Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

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Adolphus
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Adolphus » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:03 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
Adolphus wrote:Does anyone else find some of the shots too dark? It might be the computer I'm watching it on but there have been 3 or 4 shots so far where I couldn't really see what was going on.


There was one VERY dark overhead shot of the woods this week near the end -- possible preceding the Ben/Beverly scene, or else preceding the immortal sweeping scene. I took it as DKL indulging his IE excesses.

Ha! I liked the sweeping scene.
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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:05 pm

Adolphus wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:
Adolphus wrote:Does anyone else find some of the shots too dark? It might be the computer I'm watching it on but there have been 3 or 4 shots so far where I couldn't really see what was going on.


There was one VERY dark overhead shot of the woods this week near the end -- possible preceding the Ben/Beverly scene, or else preceding the immortal sweeping scene. I took it as DKL indulging his IE excesses.

Ha! I liked the sweeping scene.


I meant IE excesses re: overly dark nearly impenetrable shots. I hated the sweeping scene on first viewing, but have warmed to it considerably.
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Adolphus
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Adolphus » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:08 pm

Mr. Reindeer wrote:
Adolphus wrote:
Mr. Reindeer wrote:
There was one VERY dark overhead shot of the woods this week near the end -- possible preceding the Ben/Beverly scene, or else preceding the immortal sweeping scene. I took it as DKL indulging his IE excesses.

Ha! I liked the sweeping scene.


I meant IE excesses re: overly dark nearly impenetrable shots. I hated the sweeping scene on first viewing, but have warmed to it considerably.

Ah I see- IE had some really murky shots due to the DVCam used- I find watching IE on a big screen ( movie screen ) clears some of that up- if you get the chance that is.
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mtsi
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Re: RE: Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby mtsi » Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:06 pm

Venus wrote:
Gabriel wrote:
Metamorphia wrote:
Not strictly true. The Arri Amira is the baby brother of the Arri Alexa, which is a top tier camera yielding very cinematic results - see films like Skyfall, Sicario, Birdman, the new Blade Runner (cinematographer Roger Deakins said he switched over to digital in 2011 because he couldn't tell the Alexa apart from film anymore). The differences between the Amira and Alexa are pretty minute.

The thing you're getting at with lenses is I imagine the deep depth of field, which I guess is true for some of The Return, although E7 bucked the trend in that regard.


You misunderstand. The director and DP have decided to go for a specific look. Therefore they chose the Amira, not because it can't achieve a cinematic look, but because it can achieve the look they want. Every subsequent choice, from lenses (not just for depth of field) to filters will be to get that flat, electronic look. The electronic look of the new series isn't a by-product of the technology; it's a choice Lynch and Deming have very specifically made. I was keeping my comment simple, because I didn't want to vomit loads of pages of my cinematography books all over the forum.

What I was basically saying about digital is: keeps the budget down – no film stock, no wasteage; better for effects work – more stable, no judder for the FX team to compensate for. It can look filmic, as most TV shows go for, but in this case, the electronic look is a definite choice.


Whats an electronic look of the series? I'm not too bothered about the look of the shots as they are to me like any other programme you watch nowadays. I guess when you go and look back at the original with the red filter to warm the tones of the show the comparison is quite stark to what we have now. Maybe as it goes on the shots will warm and different filters be used? Sorry for the non tech speak there!

If you watch this on an OLED TV, you would know. Ha.

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mtsi
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby mtsi » Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:09 pm

That long overhead shot of the woods that you were just referencing above? That is clearly a digital shot, meaning that those are manufactured trees. That's not real at all. Very clearly digital trees.

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Mr. Reindeer
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:17 pm

mtsi wrote:That long overhead shot of the woods that you were just referencing above? That is clearly a digital shot, meaning that those are manufactured trees. That's not real at all. Very clearly digital trees.

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Didn't notice. Could barely make it out. Maybe they made the shot so dark because it looked crummy?
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mtsi
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby mtsi » Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:18 pm

Maybe? I have a very high end television so it's possible that I'm the only one noticing it, and I don't mean that arrogantly. I'm just saying it's clearly clearly clearly digital.

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mtsi
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby mtsi » Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:19 pm

Wow, that sounded really douchy.

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Mallard
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Mallard » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:01 pm

mtsi wrote:Wow, that sounded really douchy.

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We don't all have 50K UHD 80" TVs clad in 24 karat gold. Quit lording it over us, mtsi! :lol:
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mtsi
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby mtsi » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:04 pm

Haha. Truth. ;)

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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby mlsstwrt » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:00 pm

mtsi wrote:Wow, that sounded really douchy.

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Hey **** you and your amazing TV mtsi!

