Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

[mtwentz]

I've been catching up on the posts I've missed on this thread, and there's one point discussed that's been irking me, about how Lynch isn't pandering to the audience in TPTR. I have to disagree. Lynch may not be pandering to the general public, but, IMHO, he is pandering to critics, hipsters, and a load of other "high brow" journalists and publications. And that's a very sad state of affairs, I think, because what I used to like the most about him was how wild, innovative, and true to his vision he was. Not anymore.

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You are impugning motives to another human being. We all do it from time to time...but unless you can get inside that other person's head, it's just random speculation.

BTW, Lynch has always been accused of being 'pretentious' and 'weird for weird's sake'. Isn't it just possible that the guy just puts on film what he enjoys putting on film?

[AhmedKhalifa]

Pretty good article from the NY Times that can help explain how Twin Peaks: The Return can be considered extremely high quality, bold filmmaking while being very difficult for some to digest:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/24/arts ... ml?mcubz=1

Thanks for posting that in this thread. Read it, now done a complete 180 and believe The Return is the best thing ever! Good work mtwentz.

It's amazing how us simple folk who don't like TPTR, can be completely educated and enlightened by the NY times and appreciate TPTR for the groundbreaking and incomparable piece of art that it is. Not!

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[AhmedKhalifa]

I've been catching up on the posts I've missed on this thread, and there's one point discussed that's been irking me, about how Lynch isn't pandering to the audience in TPTR. I have to disagree. Lynch may not be pandering to the general public, but, IMHO, he is pandering to critics, hipsters, and a load of other "high brow" journalists and publications. And that's a very sad state of affairs, I think, because what I used to like the most about him was how wild, innovative, and true to his vision he was. Not anymore.

Sent from my Lenovo A2020a40 using Tapatalk

You are impugning motives to another human being. We all do it from time to time...but unless you can get inside that other person's head, it's just random speculation.

BTW, Lynch has always been accused of being 'pretentious' and 'weird for weird's sake'. Isn't it just possible that the guy just puts on film what he enjoys putting on film?

The only way you can judge an artist is through his art. And Lynch's art has changed for me, and so the man must have changed. I am not impugning motives by having an opinion, just like you're not impugning motives by relentlessly defending Lynch and TPTR, right?

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[mlsstwrt]

Pretty good article from the NY Times that can help explain how Twin Peaks: The Return can be considered extremely high quality, bold filmmaking while being very difficult for some to digest:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/24/arts ... ml?mcubz=1

Thanks for posting that in this thread. Read it, now done a complete 180 and believe The Return is the best thing ever! Good work mtwentz.

I thought you could benefit from an objective point of view...

How is the view of the journalist writing that any more objective than anybody else's view? Do you think because this is in the fucking New York times that it proves that TPTR is 'good'?

[referendum]

mtwentz

I thought you could benefit from an objective point of view...

this coming from someone who named themselves after a fictional food critic who was too up her own ass to eat her own daughter's omelette without moaning, and who gave a great diner a shite ( oops sorry objective) review, alienating said daughter whilst failing to see her husband was a thieving bastard taking her for what he could?

Yeah, right

[mlsstwrt]

mtwentz

I thought you could benefit from an objective point of view...

this coming from someone who named themselves after a fictional food critic who was too up her own ass to eat her own daughter's omelette without moaning, and who gave a great diner a shite ( oops sorry objective) review, alienating said daughter whilst failing to see her husband was a thieving bastard taking her for what he could?

Yeah, right

[mtwentz]

Thanks for posting that in this thread. Read it, now done a complete 180 and believe The Return is the best thing ever! Good work mtwentz.

I thought you could benefit from an objective point of view...

How is the view of the journalist writing that any more objective than anybody else's view? Do you think because this is in the fucking New York times that it proves that TPTR is 'good'?

The viewpoint of movie critics is more objective than that of fans (you and me both included).

However, I would not take one single movie critic's word for it- I would take an aggregation of critics to be the closest we have to an objective evaluation of any movie. These metrics are far from perfect, but they are the best we have (as far as I know):

Rotten Tomatoes
Meta-critic

The Return is generally seen in a positive light by the majority of critics, so far. Does this invalidate how you personally feel about it? No, absolutely not. It does, however, show that objectively the show can be seen as an artistic success, at least up until this point.

