Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

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Redlodge
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Redlodge » Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:36 am

poodlerottweiler wrote:Thank goodness I found this place. Trying to criticize, vent or expressing disappointment anywhere else is always met with the most pretentious bull from hardcore Lynch fans who are trying to sound more enlightened than they are. I feel like this whole season, as much as I enjoyed a lot of it, was ultimately pointless at best and mean-spirited at worst. The actors keep insisting how much Lynch adores TP but it seemed like this whole venture was a "fuck you" to the original show, actors and fans. I'm not trying to insult Lynch or his fans but really, it's hard for me to see this as anything but Lynch masturbating to himself for 18 hours while flipping the bird to everyone. The fact that it's being lauded as high art by critics just baffles me. I'm saying all this as someone who thinks Lost Highway is a masterpiece and didn't watch TP/FWWM until a few years ago.




I think you hit the nail on the head as I have said in previous posts. The Return was a complete mess and I really thought the whole Dougie thing was as bad as it could get that is until parts 17 and 18. I think Lynch is doing the right thing by not making anymore films. He obviously has some issues. FWWM was a total letdown when I saw it in the theatre in 1992 and when I first heard that the new series was an extension of the film I got worried. There were some parts of the series I liked but I didn't see why we had to be built up over and over again just to be let down again. I bet the execs at Showtime regret spending all that money on this project. IMO it would have been a much better series if other people had been involved. The whole demigod Lynchian thing is what destroyed the project. So many things were not addressed and others went on way too long. It's over and I am actually glad it is. It was exhausting to watch and honestly just made me angry most Sundays. I don't understand why Lynch did this but if he wanted his final project remembered as a collosal flop that's what he got.
When Jupiter and Saturn meet , oh what a crop of mummy wheat.
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Redlodge
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Redlodge » Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:50 am

Cooper went into the lodge to rescue Annie whom he supposedly was in love with. He never brought her up at all, and suddenly he's madly in love with Diane ?
In the original series Cooper didn't act like he'd ever heard of any Lodge as pointed out but his reaction watching Major Briggs video of Windom Earle from the Bluebook project archives. So the whole Jowday thing doesn't hold water.
The glass box and the experiment were never explained so why go to all the trouble of building the thing if there was no resolution.
We got Cooper back and lost him again in the course of a couple episodes.
The guy with the truck that was supposed to meet Andy was never explained.
Audrey ?
The viewers and fans are the ones who watched and it's like Lynch was keeping everything a secret and didn't care if we figured it out or not.
This was lazy filmmaking plain and simple, just a bunch of clips put together in no real order.
Cooper escaped the Black Lodge after 25 years why didn't he just go on with his life ?
Twin Peaks the original series was magic but The Return just makes me mad.
The whole thing was like William Shatner on SNL years ago telling the Trekkies to Get a Life !
Lynch told us all to get a life and released this garbage to make us feel bad which it did.
When Jupiter and Saturn meet , oh what a crop of mummy wheat.
NewtoTwinPeaks
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby NewtoTwinPeaks » Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:08 am

One thing that was very disappointing was the lack of Cooper reconnecting or even having a single line of dialogue with some of the old Twin Peaks residents.

Not to mention, he didn't even say hi to Albert who he's known for quite some time.

It ended up being more about Cooper and Diane, who I actually wish stayed a tape recorded. I think Laura Dern does a good job with what she's been given, but the Diane character (other than episode 7) was very flat to me. Also, I'm not sure why Gordon Cole had to be the one to walk with Cooper (as well as Diane) to the boiler room.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby boske » Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:43 am

The Return is so messed up we do not even know who Shelly is married to! Yes, Bobby seems to be Becky's father and that's all we know. Dougie apparently won 28 consecutive jackpots, perhaps 18 would have been a better, more fitting, number.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby boske » Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:55 am

