Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

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krishnanspace
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby krishnanspace » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:45 am

How can they just end it like this????We just got our Cooper back and he starts being intimate with Diane.What about Annie?Audrey? or any other character?Why did Gordon see Laura?Who owns the glass box????If this wasnt the last episode I would not have had problems liking the episode but.....
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Wally Brando
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Wally Brando » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:45 am

Personally, I loved episode 18, probably more than any other part of The Return. If that's all there is, I'm ok with that.

Having said that...

Green Glove - bring back Little Nicky and the Pine Weasel, all is forgiven. Was hoping he'd take a stray bullet whilst stopping Chad, absolutely beggars belief that such a ridiculous character can appear right at the end and have what should've been the most significant battle of the entire series.

Annie - or rather the lack thereof. Not cool man, not cool.

Absolutely fine with not getting any closure on the hundred or so other plotlines, it should always have been about Laura, but you can certainly make a case for the final 90 mins rendering most of parts 1-15 redundant. You could ask why they didn't get to that ending half a dozen episodes earlier, rather than spending so much time on those other plots that would never go anywhere, but I suspect the answer is they've no more idea what to do next than anyone else.

One final thought, apologies if it's already been discussed, but is Dougie Coop the manifestation of Lynch's contempt for the 'traditional' Twin Peaks fanatic? He's created a character who (it could be argued) is essentially a simpleton obsessed with coffee and cherry pie. Ous this what Lynch thinks of the people that value that aspect of Twin Peaks above the more 'spiritual' side of the show?
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby luridedith » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:55 am

Gone from mild to profoundly disappointed. Honestly feel pretty embarrassed to be a Lynch fan right now. And I say this as someone who counts Inland Empire as one of their favorite film experiences ever and has defended this show since the beginning. Part 17-18 were far worse than Part 12 ever was.

I don't mind the "its all a dream from a disturbed person" kind of plotline, its one of the best, most heartbreaking aspects of both Mulholland Drive and Inland Empire. But they are tragedies based around the illusion of showbiz, it fits on so many levels. Having everything in Twin Peaks simply be the delusion of Cooper (Richard?, which is what the finale implied) is just so uncreative and cliche for Lynch at this point. Mulholland Drive was nearly 17 years ago. It just doesn't have the same impact.

I'm just cringing thinking about these final scenes. So many lost chances and time wasted. The awful Cole plot dump scene "explaining" Judy. The entire cast standing around watching the new British guy (who has had one scene of character development) beat the crap out of a CGI ball of Frank Silva's face. Who was the anonymous billionaire who funded the box? Why did Evil Coop spend 18 episodes looking for coordinates to end up at the Sheriff's station? Wtf was up with Sarah in the end or the New Mexico girl? What was the point of Audrey, Becky, Red, etc.? Why bring back the lost Renault brother and do nothing with him? Why bring Candy and the Mitchum brothers to Twin Peaks and do nothing with them? Where is Annie, Donna, Leo etc (one line would sufficed)? How did this all really make it to script to casting to location scouting to filming?
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WhyLynchWhy
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby WhyLynchWhy » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:56 am

I challenge all of you to put forward a season of any TV show ever which you consider to be worse than what we just watched so I can check it out and perhaps stop saying that this is the worst thing I've ever seen that has an IMDB page.
Agent Earle
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Agent Earle » Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:57 am

Hey, everyone, we gots Annie talk, what on Earth are we complaining about?! She was "a girl who went into that place with Cooper", after all! Oh, wait, was it really Annie that went there with him, or was that maybe Lucy? Come to think of it, it was - in all probability - Lana Milford, the winner of Miss Twin Peaks beauty pageant 1989! On third thought, scratch that - Evelyn Marsh was The One. But wait, was Cooper really the one who took her there, or was it James Hurley? No, Dick Tremayne! No no, it was Harry S. Truman. Nah, he couldn't've been it - my money is most definitely on John Justice Wheeler! Darn, so many attractive options, so much time for feverish speculation - the whole next 25 years! Thank you, Mr. Lynch and Mr. Frost, for this wonderful opportunity. Yours Truly, the Original TP Fan Who Payed Much Too Much Attention during the Original Show (AKA The Sucker).
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Wally Brando
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Wally Brando » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:02 am

WhyLynchWhy wrote:I challenge all of you to put forward a season of any TV show ever which you consider to be worse than what we just watched so I can check it out and perhaps stop saying that this is the worst thing I've ever seen that has an IMDB page.

There are literally thousands of tv series worse than TPTR, to suggest it's the worst thing in the history of television makes it very difficult to take anything someone posts after that seriously.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby boske » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:07 am

The Gazebo wrote:
mtwentz wrote:I'm glad you enjoyed a fair bit of it The Gazebo. I did too, but am still trying to wrap my head around it.

