Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

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Dreamy Audrey
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Dreamy Audrey » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:01 am

dronerstone wrote:Those who say "it's bad" got their use of language wrong.
It's rather "i don't like it" because it's a matter of taste after all.

You should tell that to the people who love the series, because they usually write "It's great", "it's the best series ever", and so on.
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yaxomoxay
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Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby yaxomoxay » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:03 am

[quote="AnotherBlueRoseCase] The Return isn’t just bad or disappointing like The Godfather III. ![/quote]

I'll reply only to this for now (going to the dentist). Godfather III is a great movie, but one has to know what was happening in Italy in the 1970's/early 1980's to appreciate it. That's its main flaw. It is a difficult movie to appreciate if one does not know about Monsignor Marcinikus, Aldo Moro's kidnapping and then hideous murder, the 30 days of pope John Paul I (and his Russian Orthodox counterpart that died right in front of him in the papal office), the still unsolved kidnapping of Emanuela Orlandi, the IOR, the years of lead, the alleged State-Mafia pact signed by prime minister Giulio Andreotti, the Dalla Chiesa mafia murders, etc


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Candie
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Candie » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:12 am

AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:It’s understandable if people think calling it a disaster is hyperbolic. Artistic disasters are not that easy to produce. Again, simple incompetence is not enough. E.g. telenovelas don’t aim high enough to experience the fall and splat of real disasters. So if I read the word ‘disaster’ on a TV discussion board I’d assume it was hyperbole.

this is a beautiful rant and I'm so reading it to all my fellow disappointed friends.
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boske
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby boske » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:14 am

When TP aired originally I was 18. I remember watching that very last scene with maniacal/giddy Cooper as Frost and Lynch names appeared on the screen. And I said to myself "can this really be it?" It was such a loss at the end of that dark, tragic, and yet beautiful and magical journey, to imagine that this iconic character would be resigned to such a fate without any possibility of redemption.

Does it matter? Sure it does, why not? Hundreds of years have passed and Shakespeare's plays still resonate, the same so with Dante's or Goethe's work, for example.

I always felt that Lynch sincerely liked this world that he and Frost have created, and that if it were up to him, and if the right moment and inspiration came along, he'd revisit it and give this world and its characters some closure, some peace and justice. So I never gave hope, just like the people who set up and ran this site. I was on this board in early 2000s (did not register until much later), when the show was as dead as a door knob. Why? So that I can be called a "hater" 15 years later? Some people feel like this thread is a like a zoo with some exotic animals. What I see are genuine fans of the show (not to take anything from people who like the Return), whose issues with the Return strike a chord with me. I understand them, I get what it is that bothers them, it bothers me too.

Anyway, in the intertwining years, I was still rewatching the originals occasionally, and the accompanying music was always (and still is) nearby (in the air) whenever I feel like listening to it. Soundtracks and both Julee Cruise's albums are still in my collection and on my phone and will remain there. Last autumn as I was travelling late at night, I played the entire TP Archive, that is about 7 hours of music. Yes, and some of that was while driving through forests, that was quite an experience.

And then: "Dear Twitter friends, that gum that you like is coming back in style". And here we are right now. That gum did not come back in style, there was no style whatsoever, and the gum was nowhere to be seen either.

The past pages of this thread give the reason why this Return for me is such a missed opportunity. This is once in a lifetime chance, and they blew it. Yes, it may receive some critical acclaim, and yes, most of the people will love it. But this is a pale shadow (no pun intended) of what it may have been. Would Return create a fan base that would wait another 25 years for it to continue if it were possible? Honestly?

We should have gotten a compelling story with real and compassionate characters. Around here nobody is watching it anymore. Years ago all my friends were, nowadays it is hard to find anybody who does. We did get some news articles when the Return was just about to air and that was it, nothing since then. Complete silence. Even HBO Europe is not advertising it anymore, has not been for at least a month if not more.

There can be no excuses for what they have done with Dougie, how that was played and executed. The same with these myriad characters. What was the goal here? What was their aim? What were they trying to achieve? The past pages also go into the feel, mood, atmosphere, heart. There is barely any.