Here is a postmortem analysis of one place. One of iconic TP locations is the Great Northern. Unfortunately, it does not seem that the Return has really returned to it. We have not see any interior shots of the hotel other than of Ben's office (which may have been on a set). We have not seen any guests, not even the elusive New Yorkers that keep the hotel afloat. We have not either seen room #315, but what we have seen is the key to room #315, which the sheriff keeps in a pocket of his jacket at all times, and can be used to open the furnace room in the basement of the hotel. Only Chad seems to have such a kick-ass key. We have not seen any employees other than Beverly, and she is a secretary, thus not involved with guests in any capacity. I am not counting Green-Gloved hotel security that roam the hotel's nether regions. It seems as if Ben is the caretaker, he's always been the caretaker.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Dreamy Audrey » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:18 am

boske wrote:The Return is so messed up we do not even know who Shelly is married to! Yes, Bobby seems to be Becky's father and that's all we know.

She is married to Bobby, Carl Rodd called her "Shelly Briggs".

I was disappointed about only seeing Ben's office, too. Considering the slow pacing and many pointless scenes of the series, there could have been scenes showing hotel guests. I thought all of the old Twin Peaks locations were underused (the show was called Twin Peaks after all). We didn't really see much of the Sheriff's Department either, Part 17 was the first and only time we got a good look at the entrance hall or Frank's complete office (before that we only saw the desk).
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Endangered_Wulf » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:22 am

poodlerottweiler wrote:Thank goodness I found this place. Trying to criticize, vent or expressing disappointment anywhere else is always met with the most pretentious bull from hardcore Lynch fans who are trying to sound more enlightened than they are. I feel like this whole season, as much as I enjoyed a lot of it, was ultimately pointless at best and mean-spirited at worst. The actors keep insisting how much Lynch adores TP but it seemed like this whole venture was a "fuck you" to the original show, actors and fans. I'm not trying to insult Lynch or his fans but really, it's hard for me to see this as anything but Lynch masturbating to himself for 18 hours while flipping the bird to everyone. The fact that it's being lauded as high art by critics just baffles me. I'm saying all this as someone who thinks Lost Highway is a masterpiece and didn't watch TP/FWWM until a few years ago.


Welcome. Make no mistake we all appreciate the Lynch/Frost partnership, but knowing what we all know about what those two professionals are capable of either on their own or together..there's no excuse for an 18 hour presentation that was obviously created with no working storyboard (pre-production). The Return has it's moments but after 25 years I am VERY disappointed both Lynch and Frost spent very little QUALITY time crafting a memorable story. I've said this before and I'll say it again. Storytelling that is Disjointed and Incoherent has it's limits. It's good every now and again but 18 hours worth is straight-up heartbreaking for someone like myself who absolutely loved Season One and select parts of Season TWO. The Twin Peaks world has so much potential for growth and long term innovation. I feel like Lynch and Frost spent 18 hours and who knows how much funding squandering that opportunity.

Welcome to this thread. You are not alone.
"Fire is the devil, hiding like a coward in the smoke" -Margaret Lanterman The Log Lady
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boske
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby boske » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:50 am

Dreamy Audrey wrote:
boske wrote:The Return is so messed up we do not even know who Shelly is married to! Yes, Bobby seems to be Becky's father and that's all we know.

She is married to Bobby, Carl Rodd called her "Shelly Briggs".

I was disappointed about only seeing Ben's office, too. Considering the slow pacing and many pointless scenes of the series, there could have been scenes showing hotel guests. I thought all of the old Twin Peaks locations were underused (the show was called Twin Peaks after all). We didn't really see much of the Sheriff's Department either, Part 17 was the first and only time we got a good look at the entrance hall or Frank's complete office (before that we only saw the desk).

Thank you, I obviously missed Carl Rodd's statement on that.

Another iconic part of TP is Dale Cooper himself. This time around both Dale and his Doppelganger have spent less time combined in TP than Dougie did on screen staring at that gunslinger statue in front of the Lucky 7 building. Coop played this time a remote second fiddle to the Green-Glove Cockney Prodigy, but luckily still got to kiss his Chantal, er. Diane. How's Annie? How's Audrey? No time for that. No time for RR2GO, damn good coffee and cherry pie. Say hello to Harry sheriff, indeed. Yes, and Albert, no time for him. Not as cool as Gordon Cole.

