Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

[nimeoa]

I quote MST3K...

Mike: "So guys what do you think the message of the story was?"

Crow: "Don't watch it."

[IcedOver]

I like how, when I would complain about aaaaaaall the slow dragging scenes of this season, and all the Jacoby infowars repeats, people would go "Just wait, by the end it will all make sense why Lynch made those choices". Well now it's over, and it turns out it HAD NO greater purpose.

That has absolutely been confirmed.

You're right, and while I'm still mulling this show over, I don't quite know why what you describe is a bad thing. What makes sense, ever? When do we as humans ever get answers? Maybe our world really is controlled by a giant and a fat lady, or by some humanoid rabbits. Who knows? What Lynch is trying to replicate in this is that feeling of frustration, of dissatisfaction, of overall absurdity. You want answers, a comfy resolution, basic plot structure, even adequate direction in some scenes? Fuck you, is what he's saying. He didn't reuse the additional title of "Ronnie Rocket" for nothing -- "The Absurd Mystery of the Strange Forces of Existence" (which would have been more appropriate for this show than "Twin Peaks"). This is his most experimental, absurd, and perhaps most negative work at its core.

[cgs027]

What I can't abide is the whole reality manipulation bullshit.

Yep, and the worst part is that every single continuity error/flaw will be explained away as all being 100% planned.

[lindseylee]

Twin Peaks the Return was a 100% cash grab. Whether it was the seemingly endless variations of cheap and gaudy merchandise or the endless cameos of Lynch's buddies in the RR, i can't believe I spent as much of my life devoted to a TV show where the creator couldn't give their previous work and the fans that support it a little more respect.

Annie, who's Annie? How about throwing another random character into the Roadhouse? How about having Angelo do only three songs? Perhaps we should bring in Chrysta Bell to show off her acting skills.. Arrrgh! So much of a wasted opportunity. I'm so done. Thanks Dugpa and crew for hosting the forum and letting me vent. I'm glad to see the moderators here are keepin it real and not gushing over this garbage.

Cancelling Showtime and putting my Twin Peaks junk on EBay.

[Bookworm]

So, I've been avoiding this forum today until I had the chance to watch the finale (I do it after work on Monday - can't stay up 'til stupid o'clock to watch it live) and so that I could come to my own conclusions. However, it is with a heavy heart that I can say that I absolutely agree with everything that's been said here today. Oh, and I think I may have detected a little bit of "buyer's remorse" from a few of the more enthusiastic fans of this series - this makes me sad, I would genuinely hate to think that their enjoyment of this season has been tarnished by these last two episodes.

What can I say? Watching not only series 3, but the entire previous two series' comprehensively trashed by the finale has left me feeling - and I'm not exaggerating - utterly sickened. That blood-freezing scream at the end underlined that we have willingly subjected ourselves not to a dream, but an 18-hour waking nightmare. Kind of reminded me of the mother's scream at the end of the film Threads - a black howl of despair and hopelessness. Episode 17 was poor, but episode 18 really took the biscuit. One of my main criticisms of the show was that it was only tangentially connected to Twin Peaks. Episode 18 had no connection whatsoever to Twin Peaks. I think that it's safe to say that Lynch was taking the piss the entire time.

It's difficult put into words how utterly furious e17 made me. Bu retconning the story so that Laura Palmer never died, Lynch effectively ripped the heart out of the original show. How are we supposed to view the original, in which so much was invested over so much time, in light of the revelation that it, in effect, never happened in the first place? It turns what was a tragedy into a minor inconvenience and effectively wipes the whole narrative from existence. Remember how upset fans of The Simpsons got when they were told that Principal Skinner was an imposter all along? This is even worse. People have grown up with this story, and to callously destroy it in this manner is just cruel and mean-spirited.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

What about the implication in e18 (surely one of the worst conclusions to any television drama ever) that every single thing we have ever known about Twin Peaks was nothing more than a figment of someone's imagination? Sheriff Truman, Hawk, Andy, Lucy, James, Donna, Laura, Bobby, Mike, Nadine, Ed, Norma, Hank, Leo, Jacques, Jean, Blackie, Jerry, Ben, Audrey, Cole, Albert, Pete, Catherine... haha, they never existed! The joke's on you!

