Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

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LateReg
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby LateReg » Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:19 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
LateReg wrote:I like 17 and 18, but I like 18 a lot more as an ending. Despite its ambiguity, it's 18 that really brought all the themes together and tied everything into a neat little bow, relatively speaking. One major theme is identity, and the sex scene is a huge part of driving that home. As Reindeer notes, I think the sex scene is a brilliantly disturbing thing. I don't know that it would have been more effective with Audrey or Annie, because while we the viewer know them, Cooper has known Diane for a far longer period of time than either Audrey (a month?) or Annie (a week?) has. Diane knows him better than anyone, which is something that The Return focused on throughout its 18 hours, and that's part of what makes that scene so effective, that the person who knows him best either can't recognize him or is seeing that he's a mix of all the good and bad things she's blocked out and is literally trying to block out as her trauma (another focal point) comes flooding back. Furthermore, the meta-element of McLachlan reteaming with Dern, the young lovers from Blue Velvet explicitly referenced by Lynch in the making of feature, is a consummation 30 years in the making. From my point of view, that contributes to the scene's power.


All good points. I think the counterargument for the scene being potentially more effective with Audrey is that the audience has way more history with her, even if Cooper doesn’t. While Cooper may have a far longer history with Diane, we just met her as a character whereas we’ve been invested in Audrey and her friendship with Dale for 25 years. And I think her youth when Cooper raped her and robbed her of her innocence makes that the more heinous and poignant of the two violations. Personally, I think the scene would have probably been even more horrifying with Audrey. In a way, that might have been too painful a scene for the audience. But you make good points about the scene as it stands, and I certainly think it works terrifically for those reasons. I definitely think it would be way less meaningful with Annie because we don’t have any reason to believe Cooper ever violated her, so that would defeat a large part of the scene’s effectiveness.


Re: Audrey, that's very true. The problem for me would be getting her there. The Return was very realistic in how certain characters just aren't as meaningful to the central storyline, so Diane is the only one who makes sense for Cooper to travel through time/space with. There would be no reason for that same exact scenario to occur with Audrey, other than that she is who the audience identifies with, which is not a good reason, imo. Of course, they could have focused on Audrey more throughout, on her violation at the hands of Cooper similar to Diane's storyline, and then eventually got there. But it wouldn't be as simple as replacing Diane with Audrey, because it HAD to be Diane that Albert went to find at that bar, since she is the one who knows Cooper best. A sex scene with Audrey could have occurred, but I think it would have had to have been arrived at through different plotting.

All that said...I'm still not entirely certain we ever truly saw Diane, which further complicates this discussion. We saw her tulpa. We saw a version of Diane who looked like the black lodge/red room. I love this little talked about aspect of the series, that we finally meet Diane and yet still maybe don't truly meet her after all. She still remains a mystery and, Missing Pieces scene not withstanding, may yet be some figment of Cooper's imagination or merely representative of someone who he treats as existent only to respond to his beck and call.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:41 am

LateReg wrote:Re: Audrey, that's very true. The problem for me would be getting her there. The Return was very realistic in how certain characters just aren't as meaningful to the central storyline, so Diane is the only one who makes sense for Cooper to travel through time/space with. There would be no reason for that same exact scenario to occur with Audrey, other than that she is who the audience identifies with, which is not a good reason, imo. Of course, they could have focused on Audrey more throughout, on her violation at the hands of Cooper similar to Diane's storyline, and then eventually got there. But it wouldn't be as simple as replacing Diane with Audrey, because it HAD to be Diane that Albert went to find at that bar, since she is the one who knows Cooper best. A sex scene with Audrey could have occurred, but I think it would have had to have been arrived at through different plotting.


Oh, absolutely. And I think L/F would have found an incredibly compelling way to tell that very different version of the story, if they’d wanted to. I’d hate to lose the Audrey material we did get, which I love (although I see Peyton’s point that its tangential nature — like some of the Jacoby and Ben material, for instance — might pull certain viewers out of the work by drawing attention to the fact that, from a production standpoint, the actors were clearly only available for a couple of days and almost appear bolted down to one set, like a recurring SNL sketch). The Audrey stuff works so beautifully as its own little chamber piece and also thematically as a puzzle piece in the whole work, but I wouldn’t mind spending 18 hours in an alternate timeline where I could see what L/F would do with a version of TR that gives Audrey more of a spotlight in the central plot. I would spend a lot of money to read the original script, for a lot of reasons, but #1 among them might be to see what L/F originally planned for Audrey. We got hints from TFD, but would her story just have been a sidebar like many of the original series characters, a check-in just to see her being robbed and thrown around like a ragdoll by her son, perhaps doing Norma and Shelly’s hair at her salon? Or would she have had some form of more active role in Cooper’s journey, even possibly from a distance? I’m inclined to think it’s the former (if only due to Fenn’s reaction to the material), but I’d still love to know for sure.