Now, if they had made Gordon Cole part of the Bookhouse Boys way back then, maybe the Boys would have made the script. Sorry, better luck next time. Yup, Twin Peaks: The Return. When you see it again, it won't be it. And it wasn't.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby mine » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:52 am

If I had to sum up my very mixed views on The Return, i'd say it's less than the sum of its parts.
I can appreciate the scenes in isolation, especially in the finale there were some really successful conveying of tension and uneasiness. But the lack of any decent context for those scenes to exist in makes them seem as mere exercises in style. And they got repetitive and boring way back in the 1/2 half of the show's run.
I find it ironic that the negligence for narrative ended up leaving behind a very cliché structure bellow the surface not unlike what you'd find in every superhero movie that is expected to get a sequel.
There were basically two parallel plots associated with a villain/threat. One plot was resolved by the villain (Bob) being destroyed while the other introduced an even more threatening villain (mother, Judy or whatever) who's defeat is delayed to the sequel. That's where Laura comes into play.
I've seen interpretation around Cooper attempting to save Laura and failing, but that's not hot it was laid out in the show. We've seen The Fireman defining her as the chosen one (or something like that), it was painfully clear Cooper was on a mission on the behalf of The Fireman and other inhabitants of the lodges. Saving Laura was merely a step in this larger plan. I mean they really hammered us over the head about there being some larger purpose to Coop's mission and Laura's destiny. Even what Cooper and Carrie-Laura encounter in Twin Peaks was foreshadowed by his conversation with Diane before the crossing and the Richard/Linda thing by The Fireman even before that. Sarah's voice being overheard and Laura reacting to it with that scream crashes all the interpretations about there being any failure there - it's merely a complication.
The ending, and the season as a whole, was a by the numbers set up for a sequel, whether it was intended as such or not. It seems as if they rehashed some of the worst habits by showrunners that don't know where they're going with their narrative and covered that up with a handful of layers of those surreal scenes that ultimately feels as if they served the purpose of deflecting the viewer's attention from the fact that they haven't thought stuff through all that well.
There's unorthodox narrative, and there's just a bunch of stuff tacked one after the other just because someone felt like something would look cool.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby SpookySculder » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:00 am

Glad I'm not the only one who felt it a slap in the face to the original cast. So many supporters of TPR were getting a mean-spirited thrill out of the idea that Lynch might somehow be trolling the fans of the old series but if that is indeed true, he also gave the finger to the original cast in the process..No matter why they made the choices they did, it all came out a complete and utter mess, imo. And no, this hasn't to do with nostalgia.

Someone in another post compared season 3 with FWWM saying something to the effect that season 3 may be viewed more positively in the future. I don't think this is the case. FWWM's failure was all because of emotions. So much went wrong at the end of TPs run. Many viewers gave up on the show before the finale. Some others wanted FWWM to be a continuation, not a prequel. Eventually, with emotions dying down, some came around to it because it is indeed an excellent piece of work. I can't blame fan emotion or nostalgia for people disliking season 3. At least not from what I'm reading here. I think all we really *expected* was a well fleshed out story with proper development of characters, both old and new. We didn't get it. Any of it. This was a season literally about nothing.

And to think back when when season 3 began, I actually thought I was enjoying it MORE than the original. After the fourth episode or so, I started to get a bad feeling about where it was headed. I personally didn't think it would end up this bad, though. I held out hope til' the finale.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Dreamy Audrey » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:08 am

boske wrote:Another iconic part of TP is Dale Cooper himself. This time around both Dale and his Doppelganger have spent less time combined in TP than Dougie did on screen staring at that gunslinger statue in front of the Lucky 7 building.

