Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

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Gabriel
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Gabriel »

LateReg wrote:
I think we have the same TV...65 inch OLED. Are you watching The Return with the soap opera effect on? I turn it off on every setting. I think that the show looks wonderful on my TV. I didn't notice the digital trees shot that you pointed out above, I will look later for it.
I remember going to a friend's house, one time, and I thought he had the From Russia With Love computer game on. Then I realised that it was the film, but he had on every stabilisation, degraining, noise reducing, smooth movement, hyper-interlacing bit of nightmare software activated.

Needless to say, I turned off the lot, not to mention switching his picture size from 16:9 to Screen Fit so he'd regain the underscan!
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by LateReg »

Gabriel wrote:
LateReg wrote:
I think we have the same TV...65 inch OLED. Are you watching The Return with the soap opera effect on? I turn it off on every setting. I think that the show looks wonderful on my TV. I didn't notice the digital trees shot that you pointed out above, I will look later for it.
I remember going to a friend's house, one time, and I thought he had the From Russia With Love computer game on. Then I realised that it was the film, but he had on every stabilisation, degraining, noise reducing, smooth movement, hyper-interlacing bit of nightmare software activated.

Needless to say, I turned off the lot, not to mention switching his picture size from 16:9 to Screen Fit so he'd regain the underscan!
Ha yeah! That sounds about right. So many people don't even notice or care. Some even like the effect! I don't.
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mtsi
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by mtsi »

Yeah. I need to do that. But holy hell does everything else look good or what?

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Gabriel
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Gabriel »

LateReg wrote:Ha yeah! That sounds about right. So many people don't even notice or care. Some even like the effect! I don't.
As an editor – and a purist – I like stuff such as my aspect ratios spot on on. My brother had got me over to fix up some issues with his TV, only to moan later that his 4:3 programmes looked 'wrong' now. Basically, they were 4:3 and he'd been stretching them. I shook my head in despair and told him how to ruin his viewing experience in order that he enjoy his programmes more!
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by LateReg »

mtsi wrote:Yeah. I need to do that. But holy hell does everything else look good or what?

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Re: RE: Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by mtsi »

Gabriel wrote:
LateReg wrote:Ha yeah! That sounds about right. So many people don't even notice or care. Some even like the effect! I don't.
As an editor – and a purist – I like stuff such as my aspect ratios spot on on. My brother had got me over to fix up some issues with his TV, only to moan later that his 4:3 programmes looked 'wrong' now. Basically, they were 4:3 and he'd been stretching them. I shook my head in despair and told him how to ruin his viewing experience in order that he enjoy his programmes more!
It's right up there with when you go to a cinema to see an old classic movie and somebody inevitably asks "why are the curtains closed halfway?"

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federicomiozzo
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by federicomiozzo »

Gabriel wrote:
Skip Bittman wrote:I'm one of the biggest film-and-grain-worshiping snobs on the planet, willing to sell grandma for 16mm and with a feature amidst the final batch of Kodachrome ever processed, but man -- what utter nonsense that they were purposely after a flat, electronic look. You'll never get a quote from Lynch or Deming agreeing with such gibberish, that's pure spin. It's one thing to say that to you it looks flat and electronic. To claim that's what they wanted? Prove it with anything except subjectivity.
No. What are you on about?

It's clearly, blatantly a digital look! It's as in-your-face digital electronic as it can be. It's obvious that Lynch and Deming chose that look for impact. It's not by chance! It's a flatter, more electronic look. Objective reality here, Skip! The look of the new show is not filmic and doesn't try to pretend it is, unlike most TV shows – see later Mad Men, Better Call Saul and pretty much everything else high budget out there. That's a deliberate choice of look, whether or not you love it!

And spin? I simply stated that the new show has a digital, less filmic look (being technical, flatter and more electronic, closer to drama-docs and daytime soaps) than your average 'filmed' drama. I don't know what settings you've got on your TV, but I've been working in post for over 20 years, I've done plenty of grading work, I know what cameras and lenses do and how they affect the final look of a video and I can assure you that what is on screen isn't being made to look 'filmic.' That's their choice and what they've gone for; it's not an accident. Lynch himself has talked up digital video for years and has clearly decided that he wanted to use it for effect in a pure 'untinkered with' manner.

By all means criticise me for being me, but the objective evidence is right there onscreen for you every week. It has nothing to do with 'film grain snobbery;' I genuinely couldn't care less and agree with Lynch's remark about being 'done with film' in Side By Side. So please read up on this stuff before accusing people of 'gibberish.'