All that said...I'm still not entirely certain we ever truly saw Diane, which further complicates this discussion. We saw her tulpa. We saw a version of Diane who looked like the black lodge/red room. I love this little talked about aspect of the series, that we finally meet Diane and yet still maybe don't truly meet her after all. She still remains a mystery and, Missing Pieces scene not withstanding, may yet be some figment of Cooper's imagination or merely representative of someone who he treats as existent only to respond to his beck and call.


I think we’ve discussed this before, but I’ll just say that I completely agree. Diane’s possible “non-ex-is-tent” nature and what her character says about fragmented identity and Cooper’s issues with women might be the most fascinating aspect of the season for me.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Venus » Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:25 pm

Fall_of_Sophia wrote:
Kilmoore wrote:
mtwentz wrote:Season 3 can be open to criticism, especially with deliberate choices that were made story wise. But it's hard to argue that Lynch did not break boundaries once again with some of the most visually and auditorily compelling scenes on television ever. The Purple Room, the 'White Lodge', the Black Lodge, the Evolution of the Arm, Buella's place, Gotta Light, etc.

Then he should have painted a picture, or done short video clips of this art. The complete incoherence of the story and empty characters just point out how pretentious and futile this "art" is. What people wanted was a Twin Peaks story, but Lynch took the money and ran, putting out a couple of bits of artistic vision in a hollow shell.



Who cares what the "people" want?


Me, because I am a 'person' and one of the viewers of the show but I think you have to be careful not to broad stroke everyone with one brush under 'people'. Everyone wanted something different or didn't know what they wanted and were open to it. Then it was delivered and it was up to the individual to see if it sat well with them. Unfortunately it didn't with me and I have to agree with some of the above comments that it was incoherent, empty and hollow. Even with hindsight all these months on my opinion hasn't changed on it, and in a way I hoped it would. Occasionally I drop in here and read some of the posts in the hope it will change my mind and my love of the original will turn into love for the third series, but nope. Purely from my perspective I'm very sad about that. I've had no desire to revisit TP3 and this time last year I thought by now I'd have the DVD's and be rewatching them constantly. Am still profoundly disappointed so still in the correct thread :wink:
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Audrey Horne » Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:59 pm

That’s bizarre that it would be hard to see how Audrey would be there at the end, especially since the structure of the story had flip Cooper father her child out of rape, and that her surprise moment before the finale was revealing that she too was sidelined in some alternate reality prison for twenty five years like Cooper. In essence, she still remained the same and opposite with Laura like in the original series before it fell apart. I thought the Diane stuff worked great in episode 16 with her demise because it showed what could happen to one of our beloved original characters. Silly me though I thought Audrey’s cliffhanger was a setup for the finale because it revealed ...oh, her situation is much more dangerous than we thought and the same thing could happen to her that happened to Diane.

But that could be simply because of the changed storyline for her and tweaking it... but still remains utterly odd then that they always had the Richard Horne character. For me, the only thing I can think of why Lynch thought Diane and Coooer coming together in this world is because of the meta factor of Blue Velvet Dern and MacLachlan... but even then the stronger metaness if that recall is Isabella and Kyle.

In any case, having watched some of the series again, the whole thing doesn’t work for me on any level of storytelling. Only moments of beautiful filmmaking. But utterly happy for a lot of the people involved.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby LateReg » Sat Mar 31, 2018 5:37 pm

Audrey Horne wrote:That’s bizarre that it would be hard to see how Audrey would be there at the end, especially since the structure of the story had flip Cooper father her child out of rape, and that her surprise moment before the finale was revealing that she too was sidelined in some alternate reality prison for twenty five years like Cooper. In essence, she still remained the same and opposite with Laura like in the original series before it fell apart. I thought the Diane stuff worked great in episode 16 with her demise because it showed what could happen to one of our beloved original characters. Silly me though I thought Audrey’s cliffhanger was a setup for the finale because it revealed ...oh, her situation is much more dangerous than we thought and the same thing could happen to her that happened to Diane.

