Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

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boske
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby boske » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:08 am

anthoto1 wrote:The level of sheer hate on this topic has become insane. :lol:

"Call for help"' :lol:

Maybe you should instead ponder why David Lynch named the first part "My log has a message for you", seriously.
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Framed_Angel
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Framed_Angel » Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:22 am

Eva Marie wrote:As for loose screws: Isabella Rosselini commented that Lynch LAUGHED during the shooting of the rape scene in Blue Velvet. :shock: Even knowing that there is a phenomenon of some people laughing to alleviate discomfort in awkward situations, it really makes you wonder...
Link, please?
Hearsay stuff can become prurient in its own self-sowing. I think this/ her assertion needs some more context, but IMO isn't relevant to analyzing a film work without devolving into a raft of mud-digging for hearsay that affirms one's suspicions about the creator's character.
Your point is heard, but begs the question, Why did Rosselini stay with him then. Says as much about her as about him, it could be argued. Ultimately, we don't have access to DKL's brain at the moment to dissect and know what he had in mind for creating TPTR or its effect. And if time travel wasn't ridiculous enough already, it is when it's reckoned one can purport what he had in mind 30+ years ago making movies.
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nick1218
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby nick1218 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:06 am

ok so Philip Jeffries is a teapot. The MFAP is a beehive looking thing on a Charlie Brown Christmas tree looking thing. Major Briggs is one of those Fatheads of himself. Bob is a membrane sphere of some sort.

Why stop there? Whjy not make Pete Martell into a basketball?
Make the old waiter into a telephone "Im hung up, I hung myself up"
They could have made Sheriff Truman into a cherry pie.

there is so much more they could have done
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nick1218
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby nick1218 » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:10 am

Poiuyt wrote:Is there any way to salvage the original show after this? I don't want to think about Diane being raped or having awkward sex with Coop every time he brings out his tape recorder. I don't want to remember that all of seasons one and two get erased from existence because Coop inexplicably goes back in time and "saves" Laura (except he doesn't really because "Laura" no longer exists). I fear that the only closure I might get is to just disconnect from this show and expunge it from my life.


me too
mlsstwrt
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby mlsstwrt » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:47 am

It was a brilliant solution to Bowie's passing. David Bowie is dead so let's replace him with a giant teapot and a terrible approximation of his already shocking accent in FWWM. Genius. How does Lynch come up with this stuff?

What is it he says about catching the big fish? Well his skills as a fisherman are no longer there and he's catching minnows at best.
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Gabriel
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Gabriel » Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:49 am

nick1218 wrote:
Poiuyt wrote:Is there any way to salvage the original show after this? I don't want to think about Diane being raped or having awkward sex with Coop every time he brings out his tape recorder. I don't want to remember that all of seasons one and two get erased from existence because Coop inexplicably goes back in time and "saves" Laura (except he doesn't really because "Laura" no longer exists). I fear that the only closure I might get is to just disconnect from this show and expunge it from my life.


me too

That's what I'm doing. My view is that Coop got trapped in the Lodge and he got out eventually. That's enough for me!
Esselgee
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Esselgee » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:16 am

Eva Marie wrote: and the single non-Hollywood sized woman was introduced only to be beaten to near death (Miriam).


There was also Heidi, the woman with the dog in Ruth Davenport's apartment building, Senorita Dido, and maybe Rebekah Del Rio.
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powerleftist
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby powerleftist » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:23 am

Esselgee wrote:Heidi, the woman with the dog in Ruth Davenport's apartment building, Senorita Dido, and maybe Rebekah Del Rio.

Heidi and the dog woman are just jokes. Senorita Dido looks like a White Lodge housewife, Fireman's wife, existing under his shadow. Rebekah Del Rio is there only as a reference to Mulholland Dr.
merlinmage
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby merlinmage » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:52 am

Hi there,

long time lurker, first time poster. English is not my native language, so be advised. ;)

I think I started reading this thread the first time after watching episode 3 and 4. Long before that I enjoyed every film of David Lynch (except Eraserhead which I never saw and IE, which I consider a mess), I asked myself why I was so disappointed in the first 4 hours of TR. I rewatched FWWM and the first season of TP, which I again greatly enjoyed. I started to like DKL because he added another level to his movies, his work really provoked a thinking process in me, BUT: his films up until IE had a certain cinematic quality. Meaning even if you "didn't get" it, you could appreciate the camerawork, the editing, the sound design, the sound track and many, many more elements a film is made of. TR in my opinion completely lacked that. I work in the editorial part of "the industry" aswell (in Europe), and I instantely had the need to cut atleast 50% of the time of every episode when people kept starring at each other while saying nothing. The horrid pink room at the start of episode 3 was badly enough, and the face of Major Briggs floating around in space almost brought me in a kind of rage, since every VFX guy in his third semester of film school could do better work than this abomination of shots.