And why was it even necessary for Dougie to be in Las Vegas and isolated from the rest of the old cast for all Parts? Gordon and Albert could have found him and brought him to Twin Peaks, then at least we would have seen more of the town and some interactions between the characters. And he really should have woken up earlier. The plot in the Sheriff's Department in Part 17 felt so rushed. If Cooper had gone earlier to Twin Peaks, there would have been time for scenes that show him reconnect with the other characters. But no, just let him rush in for a few seconds and let him leave again, so that he can hook up with Diane because she has always been the most important woman in his life :roll:
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Endangered_Wulf » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:11 am

SpookySculder wrote:Glad I'm not the only one who felt it a slap in the face to the original cast. So many supporters of TPR were getting a mean-spirited thrill out of the idea that Lynch might somehow be trolling the fans of the old series but if that is indeed true, he also gave the finger to the original cast in the process..No matter why they made the choices they did, it all came out a complete and utter mess, imo. And no, this hasn't to do with nostalgia.

Someone in another post compared season 3 with FWWM saying something to the effect that season 3 may be viewed more positively in the future. I don't think this is the case. FWWM's failure was all because of emotions. So much went wrong at the end of TPs run. Many viewers gave up on the show before the finale. Some others wanted FWWM to be a continuation, not a prequel. Eventually, with emotions dying down, some came around to it because it is indeed an excellent piece of work. I can't blame fan emotion or nostalgia for people disliking season 3. At least not from what I'm reading here. I think all we really *expected* was a well fleshed out story with proper development of characters, both old and new. We didn't get it. Any of it. This was a season literally about nothing.

And to think back when when season 3 began, I actually thought I was enjoying it MORE than the original. After the fourth episode or so, I started to get a bad feeling about where it was headed. I personally didn't think it would end up this bad, though. I held out hope til' the finale.


YUP. A buddy of mine from work said something about 'The Return' being a 'Money-Grab' for the Lynch & Frost Team as they both are in their latter years. I guess we'll never truly know concerning that, but one thing for sure about 'The Return'...something that is indisputable...'WHAT A MESS' !
"Fire is the devil, hiding like a coward in the smoke" -Margaret Lanterman The Log Lady
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby boske » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:13 am

Dreamy Audrey wrote:
boske wrote:Another iconic part of TP is Dale Cooper himself. This time around both Dale and his Doppelganger have spent less time combined in TP than Dougie did on screen staring at that gunslinger statue in front of the Lucky 7 building.

And why was it even necessary for Dougie to be in Las Vegas and isolated from the rest of the old cast for all Parts? Gordon and Albert could have found him and brought him to Twin Peaks, then at least we would have seen more of the town and some interactions between the characters. And he really should have woken up earlier. The plot in the Sheriff's Department in Part 17 felt so rushed. If Cooper had gone earlier to Twin Peaks, there would have been time for scenes that show him reconnect with the other characters. But no, just let him rush in for a few seconds and let him leave again, so that he can hook up with Diane because she has always been the most important woman in his life :roll:

There is no explanation. The show flat stinks. It is an anti-show, a piece of anti-art, really. No other way to explain it. It is a multi-contextual train wreck, a cynical torpedo fired at the legacy of Twin Peaks.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby judasbooth » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:30 am

I've seen quite a few folks out there speculating on where season 4 will go. I don't know what makes them so optimistic. There will never be a 4th season (thankfully). The viewing figures were... let's just say that the appeal of Twin Peaks, to quote Ian Faith, has become "more selective". I don't believe that any TV exec would knowingly give Lynch and Frost any money after this debacle. That's assuming that those two actually wanted to do another series. Even if this happened, it would take another, oh, let's say 4 or 5 years to get it from the page to the screen. KM will be well into his sixties by then. As for getting the rest of the cast involved - would you sign up again, knowing how royally you'd been shafted this time? God only knows what the returning cast made of it.

Surely the closing scenes of the final episode hammered the point home: Twin Peaks is dead. Frankly, it was coughing up blood from around episode 4 and thereafter showed few signs of recovery.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby squeegeebeck » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:34 am

Thanks god i found you guys!! I'm sooo glad I'm not the only one who disliked this revival... on other boards my fiancee and I were actually called names for not liking this self-celebrating return, i think this was totally unnecessary... i'm so disappointed and angry. i liked so much better The X-Files 2016 (at least it was humouristic...) :) if u find some mistakes in my posts it's because i'm not an english native speaker ^^ nice to meet you all and again... thanks for being here letting me feel not alone!! :D
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