So yes, at this point I do not care. Yes, I know, Coop is back. But it is like a story of a boy who courts a girl and week after week she gives him some excuses. One after another. Soon enough he feels the she may be playing him for sports and even suspects she tells her friends how dumb he really is. And then he goes cold, that's it. Whatever interest there was is now no more, it is not coming back. She may finally say yes to him, but that train has left the station and is not coming back. Yes, this may sounds cheesy or silly, but there are limits in teasing your audience. If your main goal is to tease them week after week and give that what they want in the eleventh hour or later, maybe it is better to have not given it to them at all. Otherwise it feels like you are having some pity for having humiliated them for so long.

I'll try to approach the last two hours as a standalone feature, maybe there will be just that one positive thing about it all. And then the curtain falls on it. As I said earlier, I should have read a book or two instead of watching this. For people who like the show, I hope you gets season 4, I'm not watching though.
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Doppler
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Doppler » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:24 am

I've never felt so emotionally disconnected from characters in any TV show I've ever seen. It's mind-boggling:

The pair of assassins were killed by an unknown guy, I don't give a damn.

Richard dies, who gives a shit, all he did was establish he was a bad guy.

Dougie is no longer, thank god.

Cooper is back to have 3-5 meaningless scenes in the last episode. Wow, that really redeems the season... not.

The waste of Laura Dern that was Diane is dead. Fuck her, I wish they didn't destroy the mystery of Cooper's tape recorder in the first place.

Oh right, I nearly forgot THAT WAS THE BEST HOUR OF TELEVISION 1!11!EVER! 11!
Candie
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Candie » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:28 am

Doppler wrote:I've never felt so emotionally disconnected from characters in any TV show I've ever seen. It's mind-boggling:

The pair of assassins were killed by an unknown guy, I don't give a damn.

Richard dies, who gives a shit, all he did was establish he was a bad guy.

Dougie is no longer, thank god.

Cooper is back to have 3-5 meaningless scenes in the last episode. Wow, that really redeems the season... not.

The waste of Laura Dern that was Diane is dead. Fuck her, I wish they didn't destroy the mystery of Cooper's tape recorder in the first place.

Oh right, I nearly forgot THAT WAS THE BEST HOUR OF TELEVISION 1!11!EVER! 11!

[Laura Dern voice] Fuck you, Lynch.
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Dreamy Audrey
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Dreamy Audrey » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:33 am

Doppler wrote:Richard dies, who gives a shit, all he did was establish he was a bad guy.

What was his purpose anyway? To show us that some people are evil? We already had Mr. C. for that. To show us that Mr. C. was an evil rapist? We already had Diane for that. To show us that bad stuff happened to Audrey? We already had that with her weird scenes. If his only purpose was to die on that stone, any other henchman of Mr. C. could have served that purpose. I hope Richard will serve another purpose in the final two episodes, or else he is just another pointless character.
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yaxomoxay
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby yaxomoxay » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:57 am

Dreamy Audrey wrote:
Doppler wrote:Richard dies, who gives a shit, all he did was establish he was a bad guy.

What was his purpose anyway?


Something horrible: hereditary evil. The difficulties of leaving a path that was put in front of you by external circumstances.
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yaxomoxay
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby yaxomoxay » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:58 am

Candie wrote:[Laura Dern voice] Fuck you, Lynch.



You would admit it's incredibly effective ;)
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yaxomoxay
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby yaxomoxay » Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:59 am

Doppler wrote:The waste of Laura Dern that was Diane is dead. Fuck her, I wish they didn't destroy the mystery of Cooper's tape recorder in the first place.


Well, we never saw Diane.


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AnotherBlueRoseCase
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby AnotherBlueRoseCase » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:09 am

Candie wrote:
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:It’s understandable if people think calling it a disaster is hyperbolic. Artistic disasters are not that easy to produce. Again, simple incompetence is not enough. E.g. telenovelas don’t aim high enough to experience the fall and splat of real disasters. So if I read the word ‘disaster’ on a TV discussion board I’d assume it was hyperbole.

this is a beautiful rant and I'm so reading it to all my fellow disappointed friends.


Best of luck. Hope they remain your friends. :)
Lynch on Trump, mid-2018: "He could go down as one of the greatest presidents in history."
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Mallard
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Mallard » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:50 am

Doppler wrote: I wish they didn't destroy the mystery of Cooper's tape recorder in the first place.


