Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

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referendum
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby referendum » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:21 am

Candie: ''Cooper coming out of his coma totally cured is beyond cliche and one of the biggest writing sins I can think of, and undermines a lot of what Stooper Coop's story had to say about mental disabilities, since disabled people don't suddenly "snap out of it" as such, even with everyone around them expecting them to/hoping for it.''
Referendum:'' Cooper was not 'mentally disabled' while he was Dougie - he was stuck in a psychic limbo, trapped in the shell of Dougie's life, aware of everything that was going on ( eg Mullin's gun), unable to break out of the trap that Bad Coop set for him.
Candie: ''Because people with mental handicaps are never aware of their surroundings or their situation, riiight. Lots of people have been drawing parallels to Alzheimers and other things, it's not really that unexpected.''

Twin Peaks has never struck me as a programme that is trying to ' say something about people with mental disabilities'.This series is a story about an uber intelligent FBI agent and how he eventually escapes from the supernatural trap set for him by his evil twin - it is not a socially conscious docu-drama. You say disabled people don't suddenly ' snap out of it' - well, they don't gradually get better over time, either. If you think Lynch or Frost were trying to say something about people with mental disabilities, well, I can only marvel at how different people's interpretation of the same television programme can be.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Doppler » Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:24 am

https://youtu.be/tLi-mtK8JJA

When fans of The Return praise EP16 as the best one yet after pointing out that the lack of fan-service and reusing old characters and re-hashing scenes is what made it good.
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Dreamy Audrey
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Dreamy Audrey » Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:43 am

Wow. After the great Part 15 I was hoping we'd get three great final episodes, but Part 16 was mostly disappointing again :(

- I was looking forward to the talk that Mr. C. promised Richard and then we didn't get to see that. At least Mr. C. confirmed he is Richard's father. But what I didn't get is Mr. C. telling Richard he was 25 years his senior. Richard must be around 25 at the moment, if he was born some time after season 2, that makes Cooper 50 now and about 25 in season 2! That doesn't make much sense...
- Jerry was running around the forest high so that he could watch Mr. C. and Richard at the stone. That doesn't make his earlier scenes any better.
- Chantal and Hutch were annoying as always and their deaths were so random. Did they even contribute anything to the story at all? So much time wasted that could have been used for interesting storylines :( Well, at least they are gone now and probably won't show up again.
- Diane's rape was just a stupid plot device and no one seems to care about her. Diane obviously existed as a real person once and Gordon and Albert knew her, but they didn't seem shocked or concerned by her disappearance. Tammy didn't seem concerned either, all that mattered was: cool, tulpas really exist. Who cares what happened to the real Diane? :roll:
- I'm glad that Cooper's back, but his scenes dragged unnecessarily just like Dougie's scenes and I'm not really interested in his story anymore. Maybe I would have liked his scenes more if they had happened earlier this season and this was the only dragging DougieCooper scene.
- No scenes in Twin Peaks at all (I don't count the Roadhouse in Audrey's mind).
- I liked Audrey's scene, but unfortunately some idiot who had seen the leaked episode claimed that it would be revealed what's going on with Audrey. Because of that the scene felt a bit underwhelming, and it didn't really reveal anything about her situation at all, it only confirmed that something weird is going on with her.
judasbooth
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby judasbooth » Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:25 am

Well, I didn't hate this epsiode, but saying that I liked it better than most of the other ones is faint praise indeed. It just seems utterly stupid to me that all of these plotlines were set up, dragged out for about 15 episodes and then magically resolved with little warning. A lot of people have complained about the arbitrary way in which a lot of the characters have been killed. There is a very simple explanation for this: poor writing. Bill Hastings, Mr Todd, Ray, Richard Horne, Hutch and Chantal were all killed because they had fulfilled whatever purpose they served, plot-wise. I mean, why bother going to the trouble of closing off their characters with clever writing, when you can just have their heads crushed by evil spirits, or have them electrocuted by.. whatever, or by having some random character shoot them? I swear, the minute that guy approached Hutch and Chantal's van, I thought to myself "I bet that guy's got an Uzi in his car".