Lol, just kidding. I've ended up watching half the episodes on my laptop. Would have considered that sacrilege before but haven't been so into The Return (in case that's not clear).
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mtsi
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby mtsi » Tue Jun 20, 2017 10:02 pm

You know....I thought it'd be cool to have a UHD but some stuff is really disconcerting.

I watched E.T. the other day and it was almost painfully clear. That whole soap opera effect....

Sometimes, I like it. That time I didn't.

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Gabriel
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Gabriel » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:58 pm

Skip Bittman wrote:I'm one of the biggest film-and-grain-worshiping snobs on the planet, willing to sell grandma for 16mm and with a feature amidst the final batch of Kodachrome ever processed, but man -- what utter nonsense that they were purposely after a flat, electronic look. You'll never get a quote from Lynch or Deming agreeing with such gibberish, that's pure spin. It's one thing to say that to you it looks flat and electronic. To claim that's what they wanted? Prove it with anything except subjectivity.


No. What are you on about?

It's clearly, blatantly a digital look! It's as in-your-face digital electronic as it can be. It's obvious that Lynch and Deming chose that look for impact. It's not by chance! It's a flatter, more electronic look. Objective reality here, Skip! The look of the new show is not filmic and doesn't try to pretend it is, unlike most TV shows – see later Mad Men, Better Call Saul and pretty much everything else high budget out there. That's a deliberate choice of look, whether or not you love it!

And spin? I simply stated that the new show has a digital, less filmic look (being technical, flatter and more electronic, closer to drama-docs and daytime soaps) than your average 'filmed' drama. I don't know what settings you've got on your TV, but I've been working in post for over 20 years, I've done plenty of grading work, I know what cameras and lenses do and how they affect the final look of a video and I can assure you that what is on screen isn't being made to look 'filmic.' That's their choice and what they've gone for; it's not an accident. Lynch himself has talked up digital video for years and has clearly decided that he wanted to use it for effect in a pure 'untinkered with' manner.

By all means criticise me for being me, but the objective evidence is right there onscreen for you every week. It has nothing to do with 'film grain snobbery;' I genuinely couldn't care less and agree with Lynch's remark about being 'done with film' in Side By Side. So please read up on this stuff before accusing people of 'gibberish.'

Now I intend to prove black is white and will likely get run over at the next zebra crossing! ;)
Metamorphia
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Metamorphia » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:05 am

Gabriel wrote:
Metamorphia wrote:
Not strictly true. The Arri Amira is the baby brother of the Arri Alexa, which is a top tier camera yielding very cinematic results - see films like Skyfall, Sicario, Birdman, the new Blade Runner (cinematographer Roger Deakins said he switched over to digital in 2011 because he couldn't tell the Alexa apart from film anymore). The differences between the Amira and Alexa are pretty minute.

The thing you're getting at with lenses is I imagine the deep depth of field, which I guess is true for some of The Return, although E7 bucked the trend in that regard.


You misunderstand. The director and DP have decided to go for a specific look. Therefore they chose the Amira, not because it can't achieve a cinematic look, but because it can achieve the look they want. Every subsequent choice, from lenses (not just for depth of field) to filters will be to get that flat, electronic look. The electronic look of the new series isn't a by-product of the technology; it's a choice Lynch and Deming have very specifically made. I was keeping my comment simple, because I didn't want to vomit loads of pages of my cinematography books all over the forum.

What I was basically saying about digital is: keeps the budget down – no film stock, no wasteage; better for effects work – more stable, no judder for the FX team to compensate for. It can look filmic, as most TV shows go for, but in this case, the electronic look is a definite choice.


Well I don't disagree with this then, thought you were suggesting it was actually shot on some kind of studio esque gear. The capabilities of the camera towards the filmic side have been exploited a few times, namely in the last episode as I said. A lot of the stuff with Andy outside looked bloody beautiful to me, but that may just be a byproduct of the wonderful natural locations/colours.

I said when I saw the first trailers that I had a feeling Lynch was going to just push digital into a really hyper-natural state. He probably sees dailies straight out of the camera and absolutely loves it just flat like that (I'd love to see interviews with whoever coloured this at some point) - same with the FX work. I bet Lynch has actually stepped in to tell the FX guys not to make things look too real at times.
LateReg
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby LateReg » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:28 am

mtsi wrote:You know....I thought it'd be cool to have a UHD but some stuff is really disconcerting.

I watched E.T. the other day and it was almost painfully clear. That whole soap opera effect....

Sometimes, I like it. That time I didn't.

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I think we have the same TV...65 inch OLED. Are you watching The Return with the soap opera effect on? I turn it off on every setting. I think that the show looks wonderful on my TV. I didn't notice the digital trees shot that you pointed out above, I will look later for it.

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