But that could be simply because of the changed storyline for her and tweaking it... but still remains utterly odd then that they always had the Richard Horne character. For me, the only thing I can think of why Lynch thought Diane and Coooer coming together in this world is because of the meta factor of Blue Velvet Dern and MacLachlan... but even then the stronger metaness if that recall is Isabella and Kyle.


Before the series started there was plenty of talk about how integral the character of Audrey actually was. She's arguably the second most popular character behind Cooper, and so some fans thought she would play a vital role, with her biggest fans (on twitter, at least) holding out hope that she'd be romantically entangled with Cooper. Others thought she wasn't actually all that important, and that of course there was no chance of her being with Cooper. I was always in the latter camp, and before the series aired always thought it was logical that 25 years later Audrey would not matter. Setting Audrey aside for a moment, it is worth noting that that is how Lynch/Frost treated most of the returning non-law enforcement characters, as though they didn't matter to the central storyline. 25 years later, it's only logical that that would be the case.

Now, what you said up above makes sense to me about the structure of the show. Audrey very well could have been standing outside those red curtains instead of Diane, or Cooper may have had to save her, or perhaps they had to save each other. She might have been one of the two birds that required one stone. But even so, while the show was airing and Part 16 ended I still never expected that Audrey would play a vital role. Even though DoppelCooper raped her and she birthed his child, and even though she's trapped in some sort of unspecified limbo, I never expected her to play an important role in the last two parts (I did expect to see her again, though). I didn't expect that because once again, Cooper only knew Audrey for 30 or so days 25 years ago. For that reason it makes no sense whatsoever that she would play a vital role in a story about the real Cooper. However, the way it would make sense to me that she would be the one to cross over with him is if we were to believe, as it is said in the making of feature, that for Cooper no time had passed at all. It would then make sense that his feelings would pick up where they left off. But if no time had passed at all, the person he'd be thinking about more than Audrey is Annie, so in that case shouldn't Annie be there instead of Audrey? Unless, going off of your reading of the structure of the show, he feels guilty for his Doppel's actions and must rescue Audrey for that reason. That scenario works even better if the entire thing is thought of as taking place in the mind in order to achieve inner peace, which we must remember is a possibility that skewers any literal reading of the show; in this reading, Richard Horne may just be another version of Cooper or another fragment of his psyche. Another thing to consider is that if Cooper did indeed reset time and prevent Laura's death, it is possible that Audrey never ended up in limbo because Cooper himself never met her, and therefore Audrey would not even be an option. Pure speculation, of course.

Logically, I maintain that Diane makes the most and possibly only sense to accompany Cooper on his journey and especially to engage in that disturbing, layered sex scene. Audrey makes sense because viewers know her; Diane makes sense because Cooper knows her. The Return operates according to the latter principle. So Diane made the most sense as the person Albert had to track down at the bar because she knows Cooper best. She knows him best because of the years they worked together, and for the past 25 years fans wondered what the extent of their relationship was. It is revealed in The Return that they did share feelings for one another. DoppelCooper raped both Diane and Audrey, acting on impulses that Cooper himself suppressed, so both would be likely candidates based on what we see in the show to reenact the pain of their sexual encounter, but the real Cooper has known and cared for Diane for a far longer period of time and so their coupling is more realistic and the scene is more powerful because of how well Diane thought she knew him. But I admit that an Audrey scene would be plenty powerful because we know her better than we know Diane, and because in the context of The Return she would be reuniting with the father of her child. But once again, maybe that's not really Diane since she's dressed like the Red Room. Maybe she's just supposed to represent some facet of Cooper's psychology and still remains unseen.

All in all, I think Audrey playing a major role in the finale would have veered closer to fan service than most of the creative decisions Lynch/Frost made; while I think it could have worked I assume that Lynch/Frost immediately discounted the idea because it was either too obvious or too unrealistic according to their 25 years later approach. To me, placing Audrey in Diane's role would be the equivalent of if the entirety of Part 18 would have showed a shinier, happier Twin Peaks in which Laura was alive leading a happy life along with the rest of the town. It would have been too expected, less open to interpretation and in the end less fulfilling.

