Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

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sylvia_north
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby sylvia_north » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:33 am

Go watch CSI then if you don't want to get on the Kool Aid spaceship lol (sorry was just reading the comments on that Deadline article)

Yeah his delivery of that line is like a molesty grandpa; I gagged.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Venus » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:38 am

wxray wrote:
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:
wxray wrote:I edited out your post simply to save space. It is duplicated a few times above. Basically, I agree with all of it.

Set that aside against too much Lynch screen time with him frolicking with one of his muses (Christa), goofing around with the French woman, and making side comments about his (oh, I mean GORDON made them) man hood, and I'm seriously disturbed.


Hi wxray.

I remember you were the first person I debated in this thread. IIRC you've travelled a bit from your early near neutrality.

Lynch has lost the plot, mate. Somebody get the old guy off the stage. He's tainting himself as a man and artist, his cast, co-creatives, audience, critics, his early masterpieces and his legacy.

That's the downside. The upside is he's given us lots of sentences we never thought we'd type.


Let's just say this has been a "journey" for me too. I've had my ups and downs. This ultimately ended for me on a big old down. A week hasn't helped either. I'm seeing all these theories and whatever. Doesn't help. There was simply too much wrong with this. I think I need to admit it in public: "I'm wxray, and I'm Profoundly Disappointed."


We welcome you with open arms wxray and an open heart :)

I'm a week along the line and I'm still intrigued by the last two episodes. For me they were in a different realm to the rest of the series which I can just dismiss out of hand in my view of it all. The last two episodes were on a much higher level and actually engaged me so I'm glad I stuck around to watch them after the shed loads of disappointment previously. That doesn't mean I liked the ending though and am profoundly disappointed they basically repeated the end of ep 29 again (I meant the disappointment of being left hanging rather than the storyline) but if that is it forever, it's a shame that some profound sense of peace could not have been given to the characters and some of the viewers. I got that from the end of FWWM, one of the best and most powerful scenes to have ever made it to the big screen. Bittersweet is fine for an ending but shifting discomfort, pain, despair and an empty void....not really my cup of tea for an ending. It perfectly set itself up for a season 4 that might actually provide some engaging storytelling if they followed, imo, the example of 17/18. But it's not going to happen. So this is it. This is where we have been left. Abandoned in the street with a faltering and doubting Coop (or whoever he is) and a long gone Miss Palmer. Never to be fully resolved in any half way, or only so in our minds.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby sylvia_north » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:48 am

I agree, Venus. It's a interesting short film, or two short films with a slight overlap meant as companion pieces for Return. I want to think it out for myself for about a year (something else Kyle said in that interview today, give it at least a year) and definitely read Final Dossier before dismissing it. As the finale for TR, 17/18 sucked, just as TR sucked as a proper season 3 of TP.
** Disclaimer : I thought FWWM did not suck, btw, as a prequel to TP because it fit with the mood of the Diary that preceded it and it was Laura's secret world, and also it had zero throwaway scenes. All the missing pieces were brilliant too and could have been included. It showed deep love for the story.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Venus » Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:53 am

wxray wrote:
Venus wrote:Ah too many goodbyes. So sad :cry: It doesn't have to be goodbye ABRC and Gabriel. Just au revoir for the moment you lovely people :)

PS did Cole really say that line about his bits? Which episode and scene was that in because I missed it! :lol:


First minute of Part 17:

Albert: You've gone soft in your old age.
Gordon: What?
Albert: I SAID, YOU'VE GONE SOFT IN YOUR OLD AGE.
Gordon: Not where it counts, buddy.

It is innuendo, not an exact description of his bits.

And for some reason, it bothered me, sadly. The other graphic sex, use of the c--t word, etc. didn't bother me at all. I found this line unfunny and kind of creepy.


Lol I just rewatched it. By the way he delivers the line he could have been talking about anything about himself (his courage, his nerve) but it's Tammy's reaction that says it's about what we think it is. I know she is an appalling actress but he left it in the final edit so it says it must have been on purpose. I think it was an attempt at comedy but the delivery of the line almost seemed like he was embarrassed by it. Very glad it wasn't a description of his bits!
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby wxray » Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:06 am

Venus wrote:Lol I just rewatched it. By the way he delivers the line he could have been talking about anything about himself (his courage, his nerve) but it's Tammy's reaction that says it's about what we think it is. I know she is an appalling actress but he left it in the final edit so it says it must have been on purpose. I think it was an attempt at comedy but the delivery of the line almost seemed like he was embarrassed by it. Very glad it wasn't a description of his bits!