Now I intend to prove black is white and will likely get run over at the next zebra crossing! ;)
I completely agree, doing the same job. It was a clear decision/statement. Also if you take a look at INLAND EMPIRE which was shot in SD, the main idea for lynch was that (in my opinion) he wanted the digital pixeled feeling to BE THERE knowing his love for textures. And at the end it all comes down to textures being that grain or flat. They surely didn't want to have the same vibe form the original series. Just look how hard they tried to make the old footage fit into the new "cold" not cinematic look.
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Twin Peaks Podcast
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Twin Peaks Podcast »

So here's an e-mail I got and had to read during the feedback section of my podcast yesterday.
Hellooooooooo

Long time listener. Got through all the old podcasts after I started my first watch of Twin Peaks a few years ago and enjoyed them for the most part. I learned a lot of information about the show and lore that way.

That being said, I'm not sure I'll continue to listen. None of you seem to enjoy the show at all, let alone anything David Lynch touches. Really makes it hard to listen to something when all you do is bash the thing we're supposed to be fans of. We get it. You don't like Dougie. Stop harping on it.

Aside from the Dougie stuff, it doesn't even seem like you guys are even watching. Some of you even fell asleep...

The trailer park didn't move to Twin Peaks. Carl got a ride into town. How was that hard to interpret? You're spreading misinformation that only serves to confuse anyone else who didn't understand it entirely. And the show is about magic spirits and otherworld dimensions. Yet you can't believe the telephone pole showed up in a different place? If anything, it's just the same numbers... Or it's The Man From Another Place (being an electric tree an all).

Your hangups on the little things and blowing them out of proportion is getting to me. It's a miracle the show is even back on and I think you guys went in with your expectations way to high.

It's not the same show and it's yrev, very obvious. Yes the advertising might have been a little misleading but even after the first 10 minutes is was obvious this was new and different. So I think you gotta stop complaining about it not being what you thought/wanted.

And yes, I heard the intro on the first episode. Yes art is subjective and we all interpret it differently. But you all seem to be reading bad reviews on the internet and regurgitating them, or you've all become completely cynical.

Bad CGI... Dougie... Treating women as objects... Dougie... Long drawn out shots... DOUGIE! Do you have anything good to say about the show? I'd be much more interested in just listening to the guest for an hour. At least they seem to try and enjoy the show.

Try to be more constructive. You're just tearing the show down and frankly I think you got it all wrong. Instead of taking notes and trying to find talking points, just watch and enjoy. Then watch again and make notes. It almost seems like you're looking for errors or things you didn't like.

Also, please stop trying so hard to be funny. It should come natural and most of the time it does. But all the fake laughter is really obvious and obnoxious.

I hope you the show gets better for you guys because I love having something to look forward to on Sunday night.

Thanks for your time.
Appears I'm only allowed to podcast about this show if I say nice things. Sorry, I loved the original show and wanted more of that. This show is nothing like the original show, why am I still obliged to love it just because I started a podcast about the original version?

The funny part is we spent an hour praising episode seven and then we had to read this email telling us how much we bash the show. And for the record, I don't think I needlessly bash it. If I don't like something I try my best to explain why.

As for some of his specific points.
• None of us fell asleep during the show. My wife fell asleep while listening to the audio book. That's different.
• Did the Trailer Park not move? It's called the "New" Fat Trout Trailer Park. If it didn't move, does that mean every morning Carl drives from Deer Meadow in Oregon into Twin Peaks, Washington just to enjoy that park and a coffee?
• I don't read bad articles on the internet and regurgitate them. My hang ups with the show are my own. Trying to find a harsh review of this show is harder than you'd think. Most outlets seem to love it.
• We have plenty of good to say about the show. But this guy must have selective hearing.
• Watch and try to enjoy, then rewatch and take notes. That's exactly what we do.
• Trying to be funny... we make each other laugh. What else can we say. If you don't like our sense of humour, sorry.

Anyways, thought I'd share this e-mail with this group. I get stuff like this all time. You're really not allowed to express a negative opinion on Lynch or some people will come at you hard.
Last edited by Twin Peaks Podcast on Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Skip Bittman
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Skip Bittman »

Gabriel wrote: I don't know what settings you've got on your TV, but I've been working in post for over 20 years, I've done plenty of grading work, I know what cameras and lenses do and how they affect the final look of a video and I can assure you that what is on screen isn't being made to look 'filmic.'
Sure, it's not being slathered in horrible processing and filters that entirely fail to make it look remotely filmlike. It is not however, intentionally shot to be "flat and electronic." Find me one quote from Lynch or Deming claiming that's what they wanted. You won't find anything that backs up your personal judgment, so you have take the "appeal to authority" route. Well, you're not an authority. You're just another editor with another opinion.

