mtwentz wrote:On further reflection, I am not disappointed in the Finale or Lynch so much as I am disappointed in the fact that this show accurately reflected the state of humanity today- the lack of ability of all of us to connect with one another, as we used to as humans during an earlier stage of our evolution. It seems no one in this series quite connected with one another, and maybe that was the point? If you look at it, except for Janey-E, Dougie and Sonny Jim at the end, there were no real happy people in The Return, and even that reunion was kind of fake and contrived (a 'tulpa'). It is a dark vision, but perhaps a very accurate depiction of how many of us live our lives.
And Cooper never really re-connected with Gordon and the Sheriff's station people...
Well, James tried to connect with Renee but it did not really work. But due to his sacrifice we managed to indirectly get rid of the Bob Orb. Yes, and whatever happened to Laura Orb?
mtwentz wrote:On further reflection, I am not disappointed in the Finale or Lynch so much as I am disappointed in the fact that this show accurately reflected the state of humanity today- the lack of ability of all of us to connect with one another, as we used to as humans during an earlier stage of our evolution. It seems no one in this series quite connected with one another, and maybe that was the point? If you look at it, except for Janey-E, Dougie and Sonny Jim at the end, there were no real happy people in The Return, and even that reunion was kind of fake and contrived (a 'tulpa'). It is a dark vision, but perhaps a very accurate depiction of how many of us live our lives.
And Cooper never really re-connected with Gordon and the Sheriff's station people...
Well, James tried to connect with Renee but it did not really work. But due to his sacrifice we managed to indirectly get rid of the Bob Orb. Yes, and whatever happened to Laura Orb?
Oh completely forgot- Ed and Norma, whatever you think of the execution of that subplot, did connect and did have a happy ending.
mtwentz wrote:On further reflection, I am not disappointed in the Finale or Lynch so much as I am disappointed in the fact that this show accurately reflected the state of humanity today- the lack of ability of all of us to connect with one another, as we used to as humans during an earlier stage of our evolution. It seems no one in this series quite connected with one another, and maybe that was the point? If you look at it, except for Janey-E, Dougie and Sonny Jim at the end, there were no real happy people in The Return, and even that reunion was kind of fake and contrived (a 'tulpa'). It is a dark vision, but perhaps a very accurate depiction of how many of us live our lives.
And Cooper never really re-connected with Gordon and the Sheriff's station people...
Well, James tried to connect with Renee but it did not really work. But due to his sacrifice we managed to indirectly get rid of the Bob Orb. Yes, and whatever happened to Laura Orb?
Oh yeah, forgot about James and Renee .
And whatever happened to Donna ?!
Yeah, we completely forgot about her, that tells a lot. I bet most people thought she was with James when he had that accident, but that was never pursued further. I wish James got a better development as a character, he's such a huge part of the original and FWWM, there is just something sad about his fate.
So how would we welcome a new season? Open arms, or sarcastic disdain?
Right now, I don't think I'd watch it weekly. I would probably wait for the whole thing, and then maybe watch an hour or two to assess the direction. My patience would be almost zero for anything resembling this season. Too many hours have been wasted on The Return.
The Gazebo wrote:So how would we welcome a new season? Open arms, or sarcastic disdain?
Right now, I don't think I'd watch it weekly. I would probably wait for the whole thing, and then maybe watch an hour or two to assess the direction. My patience would be almost zero for anything resembling this season. Too many hours have been wasted on The Return.
Do you think if we got a Season 4 we'd find out the final fate of Ben/Beverly, Steven/Becky and Red/Shelly?
David Locke wrote:Although TR was quite a mess overall, and 17 and 18 didn't remedy that (i.e. no conclusion to characters like Sarah, Red, Becky/Shelly, etc) I still thought this was a great ending on its own terms, as a mindfuck Lynch movie. Albeit, Green Glove Man and Bouncing-Ball BOB was possibly the worst extended sequence of the entire TP run (especially the worst "serious" sequence)... but overall 17 was really strong and then 18 I found very compelling. It's hard to put these things into words. 18 was brilliant from the 430 switch onward especially. It will take a while to process, certainly, and doesn't change the fact that TR as a whole is such a convoluted, flawed piece of work. But I enjoyed this. And for the record, I knew we weren't going to see any more Audrey. Just knew it.
