Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

[yaxomoxay]

Well I am pretty much on my knees and kissing the ground as I think Special Agent Dale Cooper may be returning to the land of the living. Hallelujah! Maybe that's what the girl in the roadhouse was about to do when they cut away from her.

Ahahhaha!
Well, I still owe you a beer and a steak dinner


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[Dreamy Audrey]

I'm actually very surprised by the disappointed camp who weren't disappointed by Ep 15. To me it's just awful, as bad as anything that's gone before. I think maybe expectations are so low now that this is being judged by different standards. Did anybody else feel that Ep 15 was terrible?

Me, too. I'm shocked at some of the praise being thrown at this one. And I have been enjoying the series for the most part...

Seems like they seriously hit the brakes on this one, which would be fine if we weren't in the last act here.

It didn't feel like they hit the brakes on this episode, more like they fast-forwarded it as for Ed, Norma and Nadine where we got the resolution without ever seeing the problem Really, instead of all the Dr. Amp stuff they should have included a few more scenes for Ed and Norma or Ed and Nadine.

[Dreamy Audrey]

It had a few decent moments, and mostly sucked.

I pretty much loved the whole episode, except I was underwhelmed by the Jeffries/Teapot. But can I really fault Lynch for that? Not really, since it was better than a Bowie recast.

Yeah the teapot was weird, but in a saga with dopplegangers and lookalikes a re-cast of such an important character would've added another unpredictable element.

And probably everyone would have complained about the recast and compared the actor to Bowie. But the "teapot" is something completely different, so it can't be compared to the character in the same way.

[LateReg]

Just saw the Norma/Ed scene. Can totally understand why somebody would be underwhelmed by such a trite resolution of the saga. I certainly was.

The Walter/"franchise" "storyline" was some of the laziest writing of The Return. Introduce an obstacle for one scene, just so Ed/Norma can easily overcome it. Other than that, I thought the performances, the delayed gratification in the pacing, and the use of Redding made the scene satisfying. Admittedly, I have a soft spot for these two, and their reunion was one of the only specific things I truly wanted from TP:TR.

Don't most people view the franchise conversation as something else entirely? Another meta-comment about the state of the film industry? Everything is operating on multiple levels here. It's also operating like a dream. Starting with Nadine's scene, followed by Big Ed entering the diner, where he literally closes his eyes and seems to will Norma into his arms. The scene itself, divorced from anyone's need for character development or whatever, is imo one of the greatest scenes in Lynch's repertoire. It's incredible. I'm shocked that people don't love it at least as a standalone. And that's maybe why I'm mostly good with The Return. As a film fan, I often value the purity of a moment over any normal sort of development.

About my thought about Ed seeming to close his eyes and will that scene into existence...given that scene and the constant meta-commentary and Lynch's prominent role and talk about thought forms and dreams, when DoppelCoop so matter of factly asked Jeffries who Judy was, I had a thought that at the end of this thing we are going to see some character we've never seen before wake up, and it will be implied that that character will be a fan of the original series who just dreamt this whole thing. I'm not sure if that would make this better for some people, or worse.

[yaxomoxay]

I'm actually very surprised by the disappointed camp who weren't disappointed by Ep 15. To me it's just awful, as bad as anything that's gone before. I think maybe expectations are so low now that this is being judged by different standards. Did anybody else feel that Ep 15 was terrible?

Me, too. I'm shocked at some of the praise being thrown at this one. And I have been enjoying the series for the most part...

Seems like they seriously hit the brakes on this one, which would be fine if we weren't in the last act here.

It didn't feel like they hit the brakes on this episode, more like they fast-forwarded it as for Ed, Norma and Nadine where we got the resolution without ever seeing the problem Really, instead of all the Dr. Amp stuff they should have included a few more scenes for Ed and Norma or Ed and Nadine.

On one thing I agree with this group.
Too much Dr. Amp.


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[Venus]

Well I am pretty much on my knees and kissing the ground as I think Special Agent Dale Cooper may be returning to the land of the living. Hallelujah! Maybe that's what the girl in the roadhouse was about to do when they cut away from her.

Ahahhaha!
Well, I still owe you a beer and a steak dinner


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Yep, you definitely do. Several episodes along since you promised so the 'steaks' are higher. Champagne and no children allowed

[cgs027]

I'm actually very surprised by the disappointed camp who weren't disappointed by Ep 15. To me it's just awful, as bad as anything that's gone before. I think maybe expectations are so low now that this is being judged by different standards. Did anybody else feel that Ep 15 was terrible?

Me, too. I'm shocked at some of the praise being thrown at this one. And I have been enjoying the series for the most part...

Seems like they seriously hit the brakes on this one, which would be fine if we weren't in the last act here.

It didn't feel like they hit the brakes on this episode, more like they fast-forwarded it as for Ed, Norma and Nadine where we got the resolution without ever seeing the problem Really, instead of all the Dr. Amp stuff they should have included a few more scenes for Ed and Norma or Ed and Nadine.

Fair enough, I suppose I meant this more in terms of the main storylines that are underway. Like the FBI. Vegas. Etc. Seems like we took a detour to wrap up these tangential stories with no real build-up, and thus, no real pay-off.

