Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

[boske]

I've been listening to Julee Cruise's songs all morning now, starting with "Floating into the Night" and will then go into "The Voice of Love". You know, Julee is right. The played ZZ Top (which I do like) without them even being there, they played Lissie (sp?), and that freakin' Simone band twice, and all of a sudden they do not have a few minutes for Julee, that's a shame. And a certain moron left a comment at that link you posted, that nobody wants to see her lip-sync (like the other bands were playing live?!), and that she (Julee) has mental issues?! Shame on them!

But isn't it more about finding the proper placement for Julee's songs in the show? It just wouldn't have been right for her music to have returned before the very end, and the finale has the pressure of time. I thought it was done very beautifully and tastefully myself. I'm sorry to read Julee's upset.

Had they wanted, they would have made it. I mean, did we really need to see those three cowboys and a deep-fried gun?

Did anybody else think for a second that the waitress serving at Judy's was going to be Annie?

I simply thought he was looking for Diane again. It was 3:45 am at that moment for me, and my brain simply wanted to go back to sleep

[nimeoa]

There comes a point when "leaving it up to interpretation" simply does become lazy writing. Especially when you have so many plot threads and characters just tossed to the wayside. There's nothing clever about what we got here. He had no intention of clearing up any of the sub plots, and clearly no intention of having any true meaning to the end. Season 3 has been nothing more than a series a of scenes that come from no where and lead to nothing, but are praised because they truly have so little to them that people can just make up whatever they want them to be. It's a cop out.

[mtwentz]

Fair enough, but given how careful and frustratingly obtuse the actor was when wording anything in regards to the new show (the same goes for everybody else on the production side), it just seems EXTREMELY odd he'd be so bold to make such a public claim about such massively important plot point without having any hard knowledge of the matter. Ah well, who the hell knows.

Yeah, I wish I could say for sure what Kyle knew or didn't know. And for the record, I am also disappointed Annie wasn't really addressed in the show. I have very mixed feelings at this point. I think the last two hours were brilliant, but they did not give me the emotional homecoming and closure a big part of me was hoping for.

This absolutely sucks. They had 25+ years to bring closure to it and chose to ignore it instead. Regarding Kyle, we need to see the original script, honestly. Who knows what it had.

Yeah, the closure part, that sucks from a fan standpoint. The only conclusion I can come to is that Lynch and Frost hated the Annie character and wanted to mention her as little as possible.

It is what it is...

P.S.- For the record, I think Audrey got screwed just as bad as Annie

[boske]

Might I also remind you (and anyone else caring enough as to be reading this forum) that the Annie thing was thoroughly - what retrospectively definitely looks like - BOTCHED by Frost's Secret History book as well. I guess now's finally a safe time to say those altered facts in regards to the character's background that called into question her very existence (and so much more of what was established as pre-S 3 canon) and many of us were hoping (against hope?) would get some kind of meaningful payoff in the new series were, in the cold light of day, nothing more than big fat RETCONS, born out of disinterest, irresponsibility, carelessness, laziness, sloppiness or God only knows what else.
For the record, I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone who loved the book and/or The Return (I agree with mtwentz there truly would be no point in bickering over it now, if there ever was), I'm just expressing my own monumental disappointment things have turned out the way that they did.

Yeah, I liked the book and am disappointed in Frost now too. I still have The Final Dossier preordered, I still do not feel like cancelling that order out (yup, I am sucker and a dupe, I suppose), what good can that book now give or tell?

[Bookworm]

Kyle MacLachlan wasn't lying when he answered someone on Tweeter a year back. Someone asked "Will poop flow" and he answered "Poop will flow"

Yes, indeed, poop flew. Right in your face and all other our screen.

The sad thing is I'm not sure I will be able to watch the original run in the same light now. I think it has been tainted for me. And congratulation to Lynch and Frost, they surpassed Lost's final.

