Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

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oldforce
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby oldforce » Tue May 30, 2017 2:08 pm

AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:So when posting questions like 'How long would you enthusiasts like the paint-drying scene to be?' I know they're unlikely to receive an answer -- really, they're intended more for the sceptics, to contribute to the discussion and occasionally, as with raindog, to have some fun.

Talking of which, I've been informed on this thread that I don't like S03 because I'm British/Scottish and therefore was hoping for a 'cosy mystery', a moment of surrealism the (former) master himself might appreciate.


The painting scene was 2 minutes and 17 seconds long I think.

You spelled cozy wrong, and I was referring specifically to critical consensus on the US versus the "UK". Seems better received *in general* in the US.
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Gabriel
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Gabriel » Wed May 31, 2017 3:36 am

AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:I've been informed on this thread that I don't like S03 because I'm British/Scottish and therefore was hoping for a 'cosy mystery', a moment of surrealism the (former) master himself might appreciate.


Which is quite amusing given UK mainstream networks were pumping out truly sick, twisted, weird, profane material for many years while the US was still putting Murder, She Wrote out at primetime. If anything, from a UK perspective, US TV has until relatively recently played it safe and risk-averse. Go back to the 80s and even back then stuff like Taggart was really nasty – compulsive viewing though. I suspect they're thinking of the kind of stuff that goes out on Masterpiece Theater, which represents a 'safe' and 'palatable' tourists' view of British television.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Agent Earle » Wed May 31, 2017 8:41 am

Wow, Taggart. Now there's a blast from the past...
Metamorphia
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Metamorphia » Wed May 31, 2017 10:19 am

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
David Locke wrote:"The evolution of the arm..." is too overt already, but then we get right into the redundancy of the tree-thing saying "I am the arm." And then repeating that line that LMFAP had in FWWM.


I thought the Arm's weird, laconic attempt at imitating the "Indian noise" was kinda cool/creepy.

I agree that the Red Room stuff is a bit too on-the-nose this time, but maybe that's so at this point in the show to set certain story points in motion as quickly/efficiently as possible. Honestly, the Red Room is inevitably going to feel a bit more like a "safe space" than it did 25 years ago. I sort of hope we spend more time in bold new Lodge settings like the "mauve room" and don't go back to the Red Room super often.

My only major complaint so far is the pacing of some scenes. I'm a huge fan of DKL's languorous pacing in general -- Episode 8 Waiter and Episode 29 Dell Mibbler are two of my favorite things ever set to film. However, certain scenes feel leaden in a way that's kind of surprising, given DKL's usual incredible feel for pacing/mood. Caveat: I'm talking primarily about the Andy/Lucy stuff, which is just not my thing to begin with. I like the characters in concept -- they're an adorable couple and the actors are exceptionally likeable -- and season 1's weepy/gun-dropping Andy and office-geography-obsessed Lucy are genuinely funny to me. But from Episode 8 onward, the characters do pretty much nothing for me.

That being said, even keeping my bias in mind, the sheriff's station scenes in the new show are so excruciatingly slow that if I didn't know better, I'd think they were cut with the intention of dropping in 6-7 seconds of canned laughter after every line. I'm reminded of a comment DKL made in the Rodley book about how Marx Bros. movies were cut to account for several seconds of theater audience laughter, and the movies therefore feel slow-paced when watched at home. (For the record, I completely disagree with DKL about the Marxes feeling slow-paced.) Slow pacing can definitely be used to great comic effect, as DKL himself has proven, but a "gas" joke doesn't get funnier by letting it hang in the air (no pun intended). The only joy I've gotten out of those scenes is some of Hawk's exasperated reactions. I adore Hawk, but otherwise, I really wish our time in the town of TP could be spent in places other than the sheriff's station. I've loved all the other glimpses we've gotten of the townies, both familiar and new.

Another culprit is the Sonny Jim breakfast scene -- which I love in spite of its dragginess, but it would be stronger if it were tightened. How many shots of Naomi Watts preparing breakfast do we need? It feels like the scene was cut long merely to squeeze in all of the Brubeck piece.

