Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

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depechehenke
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by depechehenke »

Metamorphia wrote:
Rialto wrote:With the demise of Chantal and Hutch, I'm left wondering - has Lynch been waiting since 1994 to let us know he's not that keen on Tarantino?

Honestly, what was the point of these two except to carry out acts of pointless violence, bitch about fast food, then get dispatched in an over the top shower of bullets as a result of a banal road rage altercation, unconnected to the main plot (such as it is).

This really is Lynch's Love Actually - a rag bag of incomplete ideas stitched together under a nominally unifying banner.
You don't think they typify an underlying culture of ignorance/violence/hatred prevalent in America (and the world) today? They're only unconnected to the plot if you're totally incapable of reading anything vaguely thematic into what you're watching.
That's sweet. I guess Max Perlich's character is also typifying an underyling culture of <insert-what-ever-springs-to-your-mind> that Lynch & Frost so brilliantly captures with such elegant subtlety?
It is either that or the three mentioned characters are if not unconnected then completely pointless to the plot. Which in itself is pointless.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by mlsstwrt »

boske wrote:
douglasb wrote:Mike's lessened 'power' may simply be due to the the fact that Al Strobel is 78 years old. He's clearly a little frail and combined with the way Lynch has shot the Red Room, he sometimes looks a little diminished.
Yes. Let us not forget this is a fine actor and a gentleman. I wish I look that good when I am 78 if I get there.
My comment wasn't meant as any disrespect to the actor. But if the actor is no longer capable of portraying the force that he was in the original/FWWM then maybe don't put him in at all, rather than create an unintentionally comic (at least to me) effect.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by mlsstwrt »

bowisneski wrote:Besides my thank you post a few pages back, I had planned on only reading this thread until the whole show was over because some of the later parts made me appreciate earlier parts more, but Part 16 has left me with a feeling that I want to put out there and I don't have anyone else to talk to this about until a friend gets back from vacation next week and has a chance to watch Part 16.

Part 16 was an unmitigated emotional success for me - I felt the tension as Mr. C and Richard approached the coordinates, dread and slight annoyance filled me as I saw Coop in a coma, Diane opening up touched me and made me feel for this woman who had been replaced, I smiled through the entire Cooper awakening, and the Eddie Vedder song brought tears to my eyes because it seemed like a tight focus on what this season has been about. However, as it stands pre-finale, the more I think about it the more it feels as if it has failed me from a story/character perspective. Despite being only 27, so much of this season that has resonated with me was about loss and the inability to return to comfort or real familiarity from the past, hence the Vedder song connecting with me. I thought that Dougie encapsulated that loss and frustration wonderfully, with only the occasional falter. Yet, in Part 16, there is the Dale Cooper we all missed back at 100%. While it made me grin from ear to ear and feel that wonderful joy and comfort, I feel he should have never been back to 100% after what he has experienced and the true loss of 25 years of his life, especially with the themes the season has seemed to be built around. Maybe we'll get to deal with that next week and I'll be satisfied by both the plot and emotion, but I just needed to vent that this week.
I feel very much the same. Coop is awfully chipper for someone who has lost 25 years of life but I was being generous and putting down to enlightenment from his time in the lodge.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by boske »

mlsstwrt wrote:
boske wrote:
douglasb wrote:Mike's lessened 'power' may simply be due to the the fact that Al Strobel is 78 years old. He's clearly a little frail and combined with the way Lynch has shot the Red Room, he sometimes looks a little diminished.
Yes. Let us not forget this is a fine actor and a gentleman. I wish I look that good when I am 78 if I get there.
My comment wasn't meant as any disrespect to the actor. But if the actor is no longer capable of portraying the force that he was in the original/FWWM then maybe don't put him in at all, rather than create an unintentionally comic (at least to me) effect.
I know you meant no disrespect. I was very glad to have seen him, he was such an iconic part of the series and the movie, so seeing him back in any kind of role sure beats not seeing him at all. He did his best with the material that he had, plain and simple, and let us not forget he had to double-shift for MJA, some of his scenes were clearly meant for LMFAP. Cheers.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by referendum »