I can't believe Lynch did exactly what I feared he would do, Green Glove Dude finishing Mr.C after Lucy (no but seriously, Lucy??) shot him. This is atrocious and so lame and I'm so angry right now. And then episode 18 rolled on and the last sparkle of hope I may have left shattered. I regret more than I could tell to have wasted my time on that shit show. Lynch spat to the face of Twin Peaks fans and then rubbed it on. I'll never watch anything by him for now on. I even plan to get rid of all my Twin Peaks DVD, Blue Ray collector, FWWM collector and books. Everything either in the trashcan or sold away. I'm not even that rabid, just sad and heartbroken. I was so disappointed again and againby everything movie and TV since long (since mid 2000's to be precise) but to be let down by David Lynch, and in such a manner. To be honest my TV set is manifesting signs of fatigue and at this point I seriously consider not replacing it.

But I have to accept how things are and just move on. I'm glad fans had a blast with that final. I'm really are. They have something to debate and talk about for the next 25 years. Hours and hours of analyzes and meticulous dissection of 18 hours of Twin Peaks. As for me, I'm going to stick to books. They never disappointed me at least.

[boske]

Yeah, I wish I could say for sure what Kyle knew or didn't know. And for the record, I am also disappointed Annie wasn't really addressed in the show. I have very mixed feelings at this point. I think the last two hours were brilliant, but they did not give me the emotional homecoming and closure a big part of me was hoping for.

This absolutely sucks. They had 25+ years to bring closure to it and chose to ignore it instead. Regarding Kyle, we need to see the original script, honestly. Who knows what it had.

Yeah, the closure part, that sucks from a fan standpoint. The only conclusion I can come to is that Lynch and Frost hated the Annie character and wanted to mention her as little as possible.

It is what it is...

P.S.- For the record, I think Audrey got screwed just as bad as Annie

Frost will go on a book tour this fall, will he not? Time to prepare some tough questions for him!

[mtwentz]

Kyle MacLachlan wasn't lying when he answered someone on Tweeter a year back. Someone asked "Will poop flow" and he answered "Poop will flow"

Yes, indeed, poop flew. Right in your face and all other our screen.

The sad thing is I'm not sure I will be able to watch the original run in the same light now. I think it has been tainted for me. And congratulation to Lynch and Frost, they surpassed Lost's final.

I can't believe Lynch did exactly what I feared he would do, Green Glove Dude finishing Mr.C after Lucy (no but seriously, Lucy??) shot him. This is atrocious and so lame and I'm so angry right now. And then episode 18 rolled on and the last sparkle of hope I may have left shattered. I regret more than I could tell to have wasted my time on that shit show. Lynch spat to the face of Twin Peaks fans and then rubbed it on. I'll never watch anything by him for now on. I even plan to get rid of all my Twin Peaks DVD, Blue Ray collector, FWWM collector and books. Everything either in the trashcan or sold away. I'm not even that rabid, just sad and heartbroken. I was so disappointed again and againby everything movie and TV since long (since mid 2000's to be precise) but to be let down by David Lynch, and in such a manner. To be honest my TV set is manifesting signs of fatigue and at this point I seriously consider not replacing it.

But I have to accept how things are and just move on. I'm glad fans had a blast with that final. I'm really are. They have something to debate and talk about for the next 25 years. Hours and hours of analyzes and meticulous dissection of 18 hours of Twin Peaks. As for me, I'm going to stick to books. They never disappointed me at least.

Books? Who reads books

[mtwentz]

This absolutely sucks. They had 25+ years to bring closure to it and chose to ignore it instead. Regarding Kyle, we need to see the original script, honestly. Who knows what it had.

Yeah, the closure part, that sucks from a fan standpoint. The only conclusion I can come to is that Lynch and Frost hated the Annie character and wanted to mention her as little as possible.

It is what it is...

P.S.- For the record, I think Audrey got screwed just as bad as Annie

Frost will go on a book tour this fall, will he not? Time to prepare some tough questions for him!

Yeah, didn't he say all will be explained?

But I think if you take my interpretation- all of Twin Peaks world is now best seen through the prism as one large dream by an unknown dreamer, Annie doesn't matter anymore (nor does anyone else, frankly).