I also disagree about Isabella Rossellini making a greater meta-impact. Sandy in Blue Velvet was such a pure character, and her relationship with Jeffrey was corrupted by his duplicitous perversity, which is a direct mirror of what's happening in The Return; we never see them get together sexually in Blue Velvet, so their sex scene in The Return is like the consummation of what you'd hope ended up being a pure relationship, a long time coming. Plus, I always think of Dern and MacLachlan as the couple, not Rossellini and MacLachlan.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:20 pm

Rossellini would have made for an unwieldy amount of “meta” layers due to her relationship with DKL. If anything, she could have been another in Gordon’s continuing series of “Italian actress” dreams. ;)

A lot of the points LateReg is making seem to come down to the battle between reality and narrative, the always-present struggle of any thoughtful storyteller. How much should an author embrace believability at the expense of telling the kind of structured story audiences expect? I would argue that TP:TR addresses this struggle in a novel and interesting fashion, as LateReg alludes. Rather than trying to bring the old crew back together in some overarching plot, the show simply checks in on many of the old characters, not particularly concerned whether they happen to be doing anything interesting on these specific days or not (watching a character paint shovels for several minutes is the epitome of this approach). And personally, I find that approach refreshing and really interesting. From that “realism”-based perspective, sure, focusing on Diane over Audrey makes sense because Cooper as a character probably would. That’s one of the interesting things about revisiting Dale Cooper after all these years and really diving into him: we feel like we knew him inside out on the original series, but he lived 35 years of life before we spent just one month with him on the original show. We hardly scratched the surface back then.

However, on some level, we do crave narrative cohesion in a traditional “setup-and-payoff” sense. Even DKL’s most abstract films tend to function on this level. The original show built up the Cooper/Audrey friendship as a central element before proceeding to ignore it for off-screen personnel reasons that had nothing to do with an adherence to either reality or narrative. And that’s a frustrating element of the original series that will always haunt the franchise to an extent. And no, I did not want to see Cooper bang a high school student, but I did want to see their charming friendship continue, or at least be ended in a meaningful way rather than totally ignored.

But that’s how things went. And the franchise moved beyond that early period, and after some awkward growing pains, reached new heights with Episode 29 and FWWM. When S3 was announced, I fully and enthusiastically expected E29 and FWWM to be the jumping-off point. The Cooper/Audrey dynamic was so far in the rear-view mirror that, like LateReg, I had no expectation that it would play any role in the new show. DKL doesn’t do fan service, and the franchise had evolved.

And yet, in a supreme act of anti-fan service, L/F DID revisit the Cooper-Audrey dynamic, for a few seconds’ worth of casual exposition explaining that some version of Cooper raped Audrey. And IMO that storytelling choice, if you’re going to go there, needs to be justified. As much as I really love the Audrey/Charlie scenes and enjoy analyzing the ways they tie into Diane and Cooper’s arcs and the overarching themes and mythology, I’m not entirely sure that TP:TR invested quite enough shoe leather in justifying the narrative decision to subject Audrey’s character to such a tragic turn. Even accepting that the show is from Dale’s perspective and Diane was a bigger presence in his life, we don’t ever see him give a single thought to Audrey at any point over the course of the 18 hours. What’s the point of telling us that his doppel raped a beloved character if he never directly confronts his culpability in that specific act? I’m not saying I needed to see him feel guilty or any particular way about it, but it would have been nice to at least have him think about it for a second.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby LateReg » Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:28 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:And yet, in a supreme act of anti-fan service, L/F DID revisit the Cooper-Audrey dynamic, for a few seconds’ worth of casual exposition explaining that some version of Cooper raped Audrey. And IMO that storytelling choice, if you’re going to go there, needs to be justified. As much as I really love the Audrey/Charlie scenes and enjoy analyzing the ways they tie into Diane and Cooper’s arcs and the overarching themes and mythology, I’m not entirely sure that TP:TR invested quite enough shoe leather in justifying the narrative decision to subject Audrey’s character to such a tragic turn. Even accepting that the show is from Dale’s perspective and Diane was a bigger presence in his life, we don’t ever see him give a single thought to Audrey at any point over the course of the 18 hours. What’s the point of telling us that his doppel raped a beloved character if he never directly confronts his culpability in that specific act? I’m not saying I needed to see him feel guilty or any particular way about it, but it would have been nice to at least have him think about it for a second.