Did they? I'm a lot less clear today on who (or what) Diane is (or was) than I ever have been.

After The Missing Pieces, it really didn't see like much of a mystery, aside from what she looked like (which technically still can't be confirmed).
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AhmedKhalifa
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Re: RE: Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby AhmedKhalifa » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:58 am

mlsstwrt wrote:Honestly this thread has turned out way more interesting (and way bigger!) than I thought it would. Really, thank you to everyone (almost everyone) for contributing.

Ultimately it was intended to be a few pages at most of a few of us consoling each other over the loss of something dear to us. The 'disappointment' is over for me, it ended a long time ago. So I'm no longer disappointed but it's not because this has improved, it's because it alienated me so completely that I stopped caring. Now I'm just watching because it's Twin Peaks after all and because after this much investment of course I want to see how it ends.
I just wanted to thank you for creating this thread, and also every single person who has posted on it and made it so interesting. This is the TP discussion board for me, and I'm enjoying it immensely. With the exception of a couple of contrarians who don't seem to understand or accept what and who this thread is for, the discussion here has been lively, intelligent, and presented a loyal TP fan like myself with a safe place to vent, analyze, and even praise the show when it gets anything right. Here's to another 25 years of good conversation :)

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mlsstwrt
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Re: RE: Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby mlsstwrt » Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:02 pm

AhmedKhalifa wrote:
mlsstwrt wrote:Honestly this thread has turned out way more interesting (and way bigger!) than I thought it would. Really, thank you to everyone (almost everyone) for contributing.

Ultimately it was intended to be a few pages at most of a few of us consoling each other over the loss of something dear to us. The 'disappointment' is over for me, it ended a long time ago. So I'm no longer disappointed but it's not because this has improved, it's because it alienated me so completely that I stopped caring. Now I'm just watching because it's Twin Peaks after all and because after this much investment of course I want to see how it ends.
I just wanted to thank you for creating this thread, and also every single person who has posted on it and made it so interesting. This is the TP discussion board for me, and I'm enjoying it immensely. With the exception of a couple of contrarians who don't seem to understand or accept what and who this thread is for, the discussion here has been lively, intelligent, and presented a loyal TP fan like myself with a safe place to vent, analyze, and even praise the show when it gets anything right. Here's to another 25 years of good conversation :)

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Thank YOU Ahmed and your great contributions. It's been great following TPTR along with you all and, for all my criticisms of TR itself, the whole experience has been enjoyable. Life is disparate and isolated enough so it's nice to have a bunch of people centering around something like this, even if we have different views. As an overall experience I'll be kind of sad when it's over.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Venus » Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:38 pm

When Lost Highway came out I seem to remember there being a lot of talk about the Balthazar Getty character going through a psychogenic fugue state (think it was that character, apols if got the wrong one!). Is this entire series Audrey's fugue state and her way of working out who she is? I believe Lynch finds it an interesting state. Did he use the idea for this series too? Considering the clip of her in the white room at the end it's a possible.

As a viewer I found the episode trite and excessively twee. When Cooper awoke so abruptly and adopted the Super Coop persona (all he needed was a cape), it actually felt like the entire scene was taking the piss, hollow and fake. Like it was being played for laughs and it was intentionally badly done. Maybe it's all been done like that because it is in Audrey's imagination though it doesn't make for good viewing. I was thankful seeing Cooper return to himself (yes, I was) however it didn't feel genuine and I felt like he was going to say, 'Alrighty' as Kyle did when he was Trey McDougal in his Sex and the City character - he didn't feel like Dale Cooper. It all felt forced and not natural. It should have felt joyous and euphoric. It was a massive anti-climax imo.

The Audrey dance scene, even in her imagination - was it a 'you can never go back' footnote, a commentary on history not being able to repeated. Even if it was that it was still wrong, wrong, wrong. Quite cringey. On an online Q&A with Sherilyn Fenn I actually asked her how she felt about doing that dance scene in the original series and she said it was really embarrassing. I wonder how she felt about doing this now?

Lynch/Frost simultaneously tweeted to say that gum you like is coming back in style. Well it's been chewed so much that it has become tasteless and there's absolutely no flavour left.
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