In dreams, characters come and go out of existence.

[claaa7]

Albeit, Green Glove Man and Bouncing-Ball BOB was possibly the worst extended sequence of the entire TP run (especially the worst "serious" sequence)...

Oh...I don't know that it was "serious"

amen.. i don't think there's any two ways about it. it was DEFINITELY the worst extended sequence of the entire TP universe. how in the fuck all could Lynch and Frost come up with that absolute garbage?

[mtwentz]

Here are the major clues that indicated everything in Twin Peaks is a dream:

One Armed Man: 'Is it future, or is it past?'

Gordon Cole having a vision of Laura.

Gordon Cole's Monica Belluci dream

Phillip Jeffries, 'We live inside a dream'.

Cooper opening the boiler room door with his old room key.

I'm sure there are many other points along the way where indications were given that it was all a dream.

[boske]

Kyle MacLachlan wasn't lying when he answered someone on Tweeter a year back. Someone asked "Will poop flow" and he answered "Poop will flow"

Yes, indeed, poop flew. Right in your face and all other our screen.

The sad thing is I'm not sure I will be able to watch the original run in the same light now. I think it has been tainted for me. And congratulation to Lynch and Frost, they surpassed Lost's final.

I can't believe Lynch did exactly what I feared he would do, Green Glove Dude finishing Mr.C after Lucy (no but seriously, Lucy??) shot him. This is atrocious and so lame and I'm so angry right now. And then episode 18 rolled on and the last sparkle of hope I may have left shattered. I regret more than I could tell to have wasted my time on that shit show. Lynch spat to the face of Twin Peaks fans and then rubbed it on. I'll never watch anything by him for now on. I even plan to get rid of all my Twin Peaks DVD, Blue Ray collector, FWWM collector and books. Everything either in the trashcan or sold away. I'm not even that rabid, just sad and heartbroken. I was so disappointed again and againby everything movie and TV since long (since mid 2000's to be precise) but to be let down by David Lynch, and in such a manner. To be honest my TV set is manifesting signs of fatigue and at this point I seriously consider not replacing it.

But I have to accept how things are and just move on. I'm glad fans had a blast with that final. I'm really are. They have something to debate and talk about for the next 25 years. Hours and hours of analyzes and meticulous dissection of 18 hours of Twin Peaks. As for me, I'm going to stick to books. They never disappointed me at least.

I kept harping how I wanted to finally get those Mr C puke analysis results back, so we can see what's in 'em. The trick's on us, this was the very garmonbozia spewing from the T.V. screen.

I would not toss out these old DVDs, books, and music. I just listened to both Julee Cruise albums this morning (well the two that are TP-themed), and they have not sounded this good in years. Once you watch the original now, it will even look better than before. That I think is how one should approach it, I know I will.

[waferwhitemilk]

I haven't even watched the finale yet, just the first part of part 17 before work this morning. Started off with some really wooden explanatoring again by Lynch with Tammy looking at him like some sort of swan, i tried to like her but she can't even sit in a believable way it seems, then some more cgi vortexes n stuff, greenglove kid vs cgi ball bob ok yeah, but just one small thing i wanted to take out as an example of how lazy and sucky this all was imo: Lucy shooting mr C. Now i've always understood that the difference between a quality show and a stupid gag show is that actions in a quality show are characterdriven, the action flows naturally out of the character, whereas in stupid gagshows they just have any action performed by any character as long as they think they can get some cheap laughs out of it, regardless if the action makes sense for the character performing or not. Sort of like the difference between The Simpsons and Family Guy for example. So for me Lucy having a gun and shooting mr. C falls definitely in the last category. They just let her shoot him because haha isn't that funny Lucy shooting the evil protagonist loooooooool. In no way does that action make sense considering lucy's character or the story though, in fact it diminishes both for a stupid joke. And that's the difference between quality and non-qual-ity. The only genius in this is how Lynch bamboozled people into getting this all made and shown on television, and for that i take my hat off to him.