It is either that or the three mentioned characters are if not unconnected then completely pointless to the plot. Which in itself is pointless.
regardless of whether they were effectively drawn characters, or the tarantino thing, i don't understand this '' pointless'' thing that people keep repeating about various characters. In this case, the plot needed Bad Coop to hire assassins to kill good Coop, and for them all to fail ( in different ways) so he is obliged in the end to try and do it himself. So... I don't get it. You can argue that pretty much any character is pointless if you boot the part of the plot they appear in. But the part of the plot that C and H appear in is pretty central, Bad Coop vying for survival against good Coop is an important part of the main plot.
So, you can object to how Chantal and Hutch were used or portrayed, but how were they pointless?
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by mlsstwrt »

boske wrote:
mlsstwrt wrote:
boske wrote: Yes. Let us not forget this is a fine actor and a gentleman. I wish I look that good when I am 78 if I get there.
My comment wasn't meant as any disrespect to the actor. But if the actor is no longer capable of portraying the force that he was in the original/FWWM then maybe don't put him in at all, rather than create an unintentionally comic (at least to me) effect.
I know you meant no disrespect. I was very glad to have seen him, he was such an iconic part of the series and the movie, so seeing him back in any kind of role sure beats not seeing him at all. He did his best with the material that he had, plain and simple, and let us not forget he had to double-shift for MJA, some of his scenes were clearly meant for LMFAP. Cheers.
I understand Boske. I disagree (can you believe it, dissent is breaking out among the disappointed!) but totally see where you're coming from. But yeah he's better than that fucking tree that's for sure.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by mlsstwrt »

boske wrote:
mlsstwrt wrote:
boske wrote: Yes. Let us not forget this is a fine actor and a gentleman. I wish I look that good when I am 78 if I get there.
My comment wasn't meant as any disrespect to the actor. But if the actor is no longer capable of portraying the force that he was in the original/FWWM then maybe don't put him in at all, rather than create an unintentionally comic (at least to me) effect.
I know you meant no disrespect. I was very glad to have seen him, he was such an iconic part of the series and the movie, so seeing him back in any kind of role sure beats not seeing him at all. He did his best with the material that he had, plain and simple, and let us not forget he had to double-shift for MJA, some of his scenes were clearly meant for LMFAP. Cheers.
Deleted. Double post.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by boske »

mlsstwrt wrote:
bowisneski wrote:Besides my thank you post a few pages back, I had planned on only reading this thread until the whole show was over because some of the later parts made me appreciate earlier parts more, but Part 16 has left me with a feeling that I want to put out there and I don't have anyone else to talk to this about until a friend gets back from vacation next week and has a chance to watch Part 16.

Part 16 was an unmitigated emotional success for me - I felt the tension as Mr. C and Richard approached the coordinates, dread and slight annoyance filled me as I saw Coop in a coma, Diane opening up touched me and made me feel for this woman who had been replaced, I smiled through the entire Cooper awakening, and the Eddie Vedder song brought tears to my eyes because it seemed like a tight focus on what this season has been about. However, as it stands pre-finale, the more I think about it the more it feels as if it has failed me from a story/character perspective. Despite being only 27, so much of this season that has resonated with me was about loss and the inability to return to comfort or real familiarity from the past, hence the Vedder song connecting with me. I thought that Dougie encapsulated that loss and frustration wonderfully, with only the occasional falter. Yet, in Part 16, there is the Dale Cooper we all missed back at 100%. While it made me grin from ear to ear and feel that wonderful joy and comfort, I feel he should have never been back to 100% after what he has experienced and the true loss of 25 years of his life, especially with the themes the season has seemed to be built around. Maybe we'll get to deal with that next week and I'll be satisfied by both the plot and emotion, but I just needed to vent that this week.
I feel very much the same. Coop is awfully chipper for someone who has lost 25 years of life but I was being generous and putting down to enlightenment from his time in the lodge.
Agreed. I was expecting a more tormented Cooper knowing what has happened since he got trapped in the lodge. But if the point is for us to not expect anything, they have clearly succeeded. At the expense of the story for sure.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by boske »

