3 episodes have quit the stage, we'll meet in a thread where everyone can give a thorough and thoughtful analysis as to why we loved or hated The Return.