Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

[mlsstwrt]

I don't know though, even if there is some massive twist and the previous 16 hours were deliberately poor, that in itself is a terrible choice I think.

[AnotherBlueRoseCase]

Masterpiece? Well, they're creaming themselves already because the Washington Post still like it.

Which suggests The Return is no masterpiece. Few TV masterpieces ever needed fans to say week after week "See, it IS good. No, honestly. Look! Here's a review that says so." Or had a profoundly disappointed thread hundreds of pages long.

And this isn't the only thread where reservations have been expressed. We've pretty much left the individual episode threads alone but even there people have frequently stated doubts about the overall quality. That just never happened with the likes of Mad Men.

[yaxomoxay]

Seems like people are under a lot of stress

At any rate, weekly update about my kids's viewing experience. Episode 16.
They obviously loved it. When Coop woke up they both screamed "FINALLY!" at the very same time that the one armed man said it! That was funny but not as with the Roadhouse's scene.
In order, they didn't expect Richard's death. When they stepped off the truck my 11yo said :"Oh, he will try to kill Richard but he will fail," to which my 15yo replied "No way, he would've killed him earlier". Of course they miserably missed it.
Dougie/Cooper, as I said they were both excited about the return of Cooper. At the "I am the FBI" scene celebration happened in my living room. My 11yo loved that Cooper drove fast... and I am glad that he's 5 years from getting his driver license.
Chantal/Hutch, they both loved the scene. When Chantal and Hutch appeared in front of Dougie's house they both feared for the death of someone in the Jonses family. They loved the shooting (of course), and laughed hard both at Wilson's face when the van moves past his car, and at the Mitchum bros exchange. "People are under a lot of stress, Brad" was definitely a hit !!!
Now at the Roadhouse... when the Roadhouse sign appeared my 11yo said: "It can't be over already! Not this one." They both listened to Eddie Vedder's clearly afraid that "Starring Kyle MacLachlan" appeared. When Audrey appeared at the Roadhouse my 15yo cheered... "She made it! Dad I told you she wasn't in a coma or dead! I told you everything was real!" (I was on the verge of laughing but I said "yep"). When Audrey's Dance began my 15yo's smile disappeared and he said in a very feeble voice : "what... what is happening?". My 11yo commented that it reminded him of Audrey's dance in Season 1 (he said "episode 1" but he's wrong on that account). Then we know... Audrey runs and the reflection appears. My 15yo said: "What? WHAT? WHAT HAPPENED? WHAT IS...". He didn't complete the sentence and I laughed quite hard. My 11yo was in complete silence.
As soon as the end titles began my 11yo began... a rant towards David Lynch. "This is unfair. David Lynch can't do that. He can't end this next week, there is too much to do. I HATE when David Lynch does that, it should not be allowed!" (I loved that he said "I hate WHEN DL does that" as if he watched anything else by Lynch other than Dune.
After that they wanted to rewatch Cooper's awakening, the Mitchum Bros exchange, Audrey's snap, and then they wanted to rewatch Audrey's original dance in S1. They begged me to rewatch Episode 16 but it was too late at night so to their disappointment I told to each of them... "Goodbye, my son".


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[boske]

I don't know though, even if there is some massive twist and the previous 16 hours were deliberately poor, that in itself is a terrible choice I think.

The script may get better, that is a possibility, but will it look different? Probably not, and we went over those visual aspects of it ad nauseam.

[yaxomoxay]

Masterpiece? Well, they're creaming themselves already because the Washington Post still like it.

Which suggests The Return is no masterpiece. Few TV masterpieces ever needed fans to say week after week "See, it IS good. No, honestly. Look! Here's a review that says so." Or had a profoundly disappointed thread hundreds of pages long.

And this isn't the only thread where reservations have been expressed. We've pretty much left the individual episode threads alone but even there people have frequently stated doubts about the overall quality. That just never happened with the likes of Mad Men.

Seriously this is probably the silliest post in here. What should fans that like the show hope for? Bad reviews? Most of us waited for 25 years, of course we will post and celebrate if a major national newspaper (the one that actually brought a presidency down) says that the show is better than the other big show of the year. I mean, come on. Has the NYT or the WP ever published an article saying that Mad Men is much better than GOT? I guess not.