I can understand that. I love it how it is though; as you point out, we get what we need through the Diane mirror and I'm fine with Audrey's part of the story (her rape) being more about Mr. C and what it says about Cooper's desires than it is about Audrey. It seems like a lot of the abuse goes unaddressed. That's certainly a controversial part of The Return. To me, what's missing is just as important as what's there in determining what Lynch/Frost are getting at. You ask "What's the point of telling us that his doppel raped a beloved character if he never directly confronts his culpability in that specific act?" And I feel like that question is also the answer to that question. Perhaps the point is that Cooper is so focused on Laura and his hero quest that he's not thinking of any one else. That he's integrating/accepting his shadow self in Odessa and therefore accepting culpability (without expressing specific guilt) but is still "far away" from true enlightenment. Or, totally separately and less interestingly, perhaps, as I riffed on earlier, Audrey was never actually harmed as a result of Cooper resetting the timeline, which itself would be a form of atonement.

I guess what it comes down to for me is that I love how unapologetic The Return is in all aspects, and how perfectly I feel not addressing Audrey any further fits in to the overall psychological puzzle. The interesting thing is that if The Return is mostly about Cooper's perspective, but is also about multiple perspectives/projections sharing space with one another, then I think Audrey probably gets the 2nd best treatment in that psychological regard. Which is to say that her arc is not only the result of what Cooper did to her and how it reflects on him, but also a lengthy depiction of her own psychology...which is obvious, I know. And something's up with the Roadhouse, whether it's a subconscious environment or a meeting place between two worlds, and if the random conversations there are tied to any one character, it's definitely Audrey. I'm not sure where I'm going with any of that, other than that there's a lot to dissect in Audrey's story and its total lack of closure or connection to any of the other characters (including the good Cooper) seems very purposeful and just right to me.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby bosguy1981 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:23 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:The Audrey stuff works so beautifully as its own little chamber piece and also thematically as a puzzle piece in the whole work, but I wouldn’t mind spending 18 hours in an alternate timeline where I could see what L/F would do with a version of TR that gives Audrey more of a spotlight in the central plot. I would spend a lot of money to read the original script, for a lot of reasons, but #1 among them might be to see what L/F originally planned for Audrey.


Agreed! I suspect there's zero chance of it ever leaking, let alone getting an official release with their blessing, but how I would love to read it. The only things that I want to read in there more than the original Audrey storyline is whatever had originally been written for the Log Lady and Phillip Jeffries.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:13 pm

LateReg wrote:I guess what it comes down to for me is that I love how unapologetic The Return is in all aspects, and how perfectly I feel not addressing Audrey any further fits in to the overall psychological puzzle. The interesting thing is that if The Return is mostly about Cooper's perspective, but is also about multiple perspectives/projections sharing space with one another, then I think Audrey probably gets the 2nd best treatment in that psychological regard. Which is to say that her arc is not only the result of what Cooper did to her and how it reflects on him, but also a lengthy depiction of her own psychology...which is obvious, I know. And something's up with the Roadhouse, whether it's a subconscious environment or a meeting place between two worlds, and if the random conversations there are tied to any one character, it's definitely Audrey. I'm not sure where I'm going with any of that, other than that there's a lot to dissect in Audrey's story and its total lack of closure or connection to any of the other characters (including the good Cooper) seems very purposeful and just right to me.


I get all that. In a way, it’s sort of similar to the way Lost Highway only allows us to see Renee/Alice through the lens of Fred’s paranoia, with the understanding between director and audience that her femme fatale characterization says a lot more about Fred than about the “real” Renee. DKL is better than almost anyone at immersing the audience in his lead character’s messed-up worldview. But, as you note, TP:TR is a lot more wide-ranging and less laser-focused than Lost Highway or INLAND EMPIRE, where we stay with our main character in pretty much every scene (albeit through varying psychological incarnations), and therefore the storytelling in TR is less directly tied to the main character’s psyche. Some parts of the show seem to function on a literal real-world straightforward level like the original show, whereas others as you say seem to hint at a shared dreamscape. Because of the complex mishmash of reality, dream-psyche and mythology/supernatural stuff, it’s tougher for me to get a read on exactly what L/F were going for some of the time than in DKL’s less sprawling works. (It’s saying something that this show makes INLAND EMPIRE feel comparatively straightforward in comparison!)

That said, it certainly makes sense that Audrey is cordoned off from the rest of the world because Cooper has repressed the memory of his crime, or because Cooper has somehow hidden her away at the Dutchman’s as he did Diane (abusers often find ways to isolate their victims from society at large, making them feel alone and helpless), or Audrey herself has buried this part of her psyche. I just still question whether having one abrupt, casual allusion to the rape was necessarily the best approach to the subject, particularly when dealing with a beloved main character.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Hester Prynne » Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:17 pm

The more time passes, the more I do wish it had been Audrey in Episode 18. - Lots of thoughtful discussion above about the decision to use Diane, and I don't disagree with it, but to me Audrey's character would have been more impactful. I don't know that it's necessarily a choice between reality and narrative or DKL and Frost's desires for the story and fans' desires to see more of a beloved character - I think Audrey would have made just as much sense to the story as Diane, if not more.