However, I kept watching, I wanted to know if Dougie Cooper was only a thing for a couple of episodes. When Dougie was yelling "Hellloooooooo" in the casino I died inside. What in the world happened to Lynch and Frost? Did no one from the production staff questioned the decision making on the set or maybe even before that in the script? I was facepalming when the first shot of my beloved series started with a stock footage clip from New York and then moved to Las Vegas later in the episode. This was not the Twin Peaks I would ever sign up for! If this would be a new, original series, okay, but TR broke every connection with the original run, even slaughtered FWWM in the last two episodes. I never could have guessed that after this season was done, all I wish is that TR never came into existence and that EP29 was the last episode we ever got. Some things better stay dead.

But this was not the end - people on Twitter, Facebook, Dugpa - they all praised TR as a masterpiece, as a perfect series, new, refreshing, while I wondered how bad this series was going. People wrote that they laughed, that they cried - every episode up to episode 5 I watched emotionsless, questioning myself how bad one can screw up a project both artistically and technically. If this thread wouldn't exist I would have lost all hope in humanity, so thank you my friends for being here. :)

I'm sorry that I wrote in such a negative way, especially since this is my first post. But after the finale, I just wanted to share my experience with you all!
Last edited by merlinmage on Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Framed_Angel
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Framed_Angel » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:57 am

powerleftist wrote:
Esselgee wrote:Heidi, the woman with the dog in Ruth Davenport's apartment building, Senorita Dido, and maybe Rebekah Del Rio.
Heidi and the dog woman are just jokes. Senorita Dido looks like a White Lodge housewife, Fireman's wife, existing under his shadow. Rebekah Del Rio is there only as a reference to Mulholland Dr.
I hope I don't come across as contrarian all the time. But did we really see that many female characters in the original TP who weren't svelte, willowy or sensuously figured?

Catherine Martell had enough screen presence no one cared she wasn't a stick figure.
Any other fuller figured ladies in the original? I'm drawing a blank.

From my own POV, this S3, Watts appeared to me alarmingly thin, bordering on emaciated. But her acting won me over, so I forgot to care.

Anyway: Marjorie with the dog, I don't dismiss as a 'joke' mainly because (in retrospect) her confusion as she tried to come up with information for the detectives resonates with much confused-quality of other characters and situations we'd come to notice throughout S3. And I think Dido was rather made-up heavily and spangle-garbed to chalk up to 'housewife' status with no role whatsoever. Her / the Fireman's appearance in Part 8 coincided with something Lynch stated how helpful it'd be for viewers to use headphones (as with Fireman's "Listen to the sounds). Dido, during that prolonged stretch of sitting there slightly bobbing as music played, was listening to the sounds.

But the rest of eva_marie[?]s stuff about nagging wives to excess and exploitative underdressed damsels for little redemptive purpose, I agree.
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boske
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby boske » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:11 pm

I think time has come to start winding down my presence on this board. I said what I wanted to and felt like, and I thank Dugpa for letting me and all of us all speak out mind here freely. I might pop in once in a while, maybe once Frost's book is out, or when we finally get those Mr C. puke analysis results. :lol:

So my final verdict is this. The Return is the most disappointing thing I have ever seen, a head-first stratospheric fall from grace, an unmitigated disaster, a colossal waste of time and energy, a steaming pile of misanthropic trash emitting a loud stench, a nihilistic anti-show, a repugnant piece of anti-art, if there ever was one to compare it to. It is a disturbing insight into a desert of a nonexistent void, housing all kinds of demons and nightmares. It is a black-hole of nothingness that has attempted to mock, humiliate, and denigrate anything and anybody it came into contact with, primarily its viewers, but its actors too if I may add.

There is no going back. And yet, real artists have managed to capture that feeling and tell a story that is already captivating, timeless, beautiful, and inspiring.

Farewell!

judasbooth
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby judasbooth » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:22 pm

Well, I've only been here a month, but I think it's time to take my leave. I've said pretty much all I have to say about the show, and I think it's time to move on.

I would like to extend my thanks, not only to my fellow Profoundly Disappointed, but also to those posters who could genuinely loved the show. There have been a handful of exceptions, but I found them almost always polite, fair-minded, engaging and considered in their defence. They prevented this thread from descending into an echo chamber of discontent, and their willingness to engage in debate, in turn, helped me sharpen and clearly define my own criticisms. Perhaps if Lynch had had interlocutors of an similar calibre, we would have witnessed and entirely different Twin Peaks.

Special thanks to all the posters, but especially to Gazebo, ABR, Dreamy Audrey, Gabriel, boske, David Locke, wafer, bookworm, sylvia_north, venus, and anyone else who I may have forgotten. And a special shout-out to the illustrious founder of this thread, misstwrt. This thread has more creativity, wit style and imagination than any Twin Peaks reboot.

I would, finally, like to reiterate and endorse what Gabriel said: it is up to those dissatisfied souls not to let this shit pass, but to do something about it. Some of the greatest art comes from a profound sense of dissatisfaction. I assume I am not the only person who watched the show thinking I could do better than that. The new series of Twin Peaks is merely one example of shoddy work that is, in my opinion, utterly unworthy of its cultural status, and the only remedy for this sorry state of affairs is to create something better. Write that book/screenplay/song. Paint/draw/photograph those pictures. Do it with love and enthusiasm and never lose sight of the humanity and empathy that lies at the core of the greatest creative work.