If it were about courage or nerve, he would have shot the tulpa. This is huge, someone was trying to kill them. He went soft here, Albert was right. You gotta kill in self defense. This was when it really counted.

So, "not where it counts" only leaves the innuendo meaning. There is really no ambiguity about what Cole is talking about.
Last edited by wxray on Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby sylvia_north » Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:06 am

Venus wrote:[ It perfectly set itself up for a season 4 that might actually provide some engaging storytelling if they followed, imo, the example of 17/18. But it's not going to happen. So this is it. This is where we have been left. Abandoned in the street with a faltering and doubting Coop (or whoever he is) and a long gone Miss Palmer. Never to be fully resolved in any half way, or only so in our minds.


That's what someone who saw the scene being filmed said, that it could be a cliffhanger of an episode or would have to mean a season 4 if it was the end of the season.. https://medium.com/@frahm9/i-have-colle ... c3e468b871 Screaming at the Palmer house and the TMZ video is what I remembered, so it's funny the ending was spoiled for anyone looking, so much for keeping the mystery alive.
Last edited by sylvia_north on Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby douglasb » Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:08 am

The response to FWWM has often been discussed by those championing TR, but surely the obvious thing to take away from that episode is that FWWM was hated by the critics at the time but has been subsequently re-evaluated. Now TR has been lauded by critics so...
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Shloogorgh » Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:46 am

I think I'm finally coming to terms with the fact that I am profoundly disappointed. I've been withholding judgement until I saw the completed run, because although the Return hasn't resonated with me emotionally, there have been plenty of scenes that had interesting setups. There's still material that works in isolation for me, like others have said as a series of vignettes, but as a completed whole I find it less than the sum of its parts. I'm not even mad about the ending, episode 18 had more atmosphere than most of what proceeded it. A lot of it comes down to the first half of episode 17. I felt betrayed watching the Freddy/BOB fight. I felt underwhelmed by the machinations of the plot. It all came down to coldly assembling the pieces in the Sheriff Station, so that everyone could perform their scripted function, but with no life behind it. Similar to all the exposition dumps we've been getting all season, where mythology is spewed out in a disconnected way.

I wish Lynch and Frost had just made a completely unrelated series instead of trying to shoehorn Twin Peaks into this mess.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Bookworm » Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:41 am

Special thanks to all the posters, but especially to Gazebo, ABR, Dreamy Audrey, Gabriel, boske, David Locke, wafer, bookworm, sylvia_north, venus, and anyone else who I may have forgotten. And a special shout-out to the illustrious founder of this thread, misstwrt. This thread has more creativity, wit style and imagination than any Twin Peaks reboot.

I'm just going to add one last comment and then bow out and move on.

Firstly, Mr.C was my favorite character from the Return. He was badass and I loved his stoic and "not giving a damn" pause. That why I'm so angered by the totally anti climatic way he was send off. I waited 17 episode, I sited throughout all the Dougie's nonsense because I hoped the meeting between Copper and Mr.C would be paying. And what did I get? Lucy putting a bullet trough his head and voila. Cooper was utterly useless in his downfall. All he did was put the ring on his finger. Wow, how stunning. So yes, I feel cheated. I wanted Coop and his Doppelganger to meet face to face, mano a Doppio. I wanted for Coop to understand that Mr.C was an indivisible part of himself and accept it. For them to finally merge in a complete Cooper, Mr.C balancing Cooper lightness and Cooper balancing Mr.C darkness. Sorry to have had expectations.

Mr.C deserved better. And I actually felt bad for him, while he was burning in the Black Lodge.

So that is, it was my last post on this forum. I don't feel like talking about the Return anymore. Actually I don't fell like talking about it ever again.

