Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

[mlsstwrt]

Sylvia - just bought 'Dead Stars'. Thanks for the recommendation! Have that and Infinite Jest to read, from recommendations in this thread!

[Bookworm]

I'm not personally having a go at you, so please don't think that is the case, but what you posted above is an example of what has so infuriated and disappointed me about this new series. Perhaps I'm old-fashioned, but all I wanted from Lynch and the new series of TP was what made it so good in the first place: characters, settings, music, atmosphere and so on, not some clever-clever self-relexive overarching subtextual theme about delayed gratification and audience expectation [deep breath]. You are of course welcome to your interpretations and honestly, it's cool that you can get enjoyment out of this kind of analysis, but really, I think that by looking this deeply, a lot of people are overthinking and seeing stuff that isn't really there.

Because Lynch has made everything so vague and nebulous, a lot of folks have made TP mean anything they wanted it to mean. I personally hate when any sort of art, be it visual, cinematic, literary or musical, is deliberately designed to be so obscure that it only becomes meaningful is in the minds of the audience. It's not clever, it's not artistic and it's not creative. It's the mark of laziness, lack of inspiration and shoddy craftsmanship. It's having nothing worthwhile to express and instead relying on the audience to somehow imbue it with depth and meaning. With the possible exception of Blue Velvet and Mulholland Drive, Lynch's works have never really expressed a desire to movie beyond novel and stylised sounds and visuals. It's almost as if he doesn't have any idea what he wants to express, so he retreats into abstractions and kookiness. Trouble is, the "Lynchian" style has been long since co-opted and assimilated into the mainstream and has now become something of a cliche. An indication of this is how many times it has been parodied in mainstream culture. SNL did it in 1990, Northern Exposure had an affectionate tribute in its first series, and, of course, The Simpsons did it back in '95 and '97. (Homer, on watching Twin Peaks: "Ha ha ha! Brilliant! I have absolutely no idea what's going on...). Lynch could have disproved this stereotype by, instead of retreating into sophomoric gimmicks and doubling down on the obscure, actually writing compelling characters and stories. Audiences will always interpret the work in whichever way they want to, but that's not an excuse for the creators not bothering to come up with anything of substance.

I think you nailed it on what disappointed me the most in the Return. The quasi complete lack of the beautiful and sometime eerie music of the original run. Instead we just have sounds and more sounds. Music in a movie/show is as important (In My Opinion) as plot and characters. Speaking of characters, there were none. what I mean is that only glimpse of characters are not enough to really invest in them as a viewer and develop them convincingly. While the original run was centered in Twin Peaks, thus having time to develop it's inhabitants, here it was all over the place moving us to South Dakota to Vegas to Twin Peaks to God know where. That why for me, it wasn't Twin Peaks. Like you said the atmosphere, music, mood, settings, nothing was there. Even the scenes taking place in the sherif station didn't felt like they id in the original. Same for the Great Northern. Same for the RR. That strange but, In My Opinion, it didn't work for me this time around. And yes, the Return could have been so much more than what it is. Honestly I would have preferred that Lynch and Frost never got back to it and just leave the original show rest in peace. Yet I fear that In My Opinion the return (and, as a sad retroactive effect, maybe the original run itself) will mostly rest in pieces.

[AnotherBlueRoseCase]

Sylvia - just bought 'Dead Stars'. Thanks for the recommendation! Have that and Infinite Jest to read, from recommendations in this thread!

Just got Dead Stars too. Looks right up my street.

The camp thing would certainly explain a lot about the reaction you and I have had, that weird sense of "They cannot be serious. Surely they can't have lost their touch to this extent." Well, maybe they're not being serious, at all. If at most points an artist deliberately chooses the sniggeringly "bad" option you'll end up with something like The Return.

Nothing wrong with camp in small doses btw, but eighteen hours of almost uninterrupted camp (if that's what it is)? That's hard going.

Would camp get them off the hook for a historically "bad" finale such as 'it was all Audrey's dream'? At what point does a certain volume of camp become plain bad/disastrous?

[Bookworm]

Finally, regarding DougieCoop: we have waited for 26 years for this story to be told. And out of 18 hours they get to spend on it, they spend 14 hours teasing us how Dougie is about to wake up. That to me is excessive and a waste of my time that I'd rather have not been exposed to. I have also been very refrained and reserved in not really speaking my mind of what I honestly think of that attitude. I was expecting a serious and a compelling story, not a mockery of its lead character and its audience. Yes, he/they can do it because they can. It does not mean it is a good or a bright idea, and that I'll go completely quiet about it.

I feel the same as you. Particularly on the attitude part. I won't speak my mind as well but I so very feel you on that.

[mlsstwrt]

I really think you guys should speak your mind. The only people you're going to get flak from probably shouldn't be in the thread.

[The Gazebo]

Even Laura's theme might have ended up sounding very differently today "Angelo, you are in the woods, there is a girl, she is lonely and afraid, and then there is this sound of electricity buzzing and a vortex forming above her head".[/list]

"Oh, Angelo, that is so beautifully fragmented! Now, she slowly moves away, back into the woods, and there is this Tulpa waiting for her, while I show up, in my own dream."

BUT, there's really no reason why this had to take 15 hours to happen, BESIDES just making Coop waking up more satisfying. I mean, of course it's going to be satisfying when you're made to wait that long, but does what happen in between warrant such a gambit?