mlsstwrt wrote:
boske wrote:
mlsstwrt wrote:
My comment wasn't meant as any disrespect to the actor. But if the actor is no longer capable of portraying the force that he was in the original/FWWM then maybe don't put him in at all, rather than create an unintentionally comic (at least to me) effect.
I know you meant no disrespect. I was very glad to have seen him, he was such an iconic part of the series and the movie, so seeing him back in any kind of role sure beats not seeing him at all. He did his best with the material that he had, plain and simple, and let us not forget he had to double-shift for MJA, some of his scenes were clearly meant for LMFAP. Cheers.
I understand Boske. I disagree (can you believe it, dissent is breaking out among the disappointed!) but totally see where you're coming from. But yeah he's better than that fucking tree that's for sure.
And that would be so hilarious, and pale the Return in comparison. :lol:
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Venus »

boske wrote:
mlsstwrt wrote:
boske wrote: I know you meant no disrespect. I was very glad to have seen him, he was such an iconic part of the series and the movie, so seeing him back in any kind of role sure beats not seeing him at all. He did his best with the material that he had, plain and simple, and let us not forget he had to double-shift for MJA, some of his scenes were clearly meant for LMFAP. Cheers.
I understand Boske. I disagree (can you believe it, dissent is breaking out among the disappointed!) but totally see where you're coming from. But yeah he's better than that fucking tree that's for sure.
And that would be so hilarious, and pale the Return in comparison. :lol:
But Bob1's comment about the grumpy caretaker was funny. Sorry, couldn't help myself :wink:

Re Super Cooper - he's obviously completely forgotten about Annie in the 25 years stasis unless she crops up this week. If time had stood still for him then wouldn't it make sense for him to recall her? I guess one thing at a time. Was incredibly odd seeing him declaring he will return to Janey E and Sonny Jim - people he barely knows (still can't get over those names :roll: ).
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by BOB1 »

mlsstwrt wrote:
boske wrote: But if the actor is no longer capable of portraying the force that he was...
Somehow I don't think it is the acting problem. Because it is not the way he looks which creates the problem, rather the other way round - something is wrong with the idea of the character and the implification of this could be the way he looks.
The character is meaningless, he doesn't do anything which would suggest that power... hence there is none.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Rialto »

Metamorphia wrote:
Rialto wrote:With the demise of Chantal and Hutch, I'm left wondering - has Lynch been waiting since 1994 to let us know he's not that keen on Tarantino?

Honestly, what was the point of these two except to carry out acts of pointless violence, bitch about fast food, then get dispatched in an over the top shower of bullets as a result of a banal road rage altercation, unconnected to the main plot (such as it is).

This really is Lynch's Love Actually - a rag bag of incomplete ideas stitched together under a nominally unifying banner.
You don't think they typify an underlying culture of ignorance/violence/hatred prevalent in America (and the world) today? They're only unconnected to the plot if you're totally incapable of reading anything vaguely thematic into what you're watching.
How wude! No, I'm not so completely thick that I've failed to notice I'm being bashed over the head every week with a 2x4 that has 'modern life is shit and the people are vacuous and cruel' burnt into the side.

I'm more like 'Ow, Lynch, stop whacking me with your crudely fashioned theme stick!'

Screenwriting (or any creative writing) 101: be very careful when writing from theme, because that often leads to theme taking precedence over good story or well-crafted characters that feel real.

I wouldn't say never write from theme, but it can and does often lead to one dimensional characters who spout points the writer wants to teach us about, rather than living, breathing beings who grow in the story. And it feels like that's what happened here.

Maybe Lynch fully intended to give us a lecture instead of a story. Good for him. Let him do what he likes. He's free to do so, and I'm free to say he's boring the pants off me.

In my opinion.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by boske »

Venus wrote: Re Super Cooper - he's obviously completely forgotten about Annie in the 25 years stasis unless she crops up this week. If time had stood still for him then wouldn't it make sense for him to recall her? I guess one thing at a time. Was incredibly odd seeing him declaring he will return to Janey E and Sonny Jim - people he barely knows (still can't get over those names :roll: ).
If they manage to somehow sneak her in, I'd forgive them for some of the atrocious stuff in this season. We will find out soon enough and this is still out there:
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Rialto »

Incidentally, anyone remember that episode of The Good Wife where they're up against a judge who makes everyone qualify every single point they make with "In my opinion"...?
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Venus »

Rialto wrote:Incidentally, anyone remember that episode of The Good Wife where they're up against a judge who makes everyone qualify every single point they make with "In my opinion"...?
Oh my gosh yes. I think that is why I use it so much! lol
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