I'm in the same boat. I found the last 90 minutes to be haunting and beautiful, but it did not redeem the many flaws of the prior 16 episodes. If anything, they just accentuated how much time we wasted along the way.
mtwentz wrote:Do you think if we got a Season 4 we'd find out the final fate of Ben/Beverly, Steven/Becky and Red/Shelly?
No, I guess there would be a plethora of new faces again, by necessity. What happened earlier in season 3 would probably be water under the bridge. I'd be okay with that. But if the opening two hours would be nothing but vortexes, tulpas and time travel (or even more absurd mythology pulled out from some ancient ramblings), I would just accept defeat and move on.
WhyLynchWhy wrote:I challenge all of you to put forward a season of any TV show ever which you consider to be worse than what we just watched so I can check it out and perhaps stop saying that this is the worst thing I've ever seen that has an IMDB page.
There are literally thousands of tv series worse than TPTR, to suggest it's the worst thing in the history of television makes it very difficult to take anything someone posts after that seriously.
It's the worst TV I've ever seen, but I'll admit that I probably watch less of it than an average dugpa user. As far as movies go, I'm certain there isn't anything worse to me than TPTR. I've seen the bottom of the barrel and I'd rather re-watch Birdemic, Movie 43, Troll 2, all the shitty Adam Sandler movies, etc. 18 times than watch season 3 again.
Another owl wrote:The real funny thing was hearing Lynch sour and criticizing season 2 for years, showing absolutlely no respect for others work, just to present a tedious and lazy 18 parts season that is way worst than season 2 in every aspect. He managed to screw up all the lodge mithology and plus give us a cast of poor development new characters. I don`t have a doubt that this new season would be criticized with no mercy if the director was someone from Lost or something like that.
Well, FU, David Lynch, you pretentious twat. I would go with season 2 over you bullshit season 3 any day.
THIS! EXACTLY THIS! Well, minus the swearing part.
So, I've been avoiding this forum today until I had the chance to watch the finale (I do it after work on Monday - can't stay up 'til stupid o'clock to watch it live) and so that I could come to my own conclusions. However, it is with a heavy heart that I can say that I absolutely agree with everything that's been said here today. Oh, and I think I may have detected a little bit of "buyer's remorse" from a few of the more enthusiastic fans of this series - this makes me sad, I would genuinely hate to think that their enjoyment of this season has been tarnished by these last two episodes.
What can I say? Watching not only series 3, but the entire previous two series' comprehensively trashed by the finale has left me feeling - and I'm not exaggerating - utterly sickened. That blood-freezing scream at the end underlined that we have willingly subjected ourselves not to a dream, but an 18-hour waking nightmare. Kind of reminded me of the mother's scream at the end of the film Threads - a black howl of despair and hopelessness. Episode 17 was poor, but episode 18 really took the biscuit. One of my main criticisms of the show was that it was only tangentially connected to Twin Peaks. Episode 18 had no connection whatsoever to Twin Peaks. I think that it's safe to say that Lynch was taking the piss the entire time.
It's difficult put into words how utterly furious e17 made me. Bu retconning the story so that Laura Palmer never died, Lynch effectively ripped the heart out of the original show. How are we supposed to view the original, in which so much was invested over so much time, in light of the revelation that it, in effect, never happened in the first place? It turns what was a tragedy into a minor inconvenience and effectively wipes the whole narrative from existence. Remember how upset fans of The Simpsons got when they were told that Principal Skinner was an imposter all along? This is even worse. People have grown up with this story, and to callously destroy it in this manner is just cruel and mean-spirited.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
What about the implication in e18 (surely one of the worst conclusions to any television drama ever) that every single thing we have ever known about Twin Peaks was nothing more than a figment of someone's imagination? Sheriff Truman, Hawk, Andy, Lucy, James, Donna, Laura, Bobby, Mike, Nadine, Ed, Norma, Hank, Leo, Jacques, Jean, Blackie, Jerry, Ben, Audrey, Cole, Albert, Pete, Catherine... haha, they never existed! The joke's on you!
I may have referred to this particularly egregious type of deus ex machina as a "Bobby Ewing", but in actual fact, it's much, much worse. Bobby woke up and found that all the bad shit that had happened in the previous year was only a dream, and was able to pick up his life where it left off. If Twin Peaks in toto was a dream, then all the good things, entire lives, never existed, and we are left nothing at all. From a writing standpoint it's cowardly, lazy and, in the end, just plain nasty.
