Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

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Agent Earle
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Agent Earle » Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:14 pm

That meme has me rollin' on the floor! :D
Welcome, you two!
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N. Needleman
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby N. Needleman » Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:29 pm

Putontheglasses wrote:So far we've been more fascinated by the fan adulation and defensive hostility to anyone who doesn't like S3, way more than the show itself.


Not to become a broken record (too late), as this same phenomenon seems to just keep coming up so very often with users old and new - but as usual, I'm not sure how claiming you've been persecuted for your opinions (in your first post) and are only seeking rational discussion jibes with the now-routine allegation that anyone who likes this season just can't 'admit' to themselves it's bad because it's David Lynch or is simply making excuses 'waiting' for it to get good, followed by an instant meme equating us with Deputy Andy.

To my knowledge no one on the board is spending pages of other threads talking about you guys. Yet in here the rest of us are the constant topic. Either we're in denial and lying to ourselves, or we're bullying you. Where?
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby mtwentz » Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:43 pm

N. Needleman wrote:
Putontheglasses wrote:So far we've been more fascinated by the fan adulation and defensive hostility to anyone who doesn't like S3, way more than the show itself.


Not to become a broken record (too late), as this same phenomenon seems to just keep coming up so very often with users old and new - but as usual, I'm not sure how claiming you've been persecuted for your opinions (in your first post) and are only seeking rational discussion jibes with the now-routine allegation that anyone who likes this season just can't 'admit' to themselves it's bad because it's David Lynch or is simply making excuses 'waiting' for it to get good, followed by an instant meme equating us with Deputy Andy.

To my knowledge no one on the board is spending pages of other threads talking about you guys. Yet in here the rest of us are the constant topic. Either we're in denial and lying to ourselves, or we're bullying you. Where?


I totally concur.
"Dougie is COOPER? How the Hell is this!?"
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Putontheglasses » Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:37 pm

N. Needleman wrote:
Putontheglasses wrote:So far we've been more fascinated by the fan adulation and defensive hostility to anyone who doesn't like S3, way more than the show itself.


Not to become a broken record (too late), as this same phenomenon seems to just keep coming up so very often with users old and new - but as usual, I'm not sure how claiming you've been persecuted for your opinions (in your first post) and are only seeking rational discussion jibes with the now-routine allegation that anyone who likes this season just can't 'admit' to themselves it's bad because it's David Lynch or is simply making excuses 'waiting' for it to get good, followed by an instant meme equating us with Deputy Andy.

To my knowledge no one on the board is spending pages of other threads talking about you guys. Yet in here the rest of us are the constant topic. Either we're in denial and lying to ourselves, or we're bullying you. Where?


Although I'm tempted to take the time to explain and correct the wrong assumptions and logical fallacies in what you said, if I wanted to go round and round with a Lynch devotee looking for an argument, I would go to the Facebook fan page, post something critical, and brace myself for the torches and pitchforks. Maybe the natives are more welcoming to dissent at Dugpa.com (not sure, just got here), but they certainly aren't on the Facebook fan page or Reddit.

I will say that I didn't post the meme or my comment in a positive or main thread right? It wasn't intended to upset the S3 lovers, it was for the people in this thread who are critical and feel that they need to keep their criticism corralled to this thread to avoid vitriol. I made that meme (originally to text my wife for a laugh) after observing a lot of terrible, borderline neurotic behavior from "uber-fans" toward polite, sincere Twin Peaks fans who voiced genuine disappointment with S3.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Metamorphia » Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:03 pm

N. Needleman wrote:
Putontheglasses wrote:So far we've been more fascinated by the fan adulation and defensive hostility to anyone who doesn't like S3, way more than the show itself.


Not to become a broken record (too late), as this same phenomenon seems to just keep coming up so very often with users old and new - but as usual, I'm not sure how claiming you've been persecuted for your opinions (in your first post) and are only seeking rational discussion jibes with the now-routine allegation that anyone who likes this season just can't 'admit' to themselves it's bad because it's David Lynch or is simply making excuses 'waiting' for it to get good, followed by an instant meme equating us with Deputy Andy.