Of course, this is all subjective. I think the "HelloooOOOOoooo" gag so outstays its welcome that it comes full circle and becomes twice as funny (the "rake scene" approach, if there are any Simpsons fans out there). And I wouldn't want to lose a frame of Jacoby and his shovels. But I can definitely understand why others feel that those sequences are self-indulgent. YMMV.


The scenes we've had in Twin Peaks so far feel very Missing Pieces esque. They're nice but pretty throwaway. Feels like the characters are just sitting around, waiting to be written in when the more interesting stuff needs a respite. I can imagine DoppelCoop and Dougie off screen, I can't imagine Andy and Lucy or Ben and Jerry.

I just wish they had a bit more to be doing. I'm sure as it progresses they will, but that's the key limiter on it for now imo.
LateReg
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby LateReg » Wed May 31, 2017 10:31 am

Metamorphia wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:
David Locke wrote:"The evolution of the arm..." is too overt already, but then we get right into the redundancy of the tree-thing saying "I am the arm." And then repeating that line that LMFAP had in FWWM.


I thought the Arm's weird, laconic attempt at imitating the "Indian noise" was kinda cool/creepy.

I agree that the Red Room stuff is a bit too on-the-nose this time, but maybe that's so at this point in the show to set certain story points in motion as quickly/efficiently as possible. Honestly, the Red Room is inevitably going to feel a bit more like a "safe space" than it did 25 years ago. I sort of hope we spend more time in bold new Lodge settings like the "mauve room" and don't go back to the Red Room super often.

My only major complaint so far is the pacing of some scenes. I'm a huge fan of DKL's languorous pacing in general -- Episode 8 Waiter and Episode 29 Dell Mibbler are two of my favorite things ever set to film. However, certain scenes feel leaden in a way that's kind of surprising, given DKL's usual incredible feel for pacing/mood. Caveat: I'm talking primarily about the Andy/Lucy stuff, which is just not my thing to begin with. I like the characters in concept -- they're an adorable couple and the actors are exceptionally likeable -- and season 1's weepy/gun-dropping Andy and office-geography-obsessed Lucy are genuinely funny to me. But from Episode 8 onward, the characters do pretty much nothing for me.

That being said, even keeping my bias in mind, the sheriff's station scenes in the new show are so excruciatingly slow that if I didn't know better, I'd think they were cut with the intention of dropping in 6-7 seconds of canned laughter after every line. I'm reminded of a comment DKL made in the Rodley book about how Marx Bros. movies were cut to account for several seconds of theater audience laughter, and the movies therefore feel slow-paced when watched at home. (For the record, I completely disagree with DKL about the Marxes feeling slow-paced.) Slow pacing can definitely be used to great comic effect, as DKL himself has proven, but a "gas" joke doesn't get funnier by letting it hang in the air (no pun intended). The only joy I've gotten out of those scenes is some of Hawk's exasperated reactions. I adore Hawk, but otherwise, I really wish our time in the town of TP could be spent in places other than the sheriff's station. I've loved all the other glimpses we've gotten of the townies, both familiar and new.

Another culprit is the Sonny Jim breakfast scene -- which I love in spite of its dragginess, but it would be stronger if it were tightened. How many shots of Naomi Watts preparing breakfast do we need? It feels like the scene was cut long merely to squeeze in all of the Brubeck piece.

Of course, this is all subjective. I think the "HelloooOOOOoooo" gag so outstays its welcome that it comes full circle and becomes twice as funny (the "rake scene" approach, if there are any Simpsons fans out there). And I wouldn't want to lose a frame of Jacoby and his shovels. But I can definitely understand why others feel that those sequences are self-indulgent. YMMV.


The scenes we've had in Twin Peaks so far feel very Missing Pieces esque. They're nice but pretty throwaway. Feels like the characters are just sitting around, waiting to be written in when the more interesting stuff needs a respite. I can imagine DoppelCoop and Dougie off screen, I can't imagine Andy and Lucy or Ben and Jerry.

I just wish they had a bit more to be doing. I'm sure as it progresses they will, but that's the key limiter on it for now imo.