And all that is before we get to the criticism of the main nuts-n-bolts of the two shows. Chad's non-story came to a conclusion. Bet we're all glad that one was resolved, eh? Dribbling Jail Boy spent most of his time looking like Steve Buscemi at the end of Fargo, then vanished. Naido turned out to be the real Diane. Why? Who cares. Green Glove Mockney Boy thunder-fisted BOBall into... somewhere. Didn't see that one coming. More crappy CGI. NeoDougie went home and lived happily ever after. Cole turned into Basil Exposition while Tammy just sat there and stared like a cat that had just been shown a card trick. Cooper and Diane (or were they?) took a romantic trip together because hey, nothing says "Twin Peaks" like an over-extended fuck scene in a shitty roadside motel, right? We even got some tit action from Laura Dern! Whoop, Lynch! You da man! Philip Jeffries is still a teapot with a strange accent.
And, in the end, Cooper is no-one, nothing, nowhere. A more depressing and downbeat ending it would be hard to imagine. It makes s2's climax look positively hopeful by comparison. I know for certain that I will never even think about watching this series ever again, life is just too short. I'm determined to expunge the experience of this show from my memory. The Twin Peaks I knew and loved is still there for me to revisit. I'll pretend none of this ever happened, if I can. It seems that returning to Twin Peaks was a fool's errand, on the part of both the creators and the audience. We were stupid to think otherwise. As Cooper just found out, you really can't go home again.
Peace.
Last edited by judasbooth on Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
im taking it as this. please someone help me. for me the return was somewhat all inside a dream. except the last part. were s1 and s2 inside this dream too?? i need answers
donna madonna mañana fofana osama bin laden hayward
I can't believe I wasted the entire summer on the show. Yes there were some interesting parts but the ending was ridiculous. I understand David Lynch considers himself an artist but this thing was just way over-the-top. I really feel it would've been much better if other people had been involved in the process. Perhaps as the years pass The return will be more accepted as fire walk with me is now but I doubt it. As I said in a previous post halfway through I think David Lynch is giving a huge middle finger to the industry and the fans I really don't understand why he felt he had to do it this way but it is what it is. I'm almost relieved it's over so I don't have to be pissed off all the time anymore. I still have the original series which was special and will never be replicated.
When Jupiter and Saturn meet , oh what a crop of mummy wheat.
The Gazebo wrote:So how would we welcome a new season? Open arms, or sarcastic disdain?
Right now, I don't think I'd watch it weekly. I would probably wait for the whole thing, and then maybe watch an hour or two to assess the direction. My patience would be almost zero for anything resembling this season. Too many hours have been wasted on The Return.
For the fans that really like it, I hope they get season four. For me, I will let TR rest in peace and pretend it never happened. I said it about 80 pages or so back, that what L&F did here was akin to some nogoodniks vandalizing a monument, and I still stand by it. I am tired of TR, I wish I never watched it, it took four months of my life that I wish it never did.
About season 4: I do not see how it would get to be financed or placed under the same creative control (or the lack of it). This is it, this was their chance and they blew it. Having seen parts 17 and 18, no matter what we think of them, does spending 14 parts on Dougie in Las Vegas seem like a good idea or investment?
I am tired. For the sake of good old times, I endured until the very end. It was fair from my side, I trusted them with my time and money, but this is where DL and I and part ways, farewell.
And yes, how's Annie? We depended on finding that out.
one of the disappointing things of the return this was false advertising. this was marketed as twin peaks, and as the showtime ceo said this was about 'dale coopers odyssey back to twin peaks'. i dont think odyssey means staying as a braindead version of yourself for 16 parts and then coming back for the last two parts only to be sent into an alternate dimension/timeline.
maybe the finale would have worked as a twin peaks movie without all of the parts before hand that just feel useless now. even then i hate all the mythology/lore of the show being changed. it kind of tarnishes the impact of the original show+fwwm.
it seems to me lynch/frost put concepts of their work that were never completed, such as elements of ronnie rocket and one saliva bubble, into twin peaks, when these concepts should have never been mixed into twin peaks.
i never liked the concept of some random guy from the uk being chosen by the fireman to combat bob. 'why not you' doesnt sit right with me. bobs destruction was dissapointing i would rather have seen cooper destroy bob or just have bob sent back to the red room.
what happened to the concept of garmonbozia?
Last edited by BIRDSLOVERS on Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
But due to his sacrifice we managed to indirectly get rid of the Bob Orb. Yes, and whatever happened to Laura Orb?
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