Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

[mlsstwrt]

Mr Strawberry - agree with almost everything you said but I'm curious about Breaking Bad. The very point was that you were supposed to hate Walt. Just like you were supposed to hate Tony Soprano. I'm sure you get that already. I really liked both shows.

[yaxomoxay]

Mr Strawberry - agree with almost everything you said but I'm curious about Breaking Bad. The very point was that you were supposed to hate Walt. Just like you were supposed to hate Tony Soprano. I'm sure you get that already. I really liked both shows.

Last year I had lunch at the Los Pollos Hermanos where Walt used to sit down
(Restaurant has a different name in real life)


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[mlsstwrt]

Mr Strawberry - agree with almost everything you said but I'm curious about Breaking Bad. The very point was that you were supposed to hate Walt. Just like you were supposed to hate Tony Soprano. I'm sure you get that already. I really liked both shows.

Last year I had lunch at the Los Pollos Hermanos where Walt used to sit down
(Restaurant has a different name in real life)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But it does the same type of food?! I generally don't eat fast food but would have eaten there as you know Gus had such high standards!

[yaxomoxay]

Mr Strawberry - agree with almost everything you said but I'm curious about Breaking Bad. The very point was that you were supposed to hate Walt. Just like you were supposed to hate Tony Soprano. I'm sure you get that already. I really liked both shows.

Last year I had lunch at the Los Pollos Hermanos where Walt used to sit down
(Restaurant has a different name in real life)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But it does the same type of food?! I generally don't eat fast food but would have eaten there as you know Gus had such high standards!

It was underwhelming but a good way to gain something small to remember


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[Gabriel]

Mr Strawberry - agree with almost everything you said but I'm curious about Breaking Bad. The very point was that you were supposed to hate Walt. Just like you were supposed to hate Tony Soprano. I'm sure you get that already. I really liked both shows.

I dunno... it was more complex than that for me. My feelings for Walt drifted between liking him, sympathising with him, understanding him while disagreeing with him, all the way through to disgust and revulsion, yet still caring about him at the bitter end. It's what made the show so intriguing.

I also found Don Draper fascinating.

Perhaps, having a self-destructive streak myself, I find self-destructive characters interesting...

[AnotherBlueRoseCase]

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[mlsstwrt]

Mr Strawberry - agree with almost everything you said but I'm curious about Breaking Bad. The very point was that you were supposed to hate Walt. Just like you were supposed to hate Tony Soprano. I'm sure you get that already. I really liked both shows.

I dunno... it was more complex than that for me. My feelings for Walt drifted between liking him, sympathising with him, understanding him while disagreeing with him, all the way through to disgust and revulsion, yet still caring about him at the bitter end. It's what made the show so intriguing.

I also found Don Draper fascinating.

Perhaps, having a self-destructive streak myself, I find self-destructive characters interesting...

Oh yes, very true. Same with Tony Soprano. I was over simplifying and the characters were complex. But if I had to make a simple judgement I would say there were both awful people. Loved watching them though. I'm watching this trash called Shooter on Netflix at the moment and the main character is good in a very boring, one-dimensional way. Nowhere near as interesting as Walt or Tony.

Can relate to the self destructiveness too!

[boske]

I could have even do with Cooper being killed right in the second episode. I would have been upset but if it served the story and made perfect sense, I would have accepted it. And honestly I would have liked this better than that ridiculous and needless Zombie Cooper. Because be honest here for a minute, how did that plot serve the story? How did a brainless Cooper served the main plot of the Return? To show that he helped people around him? He didn't, it was all coincidence and Lodge doing, mostly. To help Jenny-E having the ride of her life? She was taking advantage of her diminished husband doing so and that he seemed to enjoy it doesn't change that fact. So what did the Zombie Coop arc do for the main plot of the show? The answer In My Opinion, is nothing at all. In fact, aside for the let's kill Cooper parts, it could have been a show on itself. Dougie Zombie Coop is for me the same as invitation to Love was in the original run. It could have been called "Dougie Fantastic adventures in Zombie Land."

We did not have that much Cooper in FWWM and it worked. The story was ok, and we could have also coped here with no Dale at all until part 16 provided the story was any good. But it wasn't, and that bloody and counterproductive teasing with Dougie made it even worse. I had said earlier that we should have had e.g. Chester Desmond (or Sam Stanley, or somebody else sane) as a lead agent investigating cases of disappearing FBI agents slowly unwinding the thread until they run into DoppleCoop and/or find some clues as to what is going on. That may have been somewhat expected but could still be more interesting, suspenseful, and thrilling than what we got here.

Mitchum brothers grew on me. If they had that very idea they could have come up with a Ghostwoord development and/or a casino in TP or near by, why not?

Edit: Yes, Desmond has himself disappeared but could have gotten out in Argentina or wherever when Jeffries did.

[Mr. Strawberry]

A story where Cooper would have to track his doppelganger and try to stop him. One where he would have to slowly understand that hate and anger wouldn't help but acceptance and goodness. One where Cooper finally don't fight and kill his doppel but largely open his arms and welcome him home.