[The Gazebo]

Pretty good article from the NY Times that can help explain how Twin Peaks: The Return can be considered extremely high quality, bold filmmaking while being very difficult for some to digest:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/24/arts ... ml?mcubz=1

Thanks. For me, I don't think 'extremely high quality' was justified based on that article. The writer compares it to a dream - 'wondrously and terrifyingly' - which is his opinion. I have two disagreements with the gist of the article:

1. Apart from David Lynch trying to tell us we live inside a dream (or something to that effect), I don't really see too many similarities with my own dreams, anyway (most dreams are surreal, illogical, repetitive, etc). They're not like the bright, polished, carefully paced scenes from Vegas or Twin Peaks.

2. In his view, it's the slowness which is the main challenge for viewers. Again, I have to disagree. I love many of the slow scenes. What I have less time for, is the complete lack of a compelling story or compelling characters, echoed by many others here. I still don't really know what I'm waiting for, and I'm not particularly enjoying the ride, having fooled myself into being sort of okay with it up until a few weeks ago.

Just for the record, being head over heels in love with the show is absolutely fine, and up to each and every viewer. But TV critics aren't really doing their job, so far, by not at least acknowledging/addressing the real divisive nature of the show, and arguing why the aforementioned problems are unimportant to the overall high quality, as they see it.

[referendum]

The Return is generally seen in a positive light by the majority of critics, so far. Does this invalidate how you personally feel about it? No, absolutely not. It does, however, show that objectively the show can be seen as an artistic success, at least up until this point.

no, it doesn't.

It demonstrates how critical response can find a consensus in a given cultural context towards a particular film at a particular historical moment while caught up in the week-by-week rush of reviewing to deadline. That is not the same as objectivity. The critical tide could turn in five years like it did for FWWM. Then which version would be objective? What you are looking at is a bunch of people who look over each other's shoulder at each others reviews ( and are the kinds of people who would review Twin Peaks and not Gordon Ramsay's Hotel Hell, a self-selecting sample of people inclined to be favourable ) who have arrived at a similar subjective judgement, more or less en masse. Don't kid yourself any of them are more objective than you or I.

[Venus]

I thought you could benefit from an objective point of view...

How is the view of the journalist writing that any more objective than anybody else's view? Do you think because this is in the fucking New York times that it proves that TPTR is 'good'?

The viewpoint of movie critics is more objective than that of fans (you and me both included).

However, I would not take one single movie critic's word for it- I would take an aggregation of critics to be the closest we have to an objective evaluation of any movie. These metrics are far from perfect, but they are the best we have (as far as I know):

Rotten Tomatoes
Meta-critic

The Return is generally seen in a positive light by the majority of critics, so far. Does this invalidate how you personally feel about it? No, absolutely not. It does, however, show that objectively the show can be seen as an artistic success, at least up until this point.

I've not really read too many reviews on it. I think for me because, even though I'm subscribing to see it, I don't have to actively go and buy a ticket then go out to see it like I would with the cinema so am not too swayed by tv reviews. My time can be limited so if I'm going to the cinema I'll want to pick and choose what I see and arrange to go with a friend more often than not. With TPTR I just get in from work and switch it on - job done. So reviews don't sway me on whether or not it is worth going to the trouble of watching TPTR. I do find it fascinating that reviews are so positive as you say. But I just think different folks different strokes and not everyone can like everything so what the hey. Let them have their thoughts and I'll have mine. I've loved stuff before that everyone has panned. But if I like it I like it. If I don't, I don't.

Good attempt at stirring everyone up though MT. I'll give you points for the reasoned way you do it, but a C- for the result.

[mtwentz]

How is the view of the journalist writing that any more objective than anybody else's view? Do you think because this is in the fucking New York times that it proves that TPTR is 'good'?

The viewpoint of movie critics is more objective than that of fans (you and me both included).

However, I would not take one single movie critic's word for it- I would take an aggregation of critics to be the closest we have to an objective evaluation of any movie. These metrics are far from perfect, but they are the best we have (as far as I know):

Rotten Tomatoes
Meta-critic

The Return is generally seen in a positive light by the majority of critics, so far. Does this invalidate how you personally feel about it? No, absolutely not. It does, however, show that objectively the show can be seen as an artistic success, at least up until this point.