And to quote the great judasbooth himself

Thanks to all the posters, but especially to Gazebo, ABR, Dreamy Audrey, Gabriel, boske, David Locke, wafer, sylvia_north, venus, and anyone else who I may have forgotten. And a special shout-out to the illustrious founder of this thread, misstwrt. This thread has more creativity, wit style and imagination than any Twin Peaks reboot.


It was a pleasure to share with you all guys ad gals. And yes I've seen better ideas and creativity there than in the whole so called masterfully done Return.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby wxray » Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:59 am

American football and ice hockey season are starting, and there is plenty to watch, so I'll be fading away here too. It was a fun summer diversion. Some brilliant vignettes, for sure. Overall. Blah.

One last thing. I read on the other thread about Diane and Marjorie Cameron. Wow, that last sex scene makes sense now (after I read up on her via Wikipedia). Even explains the black egg thing. Should I be wowed and awed that Lynch and Frost have done such a wonderful thing to introduce sex majick into the story and make this huge connection that timelines have interwoven in some wonderful way?

No, I am not.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Manwith » Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:29 am

AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:A suggestion for anyone who doesn’t have a problem with this artistically or ethically.


I'm fine with you disliking the show, but Laura Palmer isn't real, she's just an actress playing make pretend. So I don't really see the argument that having the make pretend get campy or silly is unethical. If you want to say it's bad art you are entitled to your opinion, I just don't see how it's unethical.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby mlsstwrt » Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:33 am

Thank you Bookworm! It's been great having you part of this thread.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Venus » Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:48 am

sylvia_north wrote:I agree, Venus. It's a interesting short film, or two short films with a slight overlap meant as companion pieces for Return. I want to think it out for myself for about a year (something else Kyle said in that interview today, give it at least a year) and definitely read Final Dossier before dismissing it. As the finale for TR, 17/18 sucked, just as TR sucked as a proper season 3 of TP.
** Disclaimer : I thought FWWM did not suck, btw, as a prequel to TP because it fit with the mood of the Diary that preceded it and it was Laura's secret world, and also it had zero throwaway scenes. All the missing pieces were brilliant too and could have been included. It showed deep love for the story.


Oh my gosh, a year? Do you have a link to that interview? Yes I feel like I may get the final dossier though I've only part read the first book as I actually found it quite boring in places and difficult to get into. By what I've heard, the inconsistencies would have driven me up the wall too. Look at us optimists saying we'll look at the Final Dossier before dismissing it. I enjoyed the last two episodes for what they were rather than the point they took us to in the story, if that makes sense at all.

PS take care Bookworm :)
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby IcedOver » Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:07 am

I don't know why people are complaining about Cole's "not gone soft" line. That was pretty amusing. It was also funny Lynch holding a gun in this, and waving it around in Part 11. The scenes with that group were pretty fun, mostly hanging out in some hotel in SD, eating doughnuts, drinking coffee, wine, or liquor, doing lazy detective work.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby lotjx2 » Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:08 am

wxray wrote:American football and ice hockey season are starting, and there is plenty to watch, so I'll be fading away here too. It was a fun summer diversion. Some brilliant vignettes, for sure. Overall. Blah.

One last thing. I read on the other thread about Diane and Marjorie Cameron. Wow, that last sex scene makes sense now (after I read up on her via Wikipedia). Even explains the black egg thing. Should I be wowed and awed that Lynch and Frost have done such a wonderful thing to introduce sex majick into the story and make this huge connection that timelines have interwoven in some wonderful way?

No, I am not.


Sex majik is the best majik. A young woman named Audrey checked me out at Walmart today and I felt an intense need to save her, because no one else will. After a week of seeing theories, watching after shows and even coming up with the Multiverse timelines, I still don't know how to feel. Like I am glad, we got it, but I am a bit disappointed with the ending. I would understand the ending if I thought the show didn't have enough time to wrap everything up. Yet, he had 18 episodes, a full season to do this thing. So, I am a bit ticked we didn't get an ending to all if not most of the storylines. Instead we got a continuation to almost everything minus Evil Dale and Ed/Norma. Sure, the Dougie thing is over, but no one asked for it, wanted it or even cared. So, Lynch gets zero credit for that. I just wish we would have at least gotten an end that didn't needless feel like a fuck you.

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