I may have referred to this particularly egregious type of deus ex machina as a "Bobby Ewing", but in actual fact, it's much, much worse. Bobby woke up and found that all the bad shit that had happened in the previous year was only a dream, and was able to pick up his life where it left off. If Twin Peaks in toto was a dream, then all the good things, entire lives, never existed, and we are left nothing at all. From a writing standpoint it's cowardly, lazy and, in the end, just plain nasty.

And all that is before we get to the criticism of the main nuts-n-bolts of the two shows. Chad's non-story came to a conclusion. Bet we're all glad that one was resolved, eh? Dribbling Jail Boy spent most of his time looking like Steve Buscemi at the end of Fargo, then vanished. Naido turned out to be the real Diane. Why? Who cares. Green Glove Mockney Boy thunder-fisted BOBall into... somewhere. Didn't see that one coming. More crappy CGI. NeoDougie went home and lived happily ever after. Cole turned into Basil Exposition while Tammy just sat there and stared like a cat that had just been shown a card trick. Cooper and Diane (or were they?) took a romantic trip together because hey, nothing says "Twin Peaks" like an over-extended fuck scene in a shitty roadside motel, right? We even got some tit action from Laura Dern! Whoop, Lynch! You da man! Philip Jeffries is still a teapot with a strange accent.

And, in the end, Cooper is no-one, nothing, nowhere. A more depressing and downbeat ending it would be hard to imagine. It makes s2's climax look positively hopeful by comparison. I know for certain that I will never even think about watching this series ever again, life is just too short. I'm determined to expunge the experience of this show from my memory. The Twin Peaks I knew and loved is still there for me to revisit. I'll pretend none of this ever happened, if I can. It seems that returning to Twin Peaks was a fool's errand, on the part of both the creators and the audience. We were stupid to think otherwise. As Cooper just found out, you really can't go home again.

Peace.

Well you perfectly summed up my feeling and that why I'm quoting your entire post. David Lynch may be an artist but he's in now way a story teller. Mark Frost may be but I think he was just whiling to go along with Lynch ideas. I can't believe that Lynch both went with the "It was all a dream" trope and with the let save the cheerleader even if it destroy a whole original timeline and replace it with something worse trope. And what he did with Cooper. Turning him into a idiot suffering from Savior Complexe, who end up being useless most of the time, while a perfect stranger get rid of Bob and a cloudcuckoolander resolve the doppelganger arc by shooting him out of nowhere. Cooper was depicted in episode 18 as an perfect silly who can't understand that trying to save Laura Palmer would have disastrous consequences. Tibet my ass. He should have remembered Tibet's precepts and he would have know it was a bad idea. It can be hard to letting go, yes, but not Cooper, not after how he has been depicted in the Original Run. No. No. No.

[Agent327]

You're right, and while I'm still mulling this show over, I don't quite know why what you describe is a bad thing. What makes sense, ever? When do we as humans ever get answers? Maybe our world really is controlled by a giant and a fat lady, or by some humanoid rabbits.

Well, it's possible to defend anything using this line of logic, and I suspect you know that. Even about the very worst Adam Sandler movie, you could go "Why does stuff need to be good? What is REALLY truly good in life? Isn't life itself often lackluster and without true qualities when we ask for them?" etc.

And "What makes sense ever? When do we as humans ever get answers"? Tons of things make perfect sense, and we get answers all the time.

There was a lot of wasted time, that even if Lynch wanted to take a dump on principles like "plot", "resolution" and "respect for the world created in the original TP", which he is completely entitled to, could have been done in a much more entertaining fashion.

[wxray]

Cancelling Showtime and putting my Twin Peaks junk on EBay.

Never bought the junk. Did subscribe to Showtime. That ends tomorrow.