Because, you know, anything less than fifteen hours would be catering to the instant gratification plebs. And, of course, the show would lose all its hard-fought sense of realism if he somehow recovered earlier to combat Woodsmen, Tulpas, The Experiment and his own doppelgänger, in what might be someone else's dream.

[mlsstwrt]

"Best get working on that seed Mike. Don't be hanging around now!"

"Um.... arggh... gah... ok you go'd it mista".

[Agent Earle]

Hmmm, worth considering when I'll be having my second viewing of MD, I guess. Here's another (rather recent) flick that deals with "the dark side of the dream factory" extensively and feverishly - David Cronenberg's Maps to the Stars. What an excellent piece of work!

Thanks for this rec! I had never heard of this movie from one of my favorite directors. Distancing oneself from the current culture has many benefits, but some definite drawbacks. I will be watching this as soon as my Blu Ray arrives.

No problem, glad to spread the word. You're in for a treat, believe me!

[yaxomoxay]

Because, you know, anything less than fifteen hours would be catering to the instant gratification plebs.

Not nearly enough! I can't wait for the Director's Cut Extended Collectible Anniversay Edition with 15 extra hours... per episode!


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[Agent Earle]

Hmmm, worth considering when I'll be having my second viewing of MD, I guess. Here's another (rather recent) flick that deals with "the dark side of the dream factory" extensively and feverishly - David Cronenberg's Maps to the Stars. What an excellent piece of work!

Thanks for this rec! I had never heard of this movie from one of my favorite directors. Distancing oneself from the current culture has many benefits, but some definite drawbacks. I will be watching this as soon as my Blu Ray arrives.

I must watch it too then!
ExistenZ, Naked Lunch, The Fly, and even the Dead Zone are great !!! Very unsettling movies!


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Not to mention The Shivers, The Brood, Scanners, Videodrome and Dead Ringers! I even like his mainstream thrillers of sorts, A History of Violence and Eastern Promises. But very glad to see someone mention ExistenZ - definitely one of his most underrated gems! What a movie!

[yaxomoxay]

Thanks for this rec! I had never heard of this movie from one of my favorite directors. Distancing oneself from the current culture has many benefits, but some definite drawbacks. I will be watching this as soon as my Blu Ray arrives.

I must watch it too then!
ExistenZ, Naked Lunch, The Fly, and even the Dead Zone are great !!! Very unsettling movies!


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Not to mention The Shivers, The Brood, Scanners, Videodrome and Dead Ringers! I even like his mainstream thrillers of sorts, A History of Violence and Eastern Promises. But very glad to see someone mention ExistenZ - definitely one of his most underrated gems! What a movie!

Oh I forgot about Videodrome! Shame on me!
As for ExistenZ, I love it. Very deep and meaningful.


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[boske]

Even Laura's theme might have ended up sounding very differently today "Angelo, you are in the woods, there is a girl, she is lonely and afraid, and then there is this sound of electricity buzzing and a vortex forming above her head".

"Oh, Angelo, that is so beautifully fragmented! Now, she slowly moves away, back into the woods, and there is this Tulpa waiting for her, while I show up, in my own dream."

BUT, there's really no reason why this had to take 15 hours to happen, BESIDES just making Coop waking up more satisfying. I mean, of course it's going to be satisfying when you're made to wait that long, but does what happen in between warrant such a gambit?

Because, you know, anything less than fifteen hours would be catering to the instant gratification plebs. And, of course, the show would lose all its hard-fought sense of realism if he somehow recovered earlier to combat Woodsmen, Tulpas, The Experiment and his own doppelgänger, in what might be someone else's dream.

Hey, we can play tough here too. How about showing us how Dougie was shaving day after day? They could reuse some footage, I wouldn't mind.

[Rialto]

Because, you know, anything less than fifteen hours would be catering to the instant gratification plebs.

Not nearly enough! I can't wait for the Director's Cut Extended Collectible Anniversay Edition with 15 extra hours... per episode!


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It already exists - it has an extra 15 hours of Dougie slowly eating chocolate cake while a tap drips in the background

[AhmedKhalifa]

Curious to hear if this group would be in favour of S4 ? I'm personally torn.

I just don't think a S4 is in the cards. Lynch isn't exactly prolific, and I think he probably dumped all his ideas into TR. Showtime president David Nevins said that, although another season wasn't out of the question, his talks with L&F always revolved around TR being a limited one-off thing. Time will tell. Personally, I don't really want another season. I haven't exactly fallen in love with the new direction Lynch has taken.

[claaa7]

Thanks for this rec! I had never heard of this movie from one of my favorite directors. Distancing oneself from the current culture has many benefits, but some definite drawbacks. I will be watching this as soon as my Blu Ray arrives.

I must watch it too then!
ExistenZ, Naked Lunch, The Fly, and even the Dead Zone are great !!! Very unsettling movies!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not to mention The Shivers, The Brood, Scanners, Videodrome and Dead Ringers! I even like his mainstream thrillers of sorts, A History of Violence and Eastern Promises. But very glad to see someone mention ExistenZ - definitely one of his most underrated gems! What a movie!

Cronenberg is definitely one of a kind.. i see no one has mentioned "Cosmopolis" yet, that is probably the most underrated film of this decade in my mind, and form a brilliant pair together with "Maps to the Stars"