To my knowledge no one on the board is spending pages of other threads talking about you guys. Yet in here the rest of us are the constant topic. Either we're in denial and lying to ourselves, or we're bullying you. Where?


Spot on.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby LurkerAtTheThreshold » Tue Jun 06, 2017 5:19 pm

Putontheglasses wrote:Hi all - I'm one of you (as is my wife of 24 years). We actually discussed Twin Peaks for two hours on our first date.

We're huge fans of the original, read all of the books, and enjoy a lot of Lynch's weirder stuff like Mulholland, Eraserhead, etc. We really enjoyed a lot of the more esoteric elements that came to the focus in season 2, so it's not that the X-files direction of season 3 is a problem for us at all. It's all about the poor execution and the complete lack of magic in season 3, which has already been summed up well here by others (bad acting, pacing, timing, framing, lack of music and witty dialogue, bad writing, little character development, mocking seasons 1-2, etc).

I'm glad to have found this group, because so far the acclaim for S3 by many fans and critics has seemed to us like some disturbing Twilight Zone episode, or Invasion of the Body Snatchers. As in, how can we possibly be watching the same thing?

We have come up with a theory that David Lynch is actually doing this on purpose in an epic, meta act of subversion and dissonance, where the audience effectively becomes part of the art. I'm planning on writing it out in more detail as I get time and the episodes keeping coming. After episode 5, we've stopped expecting things to improve.

One thing we discussed just today that I will mention... what if Lynch never has Coop recover? What if he remains in this same doddering state the entire 18 episodes? How long would it take before even the most die hard Lynch fans give in and admit that something is terribly wrong? Also, if Lynch wasn't involved at all in the project, and it was in this state, would the Lynch fans still be so in love with it?

So far we've been more fascinated by the fan adulation and defensive hostility to anyone who doesn't like S3, way more than the show itself. We were really looking forward to the new season, so this was a big let down. My wife had the premiere on her calendar like it was a holiday (Twin Peaks Day!). She made home made cherry pie, and it was a lovely night before we finished episode two and looked at each other "wearing a sour face". Unlike many uber fans though, our identity isn't tied to our fandom like those who obviously feel personally threatened by anyone dissing the new season. It's a spectacle.

I've attached a meme that I made that I thought you all might enjoy. :)


That meme was hilarious. (Much as I love Andy and empathise with the S3 fans)
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby N. Needleman » Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:40 pm

Putontheglasses wrote:Although I'm tempted to take the time to explain and correct the wrong assumptions and logical fallacies in what you said, if I wanted to go round and round with a Lynch devotee looking for an argument, I would go to the Facebook fan page, post something critical, and brace myself for the torches and pitchforks.


I don't use Facebook. We're not on Facebook. Or Reddit. So I don't know why you expect us to be accountable for those forums.

I will say that I didn't post the meme or my comment in a positive or main thread right? It wasn't intended to upset the S3 lovers, it was for the people in this thread who are critical and feel that they need to keep their criticism corralled to this thread to avoid vitriol.


Where is the vitriol on Dugpa.com? Outside of this thread, I mean.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby dugpa » Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:14 pm

It's OK to be disappointed by or even hate all of or some aspects of Season 3.

Likewise, it is OK to enjoy, love, or be completely obsessed by the new series.

It is NOT OK to mistreat or be total ass hats to other members.

It is NOT OK to use idiotic exclusionary terms like "real fan", "true fan", newbie, or tell other members that they don't get it, require spoon feeding, or are simpletons because they are not enjoying the new series.

Keep it fun or I bring Mr. C into the mix and rumor is he likes himself a good banning.

Thanks.

The Management
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby KillerBOB » Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:23 pm

N. Needleman wrote:
Putontheglasses wrote:Although I'm tempted to take the time to explain and correct the wrong assumptions and logical fallacies in what you said, if I wanted to go round and round with a Lynch devotee looking for an argument, I would go to the Facebook fan page, post something critical, and brace myself for the torches and pitchforks.


I don't use Facebook. We're not on Facebook. Or Reddit. So I don't know why you expect us to be accountable for those forums.