DKL pissed me off in the early 2000's on his weather reports. Some really whacky crap he was spouting off after 9/11. I vowed to ignore him at that time. I broke my vow. I won't vow again. I'll never say never. But man, this was sad.

[judasbooth]

It's probably bad form to quote oneself, but what the hell...

One of the more interesting concepts in that season was that, according to Jacques Renault, Cooper "brought the nightmare with him". This was a fascinating idea, and should have been explored properly. Cooper was our protagonist, but aside from his golly-jeepers, coffee and pie loving, morally redoubtable self, we knew little about him or who he actually was. Some folks have have suggested a wacky Diane Selwyn-style interpretation of the whole thing - that Cooper was, in the real world, the kind of person Windom Earl was, and that his journey into Twin Peaks was self-absolving fantasy of who he really wanted to be.

And so it came to pass: Dale Cooper, and everything that happened in Twin Peaks existed only in the fugue state of some guy called Richard.

Random prediction for next week's finale: One-Armed Man manufactures Dougie 2.0 and sends him to live happily ever after with Janey-E and Sonny Jim. Cooper finds Laura Palmer and brings her back to life (because, fuck it, any concessions to plausibility were thrown out long ago) thereby undermining the whole reason for the whole show existing in the first place. I mean, why care about the life and death of Laura Palmer when nobody in this world ever really dies?

Woo, do I get a prize for this? Did I predict this, or did I see it all, then pass through a portal to the past to warn myself about the future? Is it future, or is it past? Gosh, the concept is just too much for my little mind.

[wxray]

Woo, do I get a prize for this? Did I predict this, or did I see it all, then pass through a portal to the past to warn myself about the future? Is it future, or is it past? Gosh, the concept is just too much for my little mind.

I don't know, but I'm going to steal your little gold seed so I can get whatever you have!

[douglasb]

Worst villain in much beloved fictional universe :

Mr. C or Kylo Ren?

[IcedOver]

Well, it's possible to defend anything using this line of logic, and I suspect you know that. Even about the very worst Adam Sandler movie, you could go "Why does stuff need to be good? What is REALLY truly good in life? Isn't life itself often lackluster and without true qualities when we ask for them?" etc.

And "What makes sense ever? When do we as humans ever get answers"? Tons of things make perfect sense, and we get answers all the time.

There was a lot of wasted time, that even if Lynch wanted to take a dump on principles like "plot", "resolution" and "respect for the world created in the original TP", which he is completely entitled to, could have been done in a much more entertaining fashion.

Yeah, maybe I went too far including basic filmmaking, which I do feel sucked in quite a few scenes, perhaps due to a rushed production. However, I do believe the other stuff is key to enjoying the show, or at least getting value out of it. I don't know, I'm still going back and forth over it. Can't decide if I'm happy over these bonkers 18 hours, or disappointed.

[Endangered_Wulf]

Some of the people in the main thread are looking towards the next book or a hypothetical fourth season for answers. Why? The pervious book proved to have no connection to TP:TR or Lynch. Even if it does contain answers, they have no input from 50% of the creative duo. As for a season four: with the creative choices that were made in season three, why would anyone expect another season to be any different?

A question for those who hate the Laura death retcon: you say it ruins the original show. Aren't we meant to love Laura and be sad about her death? So her not dying is a good thing, yes?

Full disclosure: I stopped watching after episode 11.

Yeah. I understand. Inter dimensional time travel is not a NEW idea to the Twin Peaks franchise (like when Donna shows up to Mrs. Tremond during season TWO for the second time and everything has changed) but the way inter dimensional time travel/melting is discussed in the overall story line is disappointing. The Lynch-Frost team really could have made that SPECTACULAR but obviously didn't care enough. That much is VERY apparent.

-As far as Laura dying.. Laura is DEFINITELY dead....in one multiverse-time-line/dimension and also I don't believe in a million years Laura Palmer is a 'good guy' character. Yes. she was flawed. Yes, she was abused and damaged by her father Leland but really even in a different dimension she had a dead-guy on her couch. She was coked up. She was a fun loving prostitute....but I agree...in a strange way....we all loved her.