There is a part of me that just loves it in its own right. If I have to be honest, there is that part of me that wanted some resolution to certain storylines-Audrey, Red, Ben/Beverly, etc. And we got none of that.


Thanks - to me it felt more like the groundwork for a season 4 than a finale in its own right...

But these guys did not address Annie at all, who and what can guarantee that they would even go back to part 18 for any kind of resolution in a hypothetical season 4?! :D They might again take the show in a "a new bold and daring direction, unencumbered by what happened in the past".
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WhyLynchWhy
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby WhyLynchWhy » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:14 am

Wally Brando wrote:
WhyLynchWhy wrote:I challenge all of you to put forward a season of any TV show ever which you consider to be worse than what we just watched so I can check it out and perhaps stop saying that this is the worst thing I've ever seen that has an IMDB page.

There are literally thousands of tv series worse than TPTR, to suggest it's the worst thing in the history of television makes it very difficult to take anything someone posts after that seriously.


It's the worst TV I've ever seen, but I'll admit that I probably watch less of it than an average dugpa user. As far as movies go, I'm certain there isn't anything worse to me than TPTR. I've seen the bottom of the barrel and I'd rather re-watch Birdemic, Movie 43, Troll 2, all the shitty Adam Sandler movies, etc. 18 times than watch season 3 again.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Bookworm » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:17 am

waferwhitemilk wrote:, greenglove kid vs cgi ball bob ok yeah, but just one small thing i wanted to take out as an example of how lazy and sucky this all was imo: Lucy shooting mr C. Now i've always understood that the difference between a quality show and a stupid gag show is that actions in a quality show are characterdriven, the action flows naturally out of the character, whereas in stupid gagshows they just have any action performed by any character as long as they think they can get some cheap laughs out of it, regardless if the action makes sense for the character performing or not. Sort of like the difference between The Simpsons and Family Guy for example. So for me Lucy having a gun and shooting mr. C falls definitely in the last category. They just let her shoot him because haha isn't that funny Lucy shooting the evil protagonist loooooooool. In no way does that action make sense considering lucy's character or the story though, in fact it diminishes both for a stupid joke. And that's the difference between quality and non-qual-ity. The only genius in this is how Lynch bamboozled people into getting this all made and shown on television, and for that i take my hat off to him.


I didn't ask for a showdown ala Matrix but this? Lucy with a gun out of nowhere, without any clue she could handle a gun, killing Mr.C like this. Rendering Cooper useless and unworthy? No confrontation, no understanding of his Doppelganger nature, nothing. Cooper just pop out on the screen after all the action is done (exactly what I had predicted and I'm so sad to have been right) just in time to send him back in the BL. And then Cooper who was just useless and a joke for most of the Return then again screw things up to eleven (if the lame "This Was All a Dream isn't true) and his left wondering like an idiot on the side of the road. That man who was so brilliant in the original run was just depicted as a complete idiot. But was he really that brilliant to start with? I'm now thinking his so called genius was just luck and... well you know how the saying about the clock goes. He may just have been a quirky FBI agent with a love for everything Tibet and coffee and pies. My Life My Tapes actually hint at that. That he may not be the intelligent and effective man we all though he was. What if he was just a fraud this whole time? What if that what Lynch wanted to accomplish? Taking a beloved character and deconstructing him piece by piece, stripping him down only to let the truth exposed: this man you love so much isn't who you think he was. Look at him, his name is Richard and he's just Just a slob like one of us, just a stranger on the bus, tryin' to make his way home. Isn't it great? Isn't it art? Isn't it genius? Isn't it a bright move?
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby mlsstwrt » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:20 am

Guys, serious question.

As you know I have hated TPTR. I stopped caring about it a long time ago. The ONLY thing I want now is not to have my beloved original TP/FWWM forever tarnished.

Shall I just skip the last two episodes (haven't watched yet). From what I've read here and even on the main thread (which is usually overwhelmingly positive) I don't think any good, for me, will come from watching the finale. Can't believe I'm actually seriously considering not watching 2 hours of TP directed by DL. If somebody had suggested that to me a couple of years ago I would have laughed in their face.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby SpookySculder » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:22 am

I'm sad for people who feel the original show is now tainted for them. I was afraid this would happen to me as well if I didn't like the Return, but oddly enough I don't feel this way. Its probably because I am SO detached on every level from everything about The Return that I actually feel the first 2 seasons/FWWM are totally separate entities. Even though I am overly disappointed with season 3, I don't think it will change my feelings (at least not all that much) when it comes to the original.

