Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

[Aqwell]

I just didn't find him nearly as mysterious in the Euro material as later on in the series and FWWM, or now - running around with a gun and giving the cops a long unbroken expository speech. It was a compromise between Lynch's sense of dream logic and an urgent need to wrap the plot up in 10 minutes.

Having seen the European version, for once I agree with Needleman. And thank god it's not canonical, otherwise Bob would have been some random serial killer too easily stopped.

[David Locke]

Remember when I wrote that a lot of people who are super into TR tend to elevate it above the original and Needleman said I committed some awful crime by supposedly making a generalisation

That is absolutely not what I said and a massive misread of my very explicit post re: the European pilot. But whatever powers your victim complex.

Oh damn, I'm sorry. It seems I had you confused with that super troll-y poster named Watchlar. Apologies for the mix-up; certainly a low blow to compare anybody to that person. For the record, I think you're one of the Good Guys, so to speak, and if your exuberance for TR and against many posts in this thread ever grates on me, it's probably partly because I'm similarly passionate about what I like and I think I recognize it in you. Almost a Lynchian theme, c'est pas?


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[N. Needleman]

Remember when I wrote that a lot of people who are super into TR tend to elevate it above the original and Needleman said I committed some awful crime by supposedly making a generalisation

That is absolutely not what I said and a massive misread of my very explicit post re: the European pilot. But whatever powers your victim complex.

Oh damn, I'm sorry. It seems I had you confused with that super troll-y poster named Watchlar. Apologies for the mix-up; certainly a low blow to compare anybody to that person. For the record, I think you're one of the Good Guys, so to speak, and if your exuberance for TR and against many posts in this thread ever grates on me, it's probably partly because I'm similarly passionate about what I like and I think I recognize it in you. Almost a Lynchian theme, c'est pas?

watchLAR and I do not agree on much, but to be clear I have said before I do agree with him that that is a gross generalization which upset me at the time. And I certainly don't elevate this show above the original - I think they are all one.

That said, I appreciate the thought even if I just sniped at you about the VFX. But what I was trying to say is no, I am not making fun of the original series nor would I. I am saying that the Euro ending is not the greatest example of MIKE as a mysterious character IMO when he was literally thrown in as a very literal-minded deus ex machina.

[David Locke]

That is absolutely not what I said and a massive misread of my very explicit post re: the European pilot. But whatever powers your victim complex.

Oh damn, I'm sorry. It seems I had you confused with that super troll-y poster named Watchlar. Apologies for the mix-up; certainly a low blow to compare anybody to that person. For the record, I think you're one of the Good Guys, so to speak, and if your exuberance for TR and against many posts in this thread ever grates on me, it's probably partly because I'm similarly passionate about what I like and I think I recognize it in you. Almost a Lynchian theme, c'est pas?

watchLAR and I do not agree on much, but to be clear I have said before I do agree with him that that is a gross generalization which upset me at the time. And I certainly don't elevate this show above the original - I think they are all one.

That said, I appreciate the thought even if I just sniped at you about the VFX. But what I was trying to say is, no, I am not making fun of the original series nor would I. I am saying that the Euro ending is not the greatest example of MIKE as a character IMO when he was literally thrown in as a very literal-minded deus ex machina.

Yeah, I hear you. Sorry that it upset you, but I didn't mean it as a personal dig at anyone; it was a broad statement based on observation, and of course if you love TR and the original run such a statement will rub the wrong way, but it's an especially subjective argument, not to mention impossible to really provide "evidence" of, so let's just drop it and focus on less... ambitious claims.

You know, as much fiery rhetoric as I've spouted off in this thread, I think that after the finale has aired things will cool down and, not being in the heat of the moment anymore, a lot of people who both love and hate TR will probably have a laugh at how intense things got in here sometimes. It's a cliche but it's really not a bad thing to remember it's just a TV show, spending more time outdoors and with actual other people is vital, and there are far bigger problems in the world than whether someone likes or dislikes TR


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[AhmedKhalifa]

Remember when I wrote that a lot of people who are super into TR tend to elevate it above the original and Needleman said I committed some awful crime by supposedly making a generalisation

Just sayin'


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I do find it telling that certain contributors to this thread foam at the mouth at almost any criticism of TR, but also jump at anyone who praises the original series or says it's superior to TR, highlighting this flaw and that. As already said, it seems some of them have highly ambivalent feelings toward the original TP, probably because they don't consider it to be "pure Lynch".

[AhmedKhalifa]

I just didn't find him nearly as mysterious in the Euro material as later on in the series and FWWM, or now - running around with a gun and giving the cops a long unbroken expository speech. It was a compromise between Lynch's sense of dream logic and an urgent need to wrap the plot up in 10 minutes.

Having seen the European version, for once I agree with Needleman. And thank god it's not canonical, otherwise Bob would have been some random serial killer too easily stopped.

I didn't view the European ending to be this simple. Although OAM did shoot Bob, the dialogue, the sound design, the fluttering candles, and Mike's apparent death after, made everything seem to be far from over and far from the natural or the mundane. Add to that the Red Room sequence that followed, and you get something far removed from indicating Bob to be something as simple as a serial killer. From my research, I think the only reason Lynch and co. consider it non-canonical was that it revealed too much too early, especially about the letters under the fingernails and the identity of Bob.

[mtwentz]

I just didn't find him nearly as mysterious in the Euro material as later on in the series and FWWM, or now - running around with a gun and giving the cops a long unbroken expository speech. It was a compromise between Lynch's sense of dream logic and an urgent need to wrap the plot up in 10 minutes.