Cooper discovered a way to travel through time and space like that Science Fiction Show "SLIDERS". Maybe that is the direction the Lynch-Frost team want to steer the franchise? Maybe one day we will see.

[Agent327]

What can I say? Watching not only series 3, but the entire previous two series' comprehensively trashed by the finale has left me feeling - and I'm not exaggerating - utterly sickened. That blood-freezing scream at the end underlined that we have willingly subjected ourselves not to a dream, but an 18-hour waking nightmare.

....

I know for certain that I will never even think about watching this series ever again, life is just too short. I'm determined to expunge the experience of this show from my memory. The Twin Peaks I knew and loved is still there for me to revisit. I'll pretend none of this ever happened, if I can. It seems that returning to Twin Peaks was a fool's errand, on the part of both the creators and the audience. We were stupid to think otherwise. As Cooper just found out, you really can't go home again.
.

I quoted two paragraphs from your excellent post, but people should read your post in it's entirety - really great stuff from the heart. Poignant and funny at times too.

Just to address your final point; before this season aired, I kept saying that if there is one bit of advice I feel I could give to people, and in fact I stated this as my reason for singing up for the forum, it would be to look at this upcoming season as a pure "bonus". Not even as canon. As a bonus, and thus not let it affect the way you view the original in any way shape or form.

Lynch's late career work had me worried, furthered by his interviews. I had strong doubts that his talents would extend to doing a respectful or even satisfying continuation of this very unique world. For all his talents, it's in no way a given that this skill or sensibility is part of his repertoire. It's obvious to me that when Lynch says he loves the world of Twin Peaks, he loves it mostly as a pallet from which he can paint freely. However, there is no real respect for the characters or the sensibilities of the original series as The Return clearly confirmed.

"The Return" now has a very ironic ring to it as a title, as it was the opposite of a return to that world. It was a drawn out, visually flat and cold looking, ultimately meaningless nightmare that does it's best to minimize the profound elements of the original.

Thankfully it's entirely up to the viewer if you allow that to happen for you. I look at this like an interesting bonus, and see it the way it looks like visually; like webisodes.

Not canon.

My feelings about the original show are completely intact.

[Endangered_Wulf]

Some of the people in the main thread are looking towards the next book or a hypothetical fourth season for answers. Why? The pervious book proved to have no connection to TP:TR or Lynch. Even if it does contain answers, they have no input from 50% of the creative duo. As for a season four: with the creative choices that were made in season three, why would anyone expect another season to be any different?

A question for those who hate the Laura death retcon: you say it ruins the original show. Aren't we meant to love Laura and be sad about her death? So her not dying is a good thing, yes?

Full disclosure: I stopped watching after episode 11.

Yeah. I understand. Inter dimensional time travel is not a NEW idea to the Twin Peaks franchise (like when Donna shows up to Mrs. Tremond during season TWO for the second time and everything has changed) but the way inter dimensional time travel/melting is discussed in the overall story line is disappointing. The Lynch-Frost team really could have made that SPECTACULAR but obviously didn't care enough. That much is VERY apparent.

-As far as Laura dying.. Laura is DEFINITELY dead....in at least ONE multiverse-time-line/dimension Laura is definitely a dead-duck however also I don't believe in a million years Laura Palmer is a 'good guy' character. Yes. she was flawed. Yes, she was abused and damaged by her father Leland but really even in a different dimension she had a dead-guy on her couch. She was coked up. She was a fun loving prostitute....but I agree...in a strange way....we all loved her.

Cooper discovered a way to travel through time and space like that Science Fiction Show "SLIDERS". Maybe that is the direction the Lynch-Frost team want to steer the franchise? Maybe one day we will see.

[Manwith]

Okay, apparently Frost implied in the Blue Rose Magazine interview Annie would be in his book, but it could be a red herring I guess:

Q: Will we learn more about Annie and her fate in the new series?
A: All I can say is: Wait for my addendum to the book [Twin Peaks: The Final Dossier] to come out.