If the motel scene had been with Audrey, while it would have been difficult to watch, it would have been all the more devastating and effective in driving the point home that this is not the Cooper we know or the Cooper Audrey remembers and idolized 25 years ago before being assaulted by Mr. C. According to her son and FD, she still held onto a picture of him which suggests she was holding onto the idea of the Cooper she and we once knew. What a horrifying realization for Audrey (and us) after all these years, in whatever limbo she has been in, that the "real" Cooper she was hoping to see again one day wasn't real at all - that the man she fell in love with and the man that raped her are in fact the same people. Also, let's not forget he's supposed to be Richard, the same name as Audrey and Mr. C's son, which suggests Richard is just as much a part of Cooper. I don't think this was one of DKL's name tricks that aren't supposed to mean anything - I think this was intentional.

Also, if you are of the camp that Cooper's hero complex causes him to fail Laura at the end of Ep. 18, this would have been a stunning set-up for the ending.

I almost wonder if Ep. 18 was originally written for Audrey's character, but my guess is the original material aligned more with FD. Hopefully as more time passes, people will start spilling the beans.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby eyeboogers » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:24 am

I think the plot could have worked with Audrey, but I am not sure if Fenn would have been able to deliver the same heart wrenching terror as Laura Dern did.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Audrey Horne » Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:47 pm

I actually thought if it was going to go in this direction, it should have been both Audrey and Diane. Like after he left the Lodge and is in the clearing, it’s Audrey... they go on the car ride. She sees Diane outside the motel. The sex scene changes faces or alternates... then we’d be saying this Richard character possibly invented the two to deal with his marital problems with Linda, speculating for years about the first two seasons being a fantasy..l and in this one Audrey and Diane having similar storylines and even a child ...maybe a coping for the mundane real life Richard’s problems, I probably would’ve complained but it would’ve tied the season together a little bit more.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby NormoftheAndes » Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:53 pm

Audrey Horne wrote:I actually thought if it was going to go in this direction, it should have been both Audrey and Diane. Like after he left the Lodge and is in the clearing, it’s Audrey... they go on the car ride. She sees Diane outside the motel. The sex scene changes faces or alternates... then we’d be saying this Richard character possibly invented the two to deal with his marital problems with Linda, speculating for years about the first two seasons being a fantasy..l and in this one Audrey and Diane having similar storylines and even a child ...maybe a coping for the mundane real life Richard’s problems, I probably would’ve complained but it would’ve tied the season together a little bit more.


I don't understand what you're writing about here, sorry! :shock:
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Hester Prynne » Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:25 pm

Audrey Horne wrote:I actually thought if it was going to go in this direction, it should have been both Audrey and Diane. Like after he left the Lodge and is in the clearing, it’s Audrey... they go on the car ride. She sees Diane outside the motel. The sex scene changes faces or alternates... then we’d be saying this Richard character possibly invented the two to deal with his marital problems with Linda, speculating for years about the first two seasons being a fantasy..l and in this one Audrey and Diane having similar storylines and even a child ...maybe a coping for the mundane real life Richard’s problems, I probably would’ve complained but it would’ve tied the season together a little bit more.


Wow - I really like this idea, and actually, I think you could make the same argument with the way the show actually ended - that Cooper never existed - only Richard. Twin Peaks, Cooper, Mr. C, and Dougie were all just a dream or fragments of Richard's personality. In the same vein, Laura never existed - only Carrie Page. Richard showing up at Carrie's door believing he is Cooper is just a remnant of this dream, just as Carrie's scream is when she recalls the name "Laura" being called. Richard and Carrie have lived inside a dream, the same dream, but they are confused and haven't quite awoken. I think you are onto something.
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Audrey Horne
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Audrey Horne » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:09 pm

Yeah, I kinda thought that was what was happening when he woke up in that hotel room with the Dear John letter... that Lynch and Frost were going to be ambiguous that this was just possibly a Nine to fiver in a mundane marriage possibly having a fever dream or fantasy. Of course leaving it vague and unanswered as to do we live inside a dream, are there two worlds, yada, yada.
God, I love this music. Isn't it too dreamy?

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