I've not really read too many reviews on it. I think for me because, even though I'm subscribing to see it, I don't have to actively go and buy a ticket then go out to see it like I would with the cinema so am not too swayed by tv reviews. My time can be limited so if I'm going to the cinema I'll want to pick and choose what I see and arrange to go with a friend more often than not. With TPTR I just get in from work and switch it on - job done. So reviews don't sway me on whether or not it is worth going to the trouble of watching TPTR. I do find it fascinating that reviews are so positive as you say. But I just think different folks different strokes and not everyone can like everything so what the hey. Let them have their thoughts and I'll have mine. I've loved stuff before that everyone has panned. But if I like it I like it. If I don't, I don't.

Good attempt at stirring everyone up though MT. I'll give you points for the reasoned way you do it, but a C- for the result.

Heeyyyy, where's my "A" for effort

[Venus]

The viewpoint of movie critics is more objective than that of fans (you and me both included).

However, I would not take one single movie critic's word for it- I would take an aggregation of critics to be the closest we have to an objective evaluation of any movie. These metrics are far from perfect, but they are the best we have (as far as I know):

Rotten Tomatoes
Meta-critic

The Return is generally seen in a positive light by the majority of critics, so far. Does this invalidate how you personally feel about it? No, absolutely not. It does, however, show that objectively the show can be seen as an artistic success, at least up until this point.

I've not really read too many reviews on it. I think for me because, even though I'm subscribing to see it, I don't have to actively go and buy a ticket then go out to see it like I would with the cinema so am not too swayed by tv reviews. My time can be limited so if I'm going to the cinema I'll want to pick and choose what I see and arrange to go with a friend more often than not. With TPTR I just get in from work and switch it on - job done. So reviews don't sway me on whether or not it is worth going to the trouble of watching TPTR. I do find it fascinating that reviews are so positive as you say. But I just think different folks different strokes and not everyone can like everything so what the hey. Let them have their thoughts and I'll have mine. I've loved stuff before that everyone has panned. But if I like it I like it. If I don't, I don't.

Good attempt at stirring everyone up though MT. I'll give you points for the reasoned way you do it, but a C- for the result.

Heeyyyy, where's my "A" for effort

You got downgraded when I saw what you said that time about the disappointed crew in the other thread

[MysteryMan14]

Ouch, did I strike a nerve? More than two people were involved back then, they may not have been punks at the time, and it is not yet clear who the actual punk is now. Listen, if I see a middle finger pointed at me I reserve the right to call it what it is. Better? And yes, I am leaving it, bear with us in this insignificant little thread for a few more weeks.

I dont have any problem with this thread moreover I dont love the Return I see many flaws which the show has but I think that the new TP is far more better than those episodes after Leland's death from season two.
I always was a TP fan more than a Lynch fanboy but I dont agree with people like you who are writing about a middle finger, punks and that L&F ruin the original TP. They created a world which we all loved many years ago so I think they deserve some respect even if you dont enjoy It.
Now you can hammer me.

We can respectfully disagree, there is no need to hammer anything or anybody.

As I said earlier (and I might add a few other people in this thread, not everybody though), it does seem that we are teased, if not outright trolled. If the show's creator(s) assume such an attitude with respect to the work and its audience, in my opinion it is fair game that we respond to it adequately, but not at any time involve the creators personally, just their intentions. I might feel that TR vandalizes the original, but it still does not mean that other people cannot enjoy both the new and old TP, why not? I do honestly believe that as we learn more about the Return, that this teasing/trolling aspect of it will become more public. Will it? We'll see. Cheers!

Ok it's fine I dont hold a grudge against you, cheers.

[boske]

About ten or fifteen years ago when you watched news on TV, as soon as they were read you were able to focus, digest them, and try to think what it all means. Nowadays, there has been a proliferation of these so called "news analysts" that sit in the studios, and as soon as the news is being read they preempt me from thinking, and try instead to tell me what it is that I just heard and what it really means. And if there is a bleached blonde alongside in the studio, so much better. In their mind at least. Plus the restless ticker at the bottom of the screen to further distract me and forget what it was all about.

The same with these critics. I do not need to read or hear what a critic thinks of a movie or series. Let me see if first, and then we'll exchange our opinions. I still have my brain and I'd like to use it. As the saying goes: use it or lose it.

[Here Comes That Bob]

Pretty good article from the NY Times that can help explain how Twin Peaks: The Return can be considered extremely high quality, bold filmmaking while being very difficult for some to digest:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/24/arts ... ml?mcubz=1

Nice try...