Oh and while we're at it, what exactly was the point in all the pantomime around killing DougieCoop? Mr C tried sending a vertically-challenged assassin to kill him. He also set up an elaborate scheme whereby, following insurance fraud, Dougie would be framed for stealing from the Mitchums, thereby earning their enmity and marking him for assassination. Why didn't he just send the redneck sharpshooters in the first place? Because them we wouldn't have been able to fill about ten episodes with the Adventures of RainManCoop in Las Vegas, that's why.

Rather than make this series any better, the return of the Coop we know and love puts this series' failings into even sharper relief. What we wouldn't have given for Cooper to have been there from the start. Audrey's Dance was an in-yr-face callback to the old show, and made me ache for at least a hint of what the show used to be.

Oh, and the final shot of Audrey does not bode well. The scene around her looks suspiciously hospital-like, and as some have suggested elsewhere, she could well be in a coma resulting from the bank explosion. If the whole series turns out to be a figment of Audrey's imagination, that will be the cop-out to end all cop-outs. Random prediction for next week's finale: One-Armed Man manufactures Dougie 2.0 and sends him to live happily ever after with Janey-E and Sonny Jim. Cooper finds Laura Palmer and brings her back to life (because, fuck it, any concessions to plausibility were thrown out long ago) thereby undermining the whole reason for the whole show existing in the first place. I mean, why care about the life and death of Laura Palmer when nobody in this world ever really dies?

I did chuckle at Jerry looking through the wrong end of his binoculars, though...
Last edited by judasbooth on Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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yaxomoxay
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby yaxomoxay » Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:27 am

sylvia_north wrote:I just can't, I accept the goofiness like Dick Tremayne and the ferret.


Ahhahahaha ;)

Won over at last. Deepest sorrow for those who have been profoundly disappointed. :cry:


Yay!


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N. Needleman
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby N. Needleman » Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:30 am

judasbooth wrote:Rather than make this series any better, the return of the Coop we know and love puts this series' failings into even sharper relief. What we wouldn't have given for Cooper to have been there from the start.


Honest question: How would the hyper-competent Cooper of this episode - who's now taken time to spiritually recover after 25 years in the Black Lodge, I might add - not have quickly and capably solved every storyline on the show in five episodes or less? Where is the tension in that?
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby yaxomoxay » Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:31 am

Dreamy Audrey wrote:- Diane's rape was just a stupid plot device and no one seems to care about her. Diane obviously existed as a real person once and Gordon and Albert knew her, but they didn't seem shocked or concerned by her disappearance. Tammy didn't seem concerned either, all that mattered was: cool, tulpas really exist. Who cares what happened to the real Diane? :roll:


Probably because they already knew what happened to the real Diane. Gordon clearly says that he felt "it" when Diane hugged him (and you can see his expression during the scene outside of the prison).
At any rate I would like to point out something about Diane: we haven't seen her yet. We have seen her appearance, her character, but we never saw the actual Diane.


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squealy
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby squealy » Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:33 am

Candie wrote:Someone else corrected me on that recently. Sure would have been nice if we'd ever seen them interacting with the rest of the Vegas cast, outside their office, or had any indication through set design that their offices were in fact in Vegas.

I thought the floor to ceiling windows behind him, through which you could clearly see Las Vegas, were a pretty big clue.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby mlsstwrt » Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:36 am

N. Needleman wrote:
judasbooth wrote:Rather than make this series any better, the return of the Coop we know and love puts this series' failings into even sharper relief. What we wouldn't have given for Cooper to have been there from the start.


Honest question: How would the hyper-competent Cooper of this episode - who's now taken time to spiritually recover after 25 years in the Black Lodge, I might add - not have quickly and capably solved every storyline on the show in five episodes or less? Where is the tension in that?


Well we had the hyper-competent Cooper in the original from the start. So how was there such tension in the original?

Audrey's dance made me sad. So beguiling in the original... couldn't help but laugh now. Sorry.

It was easily the most entertaining Episode of TPTR so far but too little too late unfortunately. It's also sort of hard to feel amped about the finale when we're not exactly sure what this has all been building up to.... a showdown between the two Coops I guess? Diane really is one of the worst characters to ever grace the TV screen. Only wish her death could have been more gruesome. Nice to see Lynch breaking out his old Commodore 64 for the special effects though.
Last edited by mlsstwrt on Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
judasbooth
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby judasbooth » Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:43 am

N. Needleman wrote:
judasbooth wrote:Rather than make this series any better, the return of the Coop we know and love puts this series' failings into even sharper relief. What we wouldn't have given for Cooper to have been there from the start.