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[mlsstwrt]

Masterpiece? Well, they're creaming themselves already because the Washington Post still like it.

Which suggests The Return is no masterpiece. Few TV masterpieces ever needed fans to say week after week "See, it IS good. No, honestly. Look! Here's a review that says so." Or had a profoundly disappointed thread hundreds of pages long.

And this isn't the only thread where reservations have been expressed. We've pretty much left the individual episode threads alone but even there people have frequently stated doubts about the overall quality. That just never happened with the likes of Mad Men.

Seriously this is probably the silliest post in here. What should fans that like the show hope for? Bad reviews? Most of us waited for 25 years, of course we will post and celebrate if a major national newspaper (the one that actually brought a presidency down) says that the show is better than the other big show of the year. I mean, come on. Has the NYT or the WP ever published an article saying that Mad Men is much better than GOT? I guess not.




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Personally, I don't think it's a silly post. Honestly I think when a show is really amazing there is no need to come up with ever increasing hyperbole. You're too into discussing specifics, plot developments, etc. And you wouldn't need some idiot journalist to tell you that the show you think is amazing actually is amazing.

[AnotherBlueRoseCase]

.

[yaxomoxay]

Which suggests The Return is no masterpiece. Few TV masterpieces ever needed fans to say week after week "See, it IS good. No, honestly. Look! Here's a review that says so." Or had a profoundly disappointed thread hundreds of pages long.

And this isn't the only thread where reservations have been expressed. We've pretty much left the individual episode threads alone but even there people have frequently stated doubts about the overall quality. That just never happened with the likes of Mad Men.

Seriously this is probably the silliest post in here. What should fans that like the show hope for? Bad reviews? Most of us waited for 25 years, of course we will post and celebrate if a major national newspaper (the one that actually brought a presidency down) says that the show is better than the other big show of the year. I mean, come on. Has the NYT or the WP ever published an article saying that Mad Men is much better than GOT? I guess not.




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Personally, I don't think it's a silly post. Honestly I think when a show is really amazing there is no need to come up with ever increasing hyperbole. You're too into discussing specifics, plot developments, etc. And you wouldn't need some idiot journalist to tell you that the show you think is amazing actually is amazing.

The show is still going on, and we waited for 25years. In a forum made of fans you don't expect hyperbole? Come on. Go to any GOT forum and you will find gazillions of posts in excitement about a show people genuinely like.
Breaking Bad? Come on, every week it was broadcasted my feed (and reddit) was flooded by excited fans. Is it a bad show?
TWD is now more 50/50, but the first two seasons when it was actually a pretty good show (I still enjoy it, but it's definitely gone downhill) people were flooding social media and forums in excitement. I have seen link to reviews over and over, on the forums/reddits/facebook pages of every show I follow (not many). The only difference is that TP fans had a slightly longer wait between seasons!


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[mlsstwrt]

Honestly yaxomoxay, I don't really have anything to compare the reactions to. TP is the only show I'll actually go on a forum for!

[yaxomoxay]

Which suggests The Return is no masterpiece. Few TV masterpieces ever needed fans to say week after week "See, it IS good. No, honestly. Look! Here's a review that says so." Or had a profoundly disappointed thread hundreds of pages long.

And this isn't the only thread where reservations have been expressed. We've pretty much left the individual episode threads alone but even there people have frequently stated doubts about the overall quality. That just never happened with the likes of Mad Men.

Seriously this is probably the silliest post in here. What should fans that like the show hope for? Bad reviews? Most of us waited for 25 years, of course we will post and celebrate if a major national newspaper (the one that actually brought a presidency down) says that the show is better than the other big show of the year. I mean, come on. Has the NYT or the WP ever published an article saying that Mad Men is much better than GOT? I guess not.




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One unexpected argument in favour of The Return's weakness is the repeated inability of its admirers to read straightforward discussion board posts, something that happens so frequently that we might even call it the Dugpa disease. If these people can't even read and understand a few dozen simple words right before their eyes, can we really trust their opinion of something as complex as this show?

So yeah, thanks for that, yaxomoxay.