No offense, but I think you're misinterpreting "putontheglasses" here... a bit. He didn't expect anyone here to be accountable for any other forum. That's not what "if I wanted to go round and round with a Lynch devotee looking for an argument, I would go to the Facebook fan page, post something critical, and brace myself for the torches and pitchforks" means in any conceivable sense.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby LurkerAtTheThreshold » Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:28 pm

dugpa wrote:It's OK to be disappointed by or even hate all of or some aspects of Season 3.

Likewise, it is OK to enjoy, love, or be completely obsessed by the new series.

It is NOT OK to mistreat or be total ass hats to other members.

It is NOT OK to use idiotic exclusionary terms like "real fan", "true fan", newbie, or tell other members that they don't get it, require spoon feeding, or are simpletons because they are not enjoying the new series.

Keep it fun or I bring Mr. C into the mix and rumor is he likes himself a good banning.

Thanks.

The Management



Plz just don't call Mr Strawberry
(Joking of course)

Well said-- I wholeheartedly support this sentiment
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Mairzy » Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:06 pm

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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Panapaok » Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:51 am

LurkerAtTheThreshold wrote:Plz just don't call Mr Strawberry
I don't think he's taking calls. :P
This is - excuse me - a damn fine cup of coffee.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Gabriel » Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:36 am

KillerBOB wrote:No offense, but I think you're misinterpreting "putontheglasses" here... a bit. He didn't expect anyone here to be accountable for any other forum. That's not what "if I wanted to go round and round with a Lynch devotee looking for an argument, I would go to the Facebook fan page, post something critical, and brace myself for the torches and pitchforks" means in any conceivable sense.

I had no idea things were so unpleasant out there. That said, some new poster here is trying to report me for my completely fictional, clearly ridiculous 'Further Adventures of Donna's Cardigan' post in the season three merchandise thread! I guess there are fans who take this all terribly seriously; love it or loathe it, surely it's supposed to be fun to discuss it?!
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Twin Peaks Podcast » Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:55 am

Our review of episode 5 is out. Happy to say we're coming around on it finally.

http://twinpeakspodcast.blogspot.ca/2017/06/episode-51-return-part-05-has-been.html
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby sylvia_north » Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:20 am

I keep coming back to this thread because it's more interesting to me than endless wild speculation.

Putontheglasses wrote:
We have come up with a theory that David Lynch is actually doing this on purpose in an epic, meta act of subversion and dissonance, where the audience effectively becomes part of the art. I'm planning on writing it out in more detail as I get time and the episodes keeping coming. After episode 5, we've stopped expecting things to improve.

One thing we discussed just today that I will mention... what if Lynch never has Coop recover? What if he remains in this same doddering state the entire 18 episodes? How long would it take before even the most die hard Lynch fans give in and admit that something is terribly wrong? Also, if Lynch wasn't involved at all in the project, and it was in this state, would the Lynch fans still be so in love with it?


Whether this is the intent, I'd be surprised if it was, it's certainly the outcome! What happens to fans who've been wound up like toys for decades. One thing is for certain, he's not taking us for chumps. Cooper's fate and lodge physics have been meticulously plotted, for better or worse and there is not shortage of puzzling to do. It's a game (cue Cooper saying "Games.) We are drowning in blogs and podcasts talking themselves in circles.



sugarhigh wrote:Naomi Watts, only seen her in 2 films (MD & We Don't Live Here Anymore, loved her in both) but her performance in S3 is just grating. Again, could be intentional.

...

Truman's wife, Candy Clark. I had to walk out of the room, just bad acting.



Try The Painted Veil, so good. Of all my S3 complaints, Naomi is the worst. I want to mute her. I think she's worse than Doris, Candy Clark ruined Man Who Fell to Earth for me. I'd trade one Janey E for 2 Tamara Prestons. Wife trouble that makes Nadine look like June Cleaver. Becky and Stephen were particularly repulsive. Magnificent tits, have some drugs, ok loser. Where's the love, David?


Northman wrote:oh and badalamentis music is gradually returning especially in scenes involving dougiecoop


You're thinking of Johnny Jewel The Flame- Frank 2000 is the Angelo song.

LurkerAtTheThreshold wrote:
Like Dougie's ring turning up in Major Briggs stomach is not something that can ever be made sensical or thoughtful.