I kind of feel like that's the point. There's not much going on in Twin Peaks right now, and the little glimpses they show you are there to show how its seemingly idyllic, standing still, etc. That's why I think Jacoby's shovel scene works so well. No scene in the show better represents how there's apparently not much happening in this small town. I think that's at least partially what you're supposed to get out of that "boring" scene. It works wonders to paint a picture of how these people's lives are moving post-Cooper/Laura Palmer's murder.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby mlsstwrt » Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:36 pm

oldforce wrote:
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:So when posting questions like 'How long would you enthusiasts like the paint-drying scene to be?' I know they're unlikely to receive an answer -- really, they're intended more for the sceptics, to contribute to the discussion and occasionally, as with raindog, to have some fun.

Talking of which, I've been informed on this thread that I don't like S03 because I'm British/Scottish and therefore was hoping for a 'cosy mystery', a moment of surrealism the (former) master himself might appreciate.


The painting scene was 2 minutes and 17 seconds long I think.

You spelled cozy wrong, and I was referring specifically to critical consensus on the US versus the "UK". Seems better received *in general* in the US.


Spelled 'cosy' wrong. Please tell me you're joking. You understand why the language we're using on this board is called 'English' right?
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Gabriel
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Gabriel » Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:22 pm

mlsstwrt wrote:
Spelled 'cosy' wrong. Please tell me you're joking. You understand why the language we're using on this board is called 'English' right?


If misspelling a word wrong is a sign of some kind of retardation in the era of iOS autocorrrect, we're all due a stint of ECT in the nut house!! ;)

Besides, 'cosy' isn't wrong!
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby AnotherBlueRoseCase » Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:08 pm

More Martin Amis comments on late-career Joyce, which sum up my sense of being yanked around to no great purpose by "Twin Peaks: the Return", AKA TV's Finnegans Wake:

"Joyce seemed to be cruising about on all surfaces at once, and maddeningly indulged his trick shots on high-pressure points—his drop smash, his side-spun half-volley lob. Losing early in the French (say), Joyce would be off playing exhibitions in Casablanca with various arthritic legends, and working on his inside-out between the legs forehand dink. … We still talk about Joyce in the pavilion, constantly, the footwork, the flow, the dream backhand, the maybes, the might-have beens, the time he won the Italian with his left hand shackled to his right leg. Then we move on to the great Russian, and the eye strays to the honours board—and Nabokov’s fat wedge of Grand Slams.

"What inhibited Joyce was perhaps introversion. A failure of love for the reader. John Updike is surely right when he says that Nabokov's is essentially an amorous style – it longs to hold diaphanous reality in its hairy arms. But Nabokov wants to embrace his readers too. He comes across as this snorting wizard of hauteur, but he is the dream host, always giving us on our visits his best chair and his best wine. What would Joyce do? Let's think, he would call out vaguely from the kitchen, asking you to wait a couple of hours for the final fermentation of a home-brewed punch made out of grenadine, conger eels and sheep dip."

And maybe even urine, in Lynch's case. That desecration of the Red Room chevrons above fucking slot machines left a real nasty taste in the mouth.
Lynch on Trump, mid-2018: "He could go down as one of the greatest presidents in history."
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Mallard
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Mallard » Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:49 pm

Gabriel wrote:
mlsstwrt wrote:
Spelled 'cosy' wrong. Please tell me you're joking. You understand why the language we're using on this board is called 'English' right?


If misspelling a word wrong is a sign of some kind of retardation in the era of iOS autocorrrect, we're all due a stint of ECT in the nut house!! ;)

Besides, 'cosy' isn't wrong!


I think he was criticising the fact that the previous poster claimed that "cosy" was an incorrect spelling. I believe its a "colour vs color" kind of thing.
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mlsstwrt
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby mlsstwrt » Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:49 am

Mallard wrote:
Gabriel wrote:
mlsstwrt wrote:
Spelled 'cosy' wrong. Please tell me you're joking. You understand why the language we're using on this board is called 'English' right?


If misspelling a word wrong is a sign of some kind of retardation in the era of iOS autocorrrect, we're all due a stint of ECT in the nut house!! ;)

Besides, 'cosy' isn't wrong!


I think he was criticising the fact that the previous poster claimed that "cosy" was an incorrect spelling. I believe its a "colour vs color" kind of thing.