Very low post on your part. Your sentence here

"Few TV masterpieces ever needed fans to say week after week "See, it IS good. No, honestly. Look! Here's a review that says so." Or had a profoundly disappointed thread hundreds of pages long."

is so puzzling that is difficult to answer to it. It's so straightforward that is totally wrong. If in the age of social media you believe that, especially after looking and observing the Lost/GOT/GOT/TWD/BB/TD/HOC phenomena, then you're either stuck in the past or you don't really understand what is going on.


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[yaxomoxay]

Honestly yaxomoxay, I don't really have anything to compare the reactions to. TP is the only show I'll actually go on a forum for!

Well, fans are strange individuals And it's not exclusive to TP fans...


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[AnotherBlueRoseCase]

.

[Mr. Strawberry]

Masterpiece? Well, they're creaming themselves already because the Washington Post still like it.

Which suggests The Return is no masterpiece. Few TV masterpieces ever needed fans to say week after week "See, it IS good. No, honestly. Look! Here's a review that says so." Or had a profoundly disappointed thread hundreds of pages long.

And this isn't the only thread where reservations have been expressed. We've pretty much left the individual episode threads alone but even there people have frequently stated doubts about the overall quality. That just never happened with the likes of Mad Men.

Well, that doesn't mean that people weren't profoundly disappointed, though. Perhaps they simply weren't invested enough to actually join a board and talk about it. Twin Peaks is much more personal to its viewers due to their history with it. It's a continuation of something that many fell in love with decades ago, and certain expectations and wishes come with that.

Side note: I was profoundly disappointed with Mad Men and Breaking Bad because as well crafted as they were, I hated the main characters in both -- absolutely despised them as people -- so being able to care about them and stay invested in what was happening became impossible for me. I never discussed this with anyone, and never joined any forums to express it online. Once they were over, I moved on and never thought about them again.

Back on topic, I had these two points:

1) It's not about the numbers (...is it about the numbers?). Otherwise this would be a case of Squeaky Wheel Syndrome. But even if we tried to gauge by posts, we'd then be stacking all of the positive posts from each of the "Part Threads" against all of the negative ones, and then we'd have to do the same thing within this thread, and others. Not sure what the overall value of that would be because it would still be a numbers game, and numbers have no relation to subjectivity.

2) The number of pages within this thread does not amplify the already existing sense of profound disappointment. If anything, this has been a very productive discussion with all sides weighing in, and that is part of the reason for this thread's length. It's also worth noting that the opinions that differ from or oppose those of the disappointed do not subtract from the sense of disappointment either.

With those things said, the weight of the profound disappointment expressed here has been tremendous, and I'm not in any way trying to lessen the grief, frustration, annoyance, or enormous letdown that people here have experienced. But we shouldn't try to see "who's right" or determine "how bad" the show has been based on any of this, because it's all subjective.

I've hated certain things, and loved others, while the very things I took issue with were celebrated, and vice versa. We'll never see a consensus so the best we can each do individually is express exactly how this is hitting us.

Great thread by the way. Healthy exchange has been able to take flight here, and that's been really valuable. Seeing both "sides" discuss what is and isn't working for them has provided much deeper analysis than any single perspective would have.

[Bookworm]

Finally, regarding DougieCoop: we have waited for 26 years for this story to be told. And out of 18 hours they get to spend on it, they spend 14 hours teasing us how Dougie is about to wake up. That to me is excessive and a waste of my time that I'd rather have not been exposed to. I have also been very refrained and reserved in not really speaking my mind of what I honestly think of that attitude. I was expecting a serious and a compelling story, not a mockery of its lead character and its audience. Yes, he/they can do it because they can. It does not mean it is a good or a bright idea, and that I'll go completely quiet about it.

I feel the same as you. Particularly on the attitude part. I won't speak my mind as well but I so very feel you on that.

I really think you guys should speak your mind. The only people you're going to get flak from probably shouldn't be in the thread.