It almost feels like Stockholm syndrome, the way I'm opening myself up to Lynch to subsequently mock every character I once held dear, literally shit on their corpses, and insult the viewers intelligence. Then the darkest rapey mysoginy and seething hatred for the world I've ever seen in anything before...



I really don't believe it's Major Briggs. I think it's just fingerprints on bodies at crime scenes that turn out to not be real. But you're right! I don't want to even think about it. Don had a great sense of humor, even so...

KillerBOB wrote:
LurkerAtTheThreshold wrote:Anyone else still feeling profoundly disappointed? I miss that feeling.


The only thing profoundly disappointing to me in the last episode was the return to the Double R diner. It just looked wrong--can't put my finger on why--and, predictably, Lynch chose not to have either country music or Badalamenti jazz playing on the jukebox. No music at all, in fact. Totally lifeless

On the regular disappointment side of things, I also didn't like that Dr. Jacoby had changed so much. I felt it was all very in-character until he uttered his "Amazon acai bullshit" line and started hawking gold-painted shovels for $29.99.


The on-location choice was odd to me because we are so used to the set RR. I'm with you on the feeling of it, but at the same time it and Mike's office feels like North Bend completely, which is to say homely but not in a fantasy world way. Toad is a skinny and super old- huh? I thought that actor was coming back, wtf. <3 my Toadster

mlsstwrt wrote:Does anyone feel that the complexity quotient and ambition in scope of the new series is so high as to be dilutive? The level of complexity in the original Series and FWWM was absolutely right for me, high enough to be beguiling and keep me thinking about the significance of the ring, the Lodge characters, etc but with still enough clarity and focus for the universe to feel coherent.

It feels like there are so many things going on now that Twin Peaks is now more puzzle than mystery.

Edit: I will admit to watching the DougieCoop 'Haloooooooooo' casino compilation on YouTube and finding it both hilarious and captivating. There's probably a lot to fascinate and admire in all of this but I can't connect with it in any meaningful way.


Basically!! And same. Slot zombies are funny, kind of a perfect place to toss Droolcoop. The puzzle challenge is analogous to IE vs MD.

AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:I can’t go there yet. This isn’t just a Twin Peaks well below the standard of the original run and FWWM – this is close to a shambles and that just makes me sad. No way now for it to rescue itself from these five hours. E04 was a drop on E03, and now we have this sharper drop (apart from the music) acknowledged even by many of the enthusiasts, to their credit. The fear has to be how low can it go, not only in the fingernails/blackboard experience of the scenes themselves but also when we step back and look at the wider picture.

Total cast: >90.
Total minutes to date: ~270.
Minutes of wordless close-ups featuring the mysteries of electrical appliances: >10.
Minutes of screentime for black characters who aren’t sex workers; eastern USA, western USA or anywhere in between: 1?. Minutes before this character appeared: 250?
Minutes of screentime for talking-tree-cum-neurones-topped-with-chewing-gum: >5
[Compare % of Fire Walk with Me’s convenience store demons who are black].
% of women shown as sexually active and brutally murdered onscreen: 80?
% of attractive young women around fiftysomething RussellBrandCoop shown as his for the taking: 100.
Minutes of woman/woman interaction: <5?.
Minutes of deliberate dead air: >30.
Minutes of men delivering shovels or painting them gold or flogging them: ~8.
Entirely superfluous scenes such as the delivery of the shovels: >30.
Minutes that could have been cut under a less eccentric editing policy: >150.
Minutes when disbelief was suspended: <3.
Minutes of adults exchanging nonsexual and irony-free warmth: <3?
% of warmhearted non-1-D characters played by the show’s writer and director: 100.
.


All excellent points. Too much arm evolution. Depiction of women tipped from imbalanced to awful. Every time there's a black guy, he's someone's superior officer, WOC are hookers :/ SO business as usual in Twin Peaks (Except Louie from S2- she's coming back, but still- I think of her as the hooker from Interview With the Vampire...) Superfluous shots and dead air, check. Perhaps this is why we got 18 episodes- the director's cut, basically. I'll take what I can get, the fat can stay, just not a lot of meat for thought in between episodes for it being there. I'm only in it for Kale's acting this episode.
Last edited by sylvia_north on Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
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