[Agent Earle]

Kyle MacLachlan wasn't lying when he answered someone on Tweeter a year back. Someone asked "Will poop flow" and he answered "Poop will flow"

Yes, indeed, poop flew. Right in your face and all other our screen.

The sad thing is I'm not sure I will be able to watch the original run in the same light now. I think it has been tainted for me. And congratulation to Lynch and Frost, they surpassed Lost's final.

I can't believe Lynch did exactly what I feared he would do, Green Glove Dude finishing Mr.C after Lucy (no but seriously, Lucy??) shot him. This is atrocious and so lame and I'm so angry right now. And then episode 18 rolled on and the last sparkle of hope I may have left shattered. I regret more than I could tell to have wasted my time on that shit show. Lynch spat to the face of Twin Peaks fans and then rubbed it on. I'll never watch anything by him for now on. I even plan to get rid of all my Twin Peaks DVD, Blue Ray collector, FWWM collector and books. Everything either in the trashcan or sold away. I'm not even that rabid, just sad and heartbroken. I was so disappointed again and againby everything movie and TV since long (since mid 2000's to be precise) but to be let down by David Lynch, and in such a manner. To be honest my TV set is manifesting signs of fatigue and at this point I seriously consider not replacing it.

But I have to accept how things are and just move on. I'm glad fans had a blast with that final. I'm really are. They have something to debate and talk about for the next 25 years. Hours and hours of analyzes and meticulous dissection of 18 hours of Twin Peaks. As for me, I'm going to stick to books. They never disappointed me at least.

The only thing I want to correct in your post is that MacLachlan (and the Twitter user he responded to) used the term "POO", ie. without final -p.

[boske]

Here are the major clues that indicated everything in Twin Peaks is a dream:

One Armed Man: 'Is it future, or is it past?'

Gordon Cole having a vision of Laura.

Gordon Cole's Monica Belluci dream

Phillip Jeffries, 'We live inside a dream'.

Cooper opening the boiler room door with his old room key.

I'm sure there are many other points along the way where indications were given that it was all a dream.

Is it future or is it past I think referred to something different. One normally thinks time is linear, but what if it were circular instead. I mean, we have four seasons that keep repeating. In the original FWWM scene, Coop was asked that question twice. He still did not remember anything seemingly, but he still did ask LMFAP "where is the ring", as two scenes were identical except that one had the ring and the other did not. So that to me seemed like a scenario where one "out of time" looked at time as another dimension, as if a cross-section of a 4D world. So all these different timelines each then representing a single world (a 3D cross-section), that Cooper could jump from and to. Which is what TSHOTP may have alluded to, and the ending of part 18.

[The Gazebo]

I'm glad you enjoyed a fair bit of it The Gazebo. I did too, but am still trying to wrap my head around it.

There is a part of me that just loves it in its own right. If I have to be honest, there is that part of me that wanted some resolution to certain storylines-Audrey, Red, Ben/Beverly, etc. And we got none of that.

Thanks - to me it felt more like the groundwork for a season 4 than a finale in its own right, but if this is the end, I hope smarter people than me can provide some possible readings which I'll buy into. That's part of the ever-frustrating dichotomy of shows like this: The possibilities for endless speculation vs our human need to understand things. Even the cavemen wanted to understand why there were earthquakes and volcano eruptions (the wrath of gods/spirits) rather than ascribing some deep mystery to it.

All in all, for me, the glass has never been completely full, nor completely empty. Lots of great scenes, but I struggled to buy into the expanded mythology. The simple reason I'm lukewarm to a season 4 is the obvious implications of episode 18 - too much woo-woo for me to connect with it, unless they can find a clever way to make it more relatable on a human level, as opposed to upping the sci-fi element of it.

Looking back, the few who popped into the episode threads now and then and told us to stop analyzing everything were probably right. 90% of us look a bit silly with the endless speculation about details. Of course, when one then is told 'Gotcha' in the final episode, a lot of people try to put a brave face on and say 'I knew all along this was going to happen'. I'll gladly admit that I was fooled