[The Gazebo]

I'm actually very surprised by the disappointed camp who weren't disappointed by Ep 15. To me it's just awful, as bad as anything that's gone before. I think maybe expectations are so low now that this is being judged by different standards.

Yes, I liked ep 15 and, yes, the bar is so low now. To me, it was enough that we had a lot of nighttime shots, an intense soundtrack and almost no Dougie. I actually don't care what happens plotwise - at this stage any kind of atmosphere in the show is like a drip of morphine.

[Jonah]

I think you all make a good point about the Ed/Nadine stuff. I liked it anyway - or the Ed/Norma scene at any rate. But it was a strange choice. Also, it felt a bit unbelievable to me after 25 years, that Ed would stick it out that long, that Norma would. It's a scene that would have worked better a couple of years after Season 2 - not 25 years after it! It just doesn't feel believable. It's weird how little Lynch has used the old players but has put himself into it so much, put scenes like the vacuuming scene into it. I'm a bit disappointed in Frost too - as there's been a lot of weak or shoddy narrative choices. It doesn't feel like a script that was worked on for years! I think increasing it to 18 episodes and giving Lynch carte blanche (it feels like he's deleted nothing, that he's thrown in all the deleted scenes and then some) was a mistake. I do think a tighter, more focused season with a shorter run of episodes would have made an infinitely better series. A big part of me does like to see an artist getting the freedom to do what they want, but I think the overall quality has suffered as a whole. Makes me think of Stephen King or writers like him who produced leaner and better books in their early years, then fast forward several years and they get massive success, don't get edited as much, and suddenly are producing weaker and bloated 1000-page novels.

[yaxomoxay]

. Also, it felt a bit unbelievable to me after 25 years, that Ed would stick it out that long, that Norma would. It's a scene that would have worked better a couple of years after Season 2 - not 25 years after it! It just doesn't feel believable. .

Actually I found it very believable. Think about it. Ed is definitely an honorable man, but he's also a bit of a coward. He made a pledge and he kept it, and he's afraid of letting go, of being confrontational with Nadine who always overpowered him. In addition - a very important addition - each time he looks at her he is reminded of his role in carving Nadine's eye out. And more than that he knows and always felt that he destroyed Nadine's life by marrying her. And she's a suicidal person. Given their background I felt that it made perfect sense. She found her true happiness in a goofy way, and he is now free.

There are many couples where one party doesn't speak and is victim of violence, abuse, or even misunderstands forever.

[LateReg]

I watch ASMR videos on youtube with my headphones, it's nice.

Me too, ASMR is awesome.

Haven't seen the latest episode yet but (kind of) looking forward to.

Yaxomoxay - that was an unusual spurt of aggression from you! Very out of character. Honestly I think at this point I'm going to find it hard to care much about Ed and Norma for the reasons others have stated. I cared about them a LOT in the original but at this point one or two scenes aren't necessarily going to immediately rekindle those old feelings. I would hope none of us are so attached to being disappointed that we're going to criticise no matter what but I think at this point it's going to be very difficult or impossible to salvage this as a whole. Still hoping for a great finale though.

Just one point I wanted to address which is that Lynch & Frost aren't making this with fans' reaction in mind. I think that isn't completely the case, the James 'Just You' performance was an absolutely undeniable 'nod' (or middle finger up) to the fans? I think it at least shows an awareness of how fans have reacted to certain characters or scenes. I'm not suggesting they're reading Dugpa but I think they probably have a pretty good grasp of how fans reacted to and are reacting to TP.

I usually use white noise, possibly deep sounds. I like the electrical sounds in "Anthology Resouce vol 1" but unfortunately the sounds are often "interrupted" and not continuous. The youtube channel "Relaxing White Noise" has some incredible stuff.
As for my tone, it didn't feel aggressive when I wrote the post. Only a re-reading after two cups of coffee revealed to me the tone.

As for the "fans in mind", I agree. I don't think that L/F are either doing everything for fans' sake or just to troll. They have a story they want to say, and they added some elements for the fans, something that was possible probably by the fact that they had 18 hours to toy with.


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I don't know if Just You or anything else is specifically geared at fans. I think Lynch just likes what he likes and wants to highlight what he likes. Just You, for example, shows how James, like a lot of people in the town, is still stuck. The reveal of the two backup singers was surreal.

[boske]

Just saw it, some initial remarks:

• I liked Mr.C's scenes, Phillip Jeffries is clearly with the Tin Machine now...
• Mr C with Richard sure brings back memories of Dr. Evil and Scotty. Richard finally got some parenting he was clearly overdue; Maybe Mr. C buys him a green bike now...
• R.I.P. Margaret/Catherine ;
• Lynch IMO clearly admitted trolling us with Dougie all this time here; Plus, Gordon Cole is the bad guy, even Dougie figured it out;
• James, Green glove, embarrassing, what is there to say, double facepalm;
• Naido == Judy? Do we care anymore?
• For a moment I thought it was Brian Ferry with Chantal
• Nadine could lose her shovel before the show ends, and then we'd be back to square one... Let's not waste any time over this "resolution";
• Todd sure did not move much for the past 15 parts, I hope Patrick Fishler was not paid by the distance traveled in the show;
• Looking forward to the end, I never thought I'd say this, the last two parts can't come soon enough;
• Yes, we have set the bar too low, the show sucks, we know it;

[Jonah]

. Also, it felt a bit unbelievable to me after 25 years, that Ed would stick it out that long, that Norma would. It's a scene that would have worked better a couple of years after Season 2 - not 25 years after it! It just doesn't feel believable. .