To switch gears, I am still trying to make sense of the ending because human brains like to make some sense out of things.

I'm thinking in terms of different dimensions here. Stars aligning themselves, etc. Cooper tries to save Laura but we all know we shouldn't mess with history or try to change it. The tragedy that befell Laura was meant to be. In all films when someone tries to change history, it backfires. It happens here as well.

In this different dimension, Cooper took Laura right before she went to meet up with Leo, Ronette and Jacques, therefore saving her from being killed. He saves her only for Laura to leave home and live yet another life of abuse as "Carrie". In the final scene at the house, Laura, who blocked out her childhood, remembers who she is which is frightening to begin with. But because she and Cooper somehow entered the past (pre Palmers), she also realizes she would have to relive Laura's abusive childhood (and possibly original fate of dying at the hands of Leland/BOB) IDK. I'm probably not explaining this as best I can and maybe its too far of a stretch. But the point is that since "Carrie" too is being abused, Laura can't get away from this tragic life no matter what dimension she is in or how hard Cooper tries to change history.

Someone on reddit brought up that Laura is the dreamer (Laura is the One)... Laura, in trying to cope with Leland's abuse, dreamt she died and all of season 1/2 was her dream/fantasy and oops now she woke up with that terrifying scream in the finale.

I think in OUR world, Laura is still dead.

I'm also still debating if Laura and Cooper wind up back in the red room in the end.. They could possibly still be stuck there.

So many theories can come out of this run so I guess people are correct when they say season 3 can be discussed for decades. I just don't think I personally can rewatch it. Maybe I can rewatch a few eps or scenes here and there, but the majority of it is just forgettable imo. In my mind, TP ends with FWWM.
Last edited by SpookySculder on Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby douglasb » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:23 am

Everything after Cooper leaves the motel was OK, although the cowboy fight was pretty sucky. Get rid of the previous 17.5 hours and there's an interesting TP short film here. TP:TR, where our out of sorts FBI agent takes a woman he thinks is Laura Palmer back home and finds it... different. You could have had a scene in the RR with a Shelly (who isn't), making sense of Lynch's direction to Madchen about her character.

Holy moly.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby boske » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:24 am

douglasb wrote:Everything after Cooper leaves the motel was OK, although the cowboy fight was pretty sucky. Get rid of the previous 17.5 hours and there's an interesting TP short film here. TP:TR, where our out of sorts FBI agent takes a woman he thinks is Laura Palmer back home and finds it... different. You could have had a scene in the RR with a Shelly (who isn't), making sense of Lynch's direction to Madchen about her character.

Holy moly.

Yes, a Twilight Zone episode of TP. That's what it looked like to me.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby AhmedKhalifa » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:30 am

mlsstwrt wrote:Guys, serious question.

As you know I have hated TPTR. I stopped caring about it a long time ago. The ONLY thing I want now is not to have my beloved original TP/FWWM forever tarnished.

Shall I just skip the last two episodes (haven't watched yet). From what I've read here and even on the main thread (which is usually overwhelmingly positive) I don't think any good, for me, will come from watching the finale. Can't believe I'm actually seriously considering not watching 2 hours of TP directed by DL. If somebody had suggested that to me a couple of years ago I would have laughed in their face.


My sentiments exactly. I still haven't watched the last two parts, and after reading some of the posts here, I'm approaching them with lower than low expectations. But, sadly, I think that no matter what, TPTR has, to some extent, hopefully minor, tarnished the original and FWWM. What Lynch did with the characters we know and love is just too frustrating and wilfully cruel to be forgotten. Time will tell.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby The Gazebo » Mon Sep 04, 2017 6:31 am

boske wrote:But these guys did not address Annie at all, who and what can guarantee that they would even go back to part 18 for any kind of resolution in a hypothetical season 4?! :D They might again take the show in a "a new bold and daring direction, unencumbered by what happened in the past".


Yeah, I thought more in the sense of: "Forget everything that has happened earlier, we don't really care - here's where we'll take it in season 4. Deal with it."

I can't really see myself getting invested in a new season. Leaving aside all our earlier complaints about the lack of characters, the fragmented feel, lack of warmth/tone, slippery plot, etc - it's now gone into a realm which just isn't that interesting to me. The sneaking suspicion I had mid-season was more or less confirmed, in the sense that supernatural logistics (and lots of other woo-woo) took centre stage. It doesn't resonate with me. Bob, the giant and the lodge - yeah, no problems. Tulpas, time travel, multiple vortexes, hibernation, magic gloves - no, too much. Even if an allegorical/metaphorical reading might be possible, it doesn't feel enjoyable to watch. Too much subtext, not solid and engaging surface layer.

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