Understood, my comment was directed at whomever said 'cosy' was incorrect. I'm never going to tell an American that it's 'aluminium' not 'aluminum' but it's incredible that an American would tell a Brit that the English spelling is the incorrect one! I know you guys now rule the world but come on it's our language :lol:
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bluefrank
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby bluefrank » Fri Jun 02, 2017 4:12 am

Wow, a whole thread dedicated to hating on the new series. Most of the disappointment will be coming from a lack of understanding of what you're watching. Those seeking instant gratification and all the answers on a plate will be sorely disappointed - and rightly so. Ok then, I'll leave you all to it.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Agent Earle » Fri Jun 02, 2017 4:19 am

bluefrank wrote:Wow, a whole thread dedicated to hating on the new series. Most of the disappointment will be coming from a lack of understanding of what you're watching. Those seeking instant gratification and all the answers on a plate will be sorely disappointed - and rightly so. Ok then, I'll leave you all to it.


You obviously haven't read any of the posts in this thread. Btw, there are plenty of threads available where you can pour out your unconditional love for the new series - oops, MOVIE -, so why not do it there?
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby baxter » Fri Jun 02, 2017 4:54 am

I'm rewatching 1-4 this weekend with my brother who is visiting me in Copenhagen (which has TP posters everywhere by the way). There was a really cool Danish magazine in the newsagent with a great TP special but I can't understand a word of it!

Anyway, I'm intrigued to see what my brother thinks of it. I count myself as happy with the new series, but it is a totally different thing which I don't yet associate much to the old material except via plot threads. If anything, the scenes set in TP feel the least like the old show, because the contrast to the old show is stronger when you are seeing familiar elements.

My brother loves TP (and Lynch) but was initially disappointed with the idea of the return since he felt it might be a step backwards. I suspect he'll love the new show...
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LurkerAtTheThreshold
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby LurkerAtTheThreshold » Fri Jun 02, 2017 4:58 am

bluefrank wrote:Wow, a whole thread dedicated to hating on the new series. Most of the disappointment will be coming from a lack of understanding of what you're watching. Those seeking instant gratification and all the answers on a plate will be sorely disappointed - and rightly so. Ok then, I'll leave you all to it.




This is every thing I don't understand about the pro Season 3 camp. I hesitate to call them the 'pro', because the people I am referring to seem so utterly determined to psychologically destroy anyone who had the faintest dissatisfaction with the new series, they remind me of extreme Trump supporters against so called 'Social justice warriors'.

I have absolutely no problem with the fact that others enjoy this season more than me, why would I? But I just can't understand why the series supporters are so reactionary against people that don't feel the same way, calling them stupid, ignorant, nostalgic and people 'seeking instant gratification'.

In truth, I had a very emotional reaction to the new series, reflectively I can see that my expectations were too high, and I had had too many years to create my own fanfic Season 3 in my mind. I was disappointed, but at the end of the day it's just a television series and doesn't warrant the kind extreme emotional reaction some of us are having. Really, we ought to be grateful we're getting a new series, and ultimately we have to accept what it is now, because it's not going to miraculously turn into something else.

Having had some time to reflect on my own opinions, I will say there seem to be two major currents to the dissatisfaction, and one strain definitely has more validity over the other.

Whilst critics praise this new Season as Lynch's return to glory, and it is cheered at Cannes and universally acknowledged as a masterpiece, part of me still feels the hanging melancholy of my intitial reaction to it. The sentiment that people like me and the other people in this thread who wanted nostalgia and a return to the profoundly odd, but also strongly rooted realism of a detective story slash soap opera parody -- are just boring, low brow populists who want comfort from a series that originally shocked its audience the same way Season 3 has. Well on my heart I disagree, and to the people revering Lynch's Swansong I don't want to denigrate that -- I've always been a fan of Lynch and now that I've accepted what we're getting really is 'pure heroine Lynch' i an enthusiastic about that. I'll reiterate that Twin Peaks wasn't Lynch's masterwork, there were a lot of people that brought charm and substance to the original and to be honest the new series shows more of a lack of outsider influence tha it shows Lynch failing to recreate anything. This series is a natural progression for Lynch, it makes sense -- but that doesn't make it a natural progression for Twin Peaks - it's Lynch commandeering something and altering it to fit his current worldview.