Having seen the European version, for once I agree with Needleman. And thank god it's not canonical, otherwise Bob would have been some random serial killer too easily stopped.

I didn't view the European ending to be this simple. Although OAM did shoot Bob, the dialogue, the sound design, the fluttering candles, and Mike's apparent death after, made everything seem to be far from over and far from the natural or the mundane. Add to that the Red Room sequence that followed, and you get something far removed from indicating Bob to be something as simple as a serial killer. From my research, I think the only reason Lynch and co. consider it non-canonical was that it revealed too much too early, especially about the letters under the fingernails and the identity of Bob.

ahhh, now something you and I can agree on. I love that European ending. IMHO, there was at least one other key clue other than what you mention (given during Mike's monologue to Coop and Harry) that indicated Bob may not have been human. Can you guess what I am referring to?

[AhmedKhalifa]

Having seen the European version, for once I agree with Needleman. And thank god it's not canonical, otherwise Bob would have been some random serial killer too easily stopped.

I didn't view the European ending to be this simple. Although OAM did shoot Bob, the dialogue, the sound design, the fluttering candles, and Mike's apparent death after, made everything seem to be far from over and far from the natural or the mundane. Add to that the Red Room sequence that followed, and you get something far removed from indicating Bob to be something as simple as a serial killer. From my research, I think the only reason Lynch and co. consider it non-canonical was that it revealed too much too early, especially about the letters under the fingernails and the identity of Bob.

ahhh, now something you and I can agree on. I love that European ending. IMHO, there was at least one other key clue other than what you mention (given during Mike's monologue to Coop and Harry) that indicated Bob may not have been human. Can you guess what I am referring to?

The arm? And let's not forget that in Mike's monologue comes the first mention of THE convenience store.

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[Aqwell]

I didn't view the European ending to be this simple.

I did. When I rented it in the early 90's, the guy from the video store warned me "It's like Lynch sniffed coke while shooting the ending". I think he was right. For The Return I don't know how much of the budget was used in recreational drugs but surely quite a bit.

there was at least one other key clue other than what you mention (given during Mike's monologue to Coop and Harry) that indicated Bob may not have been human.

Mike shot him, what else could he be, other than human? Certainly not a spirit.

[AhmedKhalifa]

I didn't view the European ending to be this simple.

I did. When I rented it in the early 90's, the guy from the video store warned me "It's like Lynch sniffed coke while shooting the ending". I think he was right. For The Return I don't know how much of the budget was used in recreational drugs but surely quite a bit.

there was at least one other key clue other than what you mention (given during Mike's monologue to Coop and Harry) that indicated Bob may not have been human.

Mike shot him, what else could he be, other than human? Certainly not a spirit.

Well, doppelCoop was shot in part 8, and look what happened

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[mtwentz]

I didn't view the European ending to be this simple. Although OAM did shoot Bob, the dialogue, the sound design, the fluttering candles, and Mike's apparent death after, made everything seem to be far from over and far from the natural or the mundane. Add to that the Red Room sequence that followed, and you get something far removed from indicating Bob to be something as simple as a serial killer. From my research, I think the only reason Lynch and co. consider it non-canonical was that it revealed too much too early, especially about the letters under the fingernails and the identity of Bob.

ahhh, now something you and I can agree on. I love that European ending. IMHO, there was at least one other key clue other than what you mention (given during Mike's monologue to Coop and Harry) that indicated Bob may not have been human. Can you guess what I am referring to?

The arm? And let's not forget that in Mike's monologue comes the first mention of THE convenience store.

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Mike says BOB likes to hang out among the injured of "the species". This is an odd thing to say about fellow humans. To me, this is a strong indication that either Mike or BOB or both are NOT human.

[AhmedKhalifa]

ahhh, now something you and I can agree on. I love that European ending. IMHO, there was at least one other key clue other than what you mention (given during Mike's monologue to Coop and Harry) that indicated Bob may not have been human. Can you guess what I am referring to?

The arm? And let's not forget that in Mike's monologue comes the first mention of THE convenience store.

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Mike says BOB likes to hang out among the injured of "the species". This is an odd thing to say about fellow humans. To me, this is a strong indication that either Mike or BOB or both are NOT human.

Right. That was a very disturbing line and did hint that something more than natural might be involved.

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[douglasb]

The Otis and Buella scene really seemed like the start of something, didn't it

Of what?

Of seeing into Boop's milieu and finding out his motivations and the life he's been leading for 25 years.

[mtwentz]

The Otis and Buella scene really seemed like the start of something, didn't it? And it really wasn't.

In my opinion, that scene stands on its own, much like the 'sick girl in the car' scene- the payoff was right there. I never for a moment thought we were going back to Buella's place (though that still might happen, but I doubt it).

Edit: The Otis and Buella scene served a narrative purpose- it introduced us to Mr. C, Ray and Darya. It also showed us the type of people Mr. C was hanging out with- for lack of a better term, 'lowlife's'. From that very first Mr. C scene it's quite clear he is living the 'anti-Cooper' life.

But beyond the narrative purpose for The Return, I think it would stand alone as an excellent Lynch short film. A very visually gripping vision of 'white trash' America.

[Dez]

peru.jpg (96.27 KiB) Viewed 8021 times

My third, and probably final contribution to the Tulpa board. Just to signify my development arc from enthusiastic to apologetic to severely pissed-off.