Honest question: How would the hyper-competent Cooper of this episode - who's now taken time to spiritually recover after 25 years in the Black Lodge, I might add - not have quickly and capably solved every storyline on the show in five episodes or less? Where is the tension in that?


Your question implies that filling up 14 epsiodes with the adventures of StuporCooper has built up some kind of dramatic tension. I must have missed all that. All I know is that all of the Las Vegas stuff bored me to death.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby dronerstone » Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:52 am

Nice. I know this is the thread for the disappointed, but in a nutshell kinda way one could easily take what happened back when the music was introduced and replace it with our favorite FBI agent.

At first "gimme my Cooper! I miss Cooper! This isn't Cooper!"

Episode 16: Cooper back in action, sets things in motion and is on his way to Twin Peaks quickly.

Disappointed fans' reaction: "this is not what I wanted!!!"

Bah.
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Here Comes That Bob
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Here Comes That Bob » Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:02 am

dronerstone wrote:Nice. I know this is the thread for the disappointed, but in a nutshell kinda way one could easily take what happened back when the music was introduced and replace it with our favorite FBI agent.

At first "gimme my Cooper! I miss Cooper! This isn't Cooper!"

Episode 16: Cooper back in action, sets things in motion and is on his way to Twin Peaks quickly.

Disappointed fans' reaction: "this is not what I wanted!!!"

Bah.


With excruciating DougieCoop journey we had to endure, I assume most dissapointed fans have stopped caring about Cooper and his fate long ago. And now that he returned past 15 episodes seem like a waste and unneccesary dragging. It's really not that difficult to understand.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby yaxomoxay » Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:13 am

Here Comes That Bob wrote:
dronerstone wrote:Nice. I know this is the thread for the disappointed, but in a nutshell kinda way one could easily take what happened back when the music was introduced and replace it with our favorite FBI agent.

At first "gimme my Cooper! I miss Cooper! This isn't Cooper!"

Episode 16: Cooper back in action, sets things in motion and is on his way to Twin Peaks quickly.

Disappointed fans' reaction: "this is not what I wanted!!!"

Bah.


With excruciating DougieCoop journey we had to endure, I assume most dissapointed fans have stopped caring about Cooper and his fate long ago. And now that he returned past 15 episodes seem like a waste and unneccesary dragging. It's really not that difficult to understand.


So he's out of the excruciating journey you hate so much and you don't like it? I truly don't understand.
Honestly it feels like you are a bit ... entitled? Not sure what word to use because I don't want to sound offensive. But two months ago you had no Cooper at all. Today you have him. Yes as of today Cooper is back. Even if you don't like the Dougie storyline... he's back as you (and I) wished. Yet you're not happy because it's not exactly what you wanted. No, I truly don't understand the feeling ... today.


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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby boske » Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:16 am

For people who do not get it why some folks here are not ecstatic to finally have the Coop back: If I am somebody's friend and invite them for a drink, I do not sucker punch them and kick them in the groin area before finally serving the drink. See, here's your Coop, sorry for the 14 parts of sheer nonsense, teasing, and Chantal-style torture. That horse has bolted the barn here long time ago, go back and read this thread a bit before trying to lecture us.
Last edited by boske on Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Dreamy Audrey
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Dreamy Audrey » Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:17 am

dronerstone wrote:Nice. I know this is the thread for the disappointed, but in a nutshell kinda way one could easily take what happened back when the music was introduced and replace it with our favorite FBI agent.

At first "gimme my Cooper! I miss Cooper! This isn't Cooper!"

Episode 16: Cooper back in action, sets things in motion and is on his way to Twin Peaks quickly.

Disappointed fans' reaction: "this is not what I wanted!!!"

Bah.

You're really missing the point of why people are disappointed with the episodes.

Besides, we could say something similar about the people who overly praise the show. When we got Dougie and wanted the real Cooper they said it would be stupid to get back Cooper like he was 25 years ago (which wasn't even what we asked for). Now we got back the same old Cooper and they love it. Suddenly it's not stupid anymore?

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