Actually I found it very believable. Think about it. Ed is definitely an honorable man, but he's also a bit of a coward. He made a pledge and he kept it, and he's afraid of letting go, of being confrontational with Nadine who always overpowered him. In addition - a very important addition - each time he looks at her he is reminded of his role in carving Nadine's eye out. And more than that he knows and always felt that he destroyed Nadine's life by marrying her. And she's a suicidal person. Given their background I felt that it made perfect sense. She found her true happiness in a goofy way, and he is now free.

There are many couples where one party doesn't speak and is victim of violence, abuse, or even misunderstands forever.

Maybe, but I still think it was mishandled in this new series. A little more lead-in would have been better. It kind of came out of nowhere and relied too heavily on knowledge of the original series. I also think it hurt that it came only two episodes after Ed was reintroduced. The whole thing sort of came out of nowhere. And whether or not Ed would have stayed with Nadine for so long, I find it difficult to believe Norma would have stuck it out another 25 years and wouldn't have moved on by then, given how weary and close to moving on she sometimes seemed to be in Season 1 and 2 (and I don't think Walter counts). I don't know. I liked it - but I just found the placement and build-up to it badly handled. I think it would've worked better several years ago. 25 years is a very long time. Oh well - it is what it is. I think it's just another example of how sidelining the original characters to such small roles in this new series has hurt the show. I mean, we saw countless episodes of Norma doing paperwork, then the whole Walter/Ed thing was - barely - introduced in Part 13. And it's never made clear if Ed/Nadine are even still together. Then we had another episode - 14 - that didn't mention any of it. Then suddenly Part 15 starts with this big pay off to something that was only introduced/reintroduced. It was poorly handled, I think. And feels more like the "Missing Pieces" of FWWM than anything else. Maybe that's the point, I don't know.

[yaxomoxay]

. Also, it felt a bit unbelievable to me after 25 years, that Ed would stick it out that long, that Norma would. It's a scene that would have worked better a couple of years after Season 2 - not 25 years after it! It just doesn't feel believable. .

Actually I found it very believable. Think about it. Ed is definitely an honorable man, but he's also a bit of a coward. He made a pledge and he kept it, and he's afraid of letting go, of being confrontational with Nadine who always overpowered him. In addition - a very important addition - each time he looks at her he is reminded of his role in carving Nadine's eye out. And more than that he knows and always felt that he destroyed Nadine's life by marrying her. And she's a suicidal person. Given their background I felt that it made perfect sense. She found her true happiness in a goofy way, and he is now free.

There are many couples where one party doesn't speak and is victim of violence, abuse, or even misunderstands forever.

Maybe, but I still think it was mishandled in this new series. A little more lead-in would have been better. It kind of came out of nowhere and relied too heavily on knowledge of the original series. I also think it hurt that it came only two episodes after Ed was reintroduced. The whole thing sort of came out of nowhere. And whether or not Ed would have stayed with Nadine for so long, I find it difficult to believe Norma would have stuck it out another 25 years and wouldn't have moved on by then, given how weary and close to moving on she sometimes seemed to be in Season 1 and 2 (and I don't think Walter counts). I don't know. I liked it - but I just found the placement and build-up to it badly handled. I think it would've have worked better several years ago. 25 years is a very long time. Oh well - it is what it is. I think it's just another example of how sidelining the original characters to such small roles in this new series has hurt the show. I mean, we saw countless episodes of Norma doing paperwork, then the whole Walter/Ed thing was - barely - introduced in Part 13. And it's never made clear if Ed/Nadine are even still together. Then we had another episode - 14 - that didn't mention any of it. Then suddenly Part 15 starts with this big pay off to something that was only introduced/reintroduced. It was poorly handled, I think. And feels more like the "Missing Pieces" of FWWM than anything else. Maybe that's the point, I don't know.

Very good observations, I won't deny it. However, I find very difficult to find a single "original" character who has moved on entirely. Even Bobby, who is certainly reformed and the one that changed the most, is still under his father's spell. What I am trying to say is that it fits the general theme, wether we agree with it or not.


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[Jonah]

Very good observations, I won't deny it. However, I find very difficult to find a single "original" character who has moved on entirely. Even Bobby, who is certainly reformed and the one that changed the most, is still under his father's spell. What I am trying to say is that it fits the general theme, wether we agree with it or not.

I think you're right about that. Thematically, it does fit. I did sort of like some of it. But maybe it's just the way it was handled - and how much of the series has been handled in terms of editing and writing - that it felt like it fell a bit short or didn't connect as strongly as it could have.