But you know what, that's fine. I actually agree with critics that this is an invalid line of dissatisfaction. Mark Frost and David Lynch have come at this from a fresh perspective, and maybe they have gone all George Lucas on fans, but it's not like Disney has taken over the franchise and turned it on its head. This is how the creators invisioned the series, and we have to accept and embrace that.


But... the other line of criticism which people seem so afraid of, or unwilling to listen to, and which has absolute validity is how the creators really have failed to hit the mark on this. That's how I genuinely feel, and I'm not trying to change the minds of people who like it. Right now there is soooooo much hype, and I think that's great. Like other fans I'm really intrigued as to how it's all going to pan out, it's absolutely amazing we've got this continuation to sub plots that have haunted people's minds for 25 years.

That seems to be driving the optimism, and I think that's great. Other than this thread I'm not really even interesting in discussing the faults of this series with the people who are hyped up right now, because they just aren't interested in listening anyway. But I still affirm, that when this series is over and done, even if the next 14 episodes are the most amazing television anyone has ever seen, people will still look back at these opening episode as a slow, faulted mess.

I actually love the fact, that people who have defended Season two for twenty years, and Fire walk with me in spite of their faults when critics SLAMMED those things, those same critics can't find a single fault in the new season?

You cant accept Josie in the door knob but you can accept Major Briggs head floating through space, Laura Palmer taking off her face and Cooper Flying through space. The special effects in this series are Soooooo bad, so much worse than little Nicky with devil horns floating in a bubble over Andy's head. Helllllloooooo? Those fucking red room montages in the casino? Cooper falling into the mauve balcony is literally the worse piece of special effects in cinema history (and I've been to first year special effects class). Ed Wood could be considered a genius in light of some of the scenes in this new season, then the fact it is genuinely so tedious to watch.

Anyway, there's lots of positives too. I'm really interested to see what's coming. The truth is this is going to be a season highs and lows, even as season two was a series of highs and lows. This one will have much bigger lows, but who knows maybe immense highs aswell.

Ultimately the thing is this is just really stupid sci fi. I can't believe that critics would receive so well something which has garmonbozia as the major focal plotlone, an evil long haired Kyle machlachlan saying 'You're nice and wet'. Somebody travelling through a power socket (sorry I digress, this scen trumps Josie in the door knob by ten thousand)

Anyway, let them eat hate.
I'm glad people are enjoying the series so much they have to write their comments with three exclamation marks;

I'm just so excited!!!! This series surpasses anything that has ever been made!!! Anyone who can't enjoy this is just an idiot who doesn't understand the complexity!!!! Lynch is a genius!!!!
Do you think the arm will collect enough garmonbozia so the gold ball grows into a time field big enough that the eyeless woman will get trapped in the cube and the one armed man will turn into a gnome and there will be ten thousand different realities and everyone name will be dougie then we will cut to the Twin Peaks Sherrif a department where the resurrected Laura Palmer licks a water melon then flies theough a rainbow and becomes Windom earlea doppleganger so that the Bavarian illuminati make flying saucers come and abduct Major Briggs head and put it inside a coffee cup that Kyle Machlachlan and will say 'This coffee used to be damn fine---but now that I'm really old it just Goes straight down into the bedpan. Lol. Rofl. Hawk is an Indian. The only black person in this show is a prostitute but doesn't Agent Tamara Preston have a nice arse' <wink wink>


And now I feel better, and pouring myself a glass of red wine. Cheers therapy group! I'm so happy I found you!! :lol:
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mtwentz
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby mtwentz » Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:25 am

It is not 'universally acknowledged as a masterpiece'. Overall, through, the new Twin Peaks has gotten great critical buzz so far and those of us who are really liking it can understand why. At the same time, I do not know anyone who thinks it's perfect: There are definitely issues many of us see, probably most prominently the lack of Badalamenti music. But there is no such thing as a perfect movie or show or piece of art, so why obsess about the few minor things we don't like?

It's like certain people I meet on cruise ships from time to time- instead of enjoying the fact they are sitting near the pool with drink in hand, they focus on the long line they had to wait in to get on the boat.
"Dougie is COOPER? How the Hell is this!?"

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