I hear you, and have been suspecting that this may end up being the solution. Unless the Doppelganger really is just an evil being that happens to look like Cooper (please say it ain't so), then it actually is Cooper -- or "another Cooper" if you will -- and killing him could never be the answer.

Also agree that this conflict should have been initiated sooner than Part 17.

[krzhuva]

Which suggests The Return is no masterpiece. Few TV masterpieces ever needed fans to say week after week "See, it IS good. No, honestly. Look! Here's a review that says so." Or had a profoundly disappointed thread hundreds of pages long.

And this isn't the only thread where reservations have been expressed. We've pretty much left the individual episode threads alone but even there people have frequently stated doubts about the overall quality. That just never happened with the likes of Mad Men.

Well, that doesn't mean that people weren't profoundly disappointed, though. Perhaps they simply weren't invested enough to actually join a board and talk about it. Twin Peaks is much more personal to its viewers due to their history with it. It's a continuation of something that many fell in love with decades ago, and certain expectations and wishes come with that.

Irritatingly hard to dispute this, as usual with your posts, but I'll have a go. And please remember that all I'm claiming for now is The Return is no masterpiece -- nothing more.

If you dispute Mad Men as a masterpiece, as I dispute most of yaxomoxay's picks, can we agree on The Sopranos? Leaving aside the existence of this thread, would you agree that high-quality The Sopranos fan sites such as The Chase Lounge -- the Dugpa equivalent for that show -- never had any threads like Dugpa's individual episode threads where so many people disputed the overall quality of the show? Not just individual bits like Tony's coma dream (hmmmm...) but calling into question the entire show?

And then we come to this thread. Did you ever see such a thing for The Sopranos, say around series 5 or 6, at which point as you suggest fans had been onboard for so long that a Profoundly Disappointed thread about the overall quality was even possible?

Now look at the other Dugpa threads and how many of the OPs and replies are criticising or at least questioning the show. I don't know if you were around for detailed discussions of The Sopranos, but the % of critical or questioning threads was miniscule compared to this.

NB there's no claim here that any of this means The Return's an artistic failure. Simply that contenders for TV greatest drama, as many fans are claiming for The Return, simply do not get responses like this. What kind of dummy ever claimed The Sopranos was an artistic failure?

The Sopranos is a sure masterpiece, but it is also a much less challenging show than The Return, where cinematic language itself constantly and very consciously rebels against conventional modes of viewing and goes out of its way to rub us wrong. If anything, this is an idiosyncratic masterpiece that wallows in its own abnormalities and cannot be compared to the shows that work like clockwork, hit all the right notes, etc. It’s not trolling, either, but a strange and wonderful experience, first and foremost. Another thing that it is not is Total Camp. I’m actually surprised that Lynch’s trademark mix of kitsch and deeply felt sincerity all of a sudden seems so baffling to his more or less seasoned viewers.

[Venus]

A story where Cooper would have to track his doppelganger and try to stop him. One where he would have to slowly understand that hate and anger wouldn't help but acceptance and goodness. One where Cooper finally don't fight and kill his doppel but largely open his arms and welcome him home.

I hear you, and have been suspecting that this may end up being the solution. Unless the Doppelganger really is just an evil being that happens to look like Cooper (please say it ain't so), then it actually is Cooper -- or "another Cooper" if you will -- and killing him could never be the answer.

Also agree that this conflict should have been initiated sooner than Part 17.

So in effect it'll be a fight like this (minus the superman costume and Clark Kent glasses).

[Venus]

Masterpiece? Well, they're creaming themselves already because the Washington Post still like it.

Which suggests The Return is no masterpiece. Few TV masterpieces ever needed fans to say week after week "See, it IS good. No, honestly. Look! Here's a review that says so." Or had a profoundly disappointed thread hundreds of pages long.

And this isn't the only thread where reservations have been expressed. We've pretty much left the individual episode threads alone but even there people have frequently stated doubts about the overall quality. That just never happened with the likes of Mad Men.

Yes on the TPTR Gets Glowing Review in the Washington Post thread on this board those who are disappointed have been given a right slagging off by 'Wonderful & Strange' as she/he calls themselves. The narrow minded viewpoint (and completely incorrect viewpoint) of some just staggers me. They just make themselves look like right XXXXXX (fill in the blanks). Could not even be bothered to comment on it. I am amazed this is still happening and such narrow minded viewpoints are still being expressed on here. Haven't they run out of energy for it? It's so boring and old now.

[AnotherBlueRoseCase]

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[Mr. Reindeer]

I wouldn't call the new season a masterpiece. But I also don't think you can compare the online response to The Sopranos to what's happening on this board. When that show ended 11 years ago, the ability to use the Internet on smartphones was very limited, expensive and slow. Now, I can type a post at work, on the subway, while walking, whereas in 2006 my theoretical board-browsing time probably was confined to a short period at night. I'm sure I personally am far more prolific than I was then.

Also, a reason I personally spend so much time on this board despite not doing so for other shows I loved such as Mad Men and Breaking Bad is that I had friends who watched those shows, and I discussed them at work and over drinks. Here, outside of my girlfriend watching with me some weeks, this place is my sole outlet for discussion!

[AnotherBlueRoseCase]

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