Someone elsewhere commented that The Return was "the last gasp of Boomer postmodernism". I'm inclined to agree. The postwar generation that took so much and left so little for everyone else is fading fast. The line "the past was yours, but the future's mine" (from a similarly overrated artist) is particularly apt. Those that were previously worshipped as minor gods, in truth, have been shown to have feet of clay. Whether you be Millennial, Gen-Y, or Gen-X like myself, it is up to you to leave these dinosaurs behind and never look back.

Despite all that has happened, I remain optimistic.

Thank you all for your company.
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Head
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Head » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:22 pm

One of my biggest questions after watching The Return week to week and reading reactions to it on the internet: When did serious critics become David Lynch apologists? Never have I watched something I hate so much that gets so much praise. This show has a 93% fresh rating on Rotten Tomatoes! Consensus indicates this was suspenseful. Really? The Audrey Horne scenes were suspenseful? It seems to me like a lot of critics have lost their ability to think critically. I have been lurking in this thread for a while now, and this seems like one of the few places where people critically analyze the show.

I am very disappointed in The Return. I despise it. It was so boring. So joyless. The story was so uninteresting, if there even was a story at all. There is so much wrong with it.

The logic gymnastics in the reviews is so baffling to me. I’ve seen a lot of arguing along the lines of “Well, this show is weird, I don’t get it. But, it’s David Lynch! What did you expect?!” As if Lynch reached a point where he can’t be criticized anymore. David Lynch is so synonymous with ‘weird’ now. And that to me seems like such a gross reduction of a (once) great artist! And most of all I disagree with it. I like most of Lynch’s films. They’re not just weird. I think they work for me because they’re all essentially stories about humans. Which is also why the original Twin Peaks worked, which had a very simple, fascinating premise and used the tools of surrealism to tell the story. In The Return, the surrealism has become an end in itself.

The cynical version of me thinks David Lynch doesn’t care about people anymore. Which then explains why all the characters are so underdeveloped, so wafer-thin, so uninteresting. They only exist as mouthpieces for Lynch to let him explain the lodge mythology and everything that goes with that, which is something I lost interest in a long time ago.

If I have to believe the critics, this isn’t just a tv show, this is art. I kind of think of it as a Rorschach test, where people can find meaning and see what they want to see in the meaningless paint splashes on their screen. But if this is art, then maybe it better belongs in a museum. It definitely did not belong on tv.
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boske
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby boske » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:32 pm

judasbooth wrote:Well, I've only been here a month, but I think it's time to take my leave. I've said pretty much all I have to say about the show, and I think it's time to move on.

I would like to extend my thanks, not only to my fellow Profoundly Disappointed, but also to those posters who could genuinely loved the show. There have been a handful of exceptions, but I found them almost always polite, fair-minded, engaging and considered in their defence. They prevented this thread from descending into an echo chamber of discontent, and their willingness to engage in debate, in turn, helped me sharpen and clearly define my own criticisms. Perhaps if Lynch had had interlocutors of an similar calibre, we would have witnessed and entirely different Twin Peaks.

Special thanks to all the posters, but especially to Gazebo, ABR, Dreamy Audrey, Gabriel, boske, David Locke, wafer, bookworm, sylvia_north, venus, and anyone else who I may have forgotten. And a special shout-out to the illustrious founder of this thread, misstwrt. This thread has more creativity, wit style and imagination than any Twin Peaks reboot.

Likewise judasbooth, thank you for these great posts, both yours and everybody else's that you have mentioned, they really captured the essence of what was troubling me in words I could not have expressed as eloquently. Also, best regardx to those that have given up a few weeks or months ago and yet were regular here until then. And finally a big kudos to our illustrious founder misstwrt indeed! You did not know what you started back then, and here we are! The finest thread! Godspeed!
AnotherBlueRoseCase
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby AnotherBlueRoseCase » Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:34 pm

boske wrote:
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:
boske wrote:I think we really need to see the original script, I simply do not believe that most of these scenes are there. I agree with you by the way 100%.


And the notes scribbled on beermats, napkins and the like.

BASE 18-PART STRUCTURE ON ULYSSES.
INFORM AUDIENCE WOMEN 40+ = HAGS.
INFORM AUDIENCE AM STILL HARD U-KNOW-WHERE.

Voilà! https://www.reddit.com/r/twinpeaks/comments/6pm5kd/s3e14_the_brief_shot_of_the_twin_peaks_script_in/


MONICA B LAUGHED @ PISS STAIN ON MY PANTS. HAVE OFFICE HOTTIE TURNED ON @ DOUGIE PISSING PANTS?
STILL NO FUNDING 4 TM FLICK. HUMANS = VERMIN BOZOS HAGS SLUTS DEGRADE + KILL THEM ALL
LOG DREAMILY CIRCLING TOILET PAN FOR 44 MINS = ELECTRON/PLANET/GALAXY/THESE SPINNING WALLSSTOPTELLINGMEIMAGENIUSITMAKESMEHATEYOUEVENMOREOHCHRISTPLEASESOMEONEHELPME (S4 FINALE)
Lynch on Trump, mid-2018: "He could go down as one of the greatest presidents in history."

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