There is a rerun of part 16 commencing shortly on HBO Europe. I think the best way for me to send some sort of a message is to not watch it. Seriously, I saw part 16 just once, and it'll stay like that. I do not feel like watching it at all, and it is not that I am forcing myself not to watch it out of spite or anything like that (as if it would be noticed or would mean that much in the grand scheme of things). No, I seriously do not feel compelled or interested to watch it again. If anyone told me a year ago I'd be like that I'd find it hard to believe.

Again, same for me. It's very sad because if you told me before the Return that I would be uninterested of re watching most of the episodes of season 3 first I would laugh and then explain angrily to you why it would never happen since Twin Peaks has left an indelible mark on my mind. And now look at where I am. That why the blow is so hard for me (and without doubt for any other disappointed fans) I never thought I would be so disappointed in the revival of my favorite TV show ever that I just wouldn't care anymore and be fine with a unique watching.

But I'm dishonest with myself there. When I said I wouldn't believe it if someone told me I would be in that state of mind. Because as soon as I heard the Return was on the making (it was on radio, they hadn't even started to film back then) My first thought was obviously "great!!" and my immediate after thought was "I'm afraid of what the result will be, it's so many years too late and many actors have passed away." You could say I had already a negative a priori and you would be right. Call this intuition or whatever you want to call it. Because despite that feeling I sat in front of my screen for the first two episode, delighted and expectantly. I really tried to just enjoy the ride. I did. But alas, after few episodes, I knew It wouldn't happen. Doubt started to rise its ugly head no later than episode 4. Episode 8 cemented it for me. The was majority of fans praised that episode, calling it art, and genius and TV changer. As for me, by then I had realized that this wasn't my Twin Peaks. I didn't know what it was exactly but not what I was expecting from the return (sorry to have expectations but I can't help) Don't get me wrong, yes nostalgia was a big part of my disappointment, but not just that. I wasn't waiting for a bumbling Cooper to bounce on my screen with a big smile on his face. What I was waiting for on the other hand was for a compelling story, one that would move things forward. One where Coop would have to deal with is time on the Black Lodge and the doing of his evil counterpart. A story about shame, recovering, and coping. A story where Cooper would have to track his doppelganger and try to stop him. One where he would have to slowly understand that hate and anger wouldn't help but acceptance and goodness. One where Cooper finally don't fight and kill his doppel but largely open his arms and welcome him home.

But even without all that I could have enjoyed any other plot. Instead of what we have now. I could have even do with Cooper being killed right in the second episode. I would have been upset but if it served the story and made perfect sense, I would have accepted it. And honestly I would have liked this better than that ridiculous and needless Zombie Cooper. Because be honest here for a minute, how did that plot serve the story? How did a brainless Cooper served the main plot of the Return? To show that he helped people around him? He didn't, it was all coincidence and Lodge doing, mostly. To help Jenny-E having the ride of her life? She was taking advantage of her diminished husband doing so and that he seemed to enjoy it doesn't change that fact. So what did the Zombie Coop arc do for the main plot of the show? The answer In My Opinion, is nothing at all. In fact, aside for the let's kill Cooper parts, it could have been a show on itself. Dougie Zombie Coop is for me the same as invitation to Love was in the original run. It could have been called "Dougie Fantastic adventures in Zombie Land."

So here I am, saddened and angry. Angry at the show and Frost and Lynch. And about speaking my mind on what I think of the former, I won't. It won't change anything and bring nothing to the debate. Only more anger and sadness. And someone his going to educate me on what real art his and about having no expectation and how I'm supposed to watch what was once the only TV show I would bring with me on a desert island.

[yaxomoxay]

See the hypocrisy, yaxomoxay?

I've been taking creepily obsessive attacks from a site thirdstringer for months but not responded in kind because of the personal issues he's confessed to. You have no such issues, I'm sure, so if you swipe at me I'll swipe back.

Now that we're done swiping I suggest we shake virtual hands and agree to disagree on what constitutes a masterpiece. Hardly any of the shows you list would qualify for me. Nevertheless your contributions here have generally been valuable and I look forward to more.

Never said - or implied - that you are an idiot. Far from me.
I just found silly that someone on a forum for fans and by fans is surprised (or disgusted?) that positive articles on a major newspaper are discussed and celebrated while the show is still airing, and more so that somehow that should prove that the show is not good.


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