I've also worked in post for 20 years and I think it looks fucking lovely. You don't. Taste varies, no need to compare penis size. Both of us can remain blissfully content in knowing we're right. That's fine! Ok, time for the arm wrestling interrupted with nostalgic remembrances about the Video Toaster.
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Adolphus
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Adolphus »

Skip Bittman wrote:
Gabriel wrote: I don't know what settings you've got on your TV, but I've been working in post for over 20 years, I've done plenty of grading work, I know what cameras and lenses do and how they affect the final look of a video and I can assure you that what is on screen isn't being made to look 'filmic.'
Sure, it's not being slathered in horrible processing and filters that entirely fail to make it look remotely filmlike. It is not however, intentionally shot to be "flat and electronic." Find me one quote from Lynch or Deming claiming that's what they wanted. You won't find anything that backs up your personal judgment, so you have take the "appeal to authority" route. Well, you're not an authority. You're just another editor with another opinion.

I've also worked in post for 20 years and I think it looks fucking lovely. You don't. Taste varies, no need to compare penis size. Both of us can remain blissfully content in knowing we're right. That's fine! Ok, time for the arm wrestling interrupted with nostalgic remembrances about the Video Toaster.
I think the new series looks great- as far as the " flat, electronic " look- I find that other series shot on digital such as " Better Call Saul " have the same look- I think it's the depth of film ( the richness of the blacks that adds that feeling of depth compared to digital ) that the poster is noticing above ( and quite an acute eye they have as well ). I think there are still differences between film and digital, but now they are pretty subtle. I'd have preferred to see the new TP shot on film but the digital works fine for me personally- in fact I think it suits the new series better, adding that much more to how different it is from the original series ( in a good way ).
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by BOB1 »

Technical things aside - am I the only person who thought that the "evolution of the arm" in the scene when Dougie is assaulted was rubbish? And I mean, I truly hate this tree thing but even if it was the one and only little Michael J. Anderson who appeared to Dougie from under the ground to tell him to do whatever to the hand of the assaulter, still it would be stupid! I think the scene in itself was really good and Dougie's reaction to the attack - priceless. Did he really need to get adviced (so terribly literally) from the other world?
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Gabriel
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Gabriel »

Adolphus wrote: I think the new series looks great- as far as the " flat, electronic " look- I find that other series shot on digital such as " Better Call Saul " have the same look- I think it's the depth of film ( the richness of the blacks that adds that feeling of depth compared to digital ) that the poster is noticing above ( and quite an acute eye they have as well ). I think there are still differences between film and digital, but now they are pretty subtle. I'd have preferred to see the new TP shot on film but the digital works fine for me personally- in fact I think it suits the new series better, adding that much more to how different it is from the original series ( in a good way ).
New Twin Peaks has an extremely distinctive look, fully embracing the look of a less processed digital image.

It's not a criticism to say that it has a flatter, more overtly digital look; that's a simple fact. Many of us have discussed Lynch and Deming's choices at length here for some weeks. No, I don't particularly care for it. It's not a choice I'd make, but they see clearly something that appeals to them.

Not sure why Skippy-boy is taking such enormous offence at that but clearly he's not seeing something everyone else does. Can't imagine why other editors and a couple of grading guys I know have discussed it with me if it's fake. Most likely Skip has his TV set up with lots of smooth motion effects, meaning everything looks electronic.
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Gabriel
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Gabriel »

BOB1 wrote:Technical things aside -
Thank God!
am I the only person who thought that the "evolution of the arm" in the scene when Dougie is assaulted was rubbish? And I mean, I truly hate this tree thing but even if it was the one and only little Michael J. Anderson who appeared to Dougie from under the ground to tell him to do whatever to the hand of the assaulter, still it would be stupid! I think the scene in itself was really good and Dougie's reaction to the attack - priceless. Did he really need to get adviced (so terribly literally) from the other world?
I feel that the whole way through, both with the arm/tree appearances and the one-armed man appearances that these were basically meant to be LMFAP moments. Mike was never the guy hanging around the red room: he was the spirit out in the real world, driving trucks and shouting out warnings at people. Every time he shows up, it feels like it should be a dwarf moment.
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Gabriel
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Gabriel »

Twin Peaks Podcast wrote:So here's an e-mail I got and had to read during the feedback section of my podcast yesterday...

As for some of his specific points.
• None of us fell asleep during the show. My wife fell asleep while listening to the audio book. That's different.
• Did the Trailer Park not move? It's called the "New" Fat Trout Trailer Park. If it didn't move, does that mean every morning Carl drives from Deer Meadow in Oregon into Twin Peaks, Washington just to enjoy that park and a coffee?
• I don't read bad articles on the internet and regurgitate them. My hang ups with the show are my own. Trying to find a harsh review of this show is harder than you'd think. Most outlets seem to love it.
• We have plenty of good to say about the show. But this guy must have selective hearing.
• Watch and try to enjoy, then rewatch and take notes. That's exactly what we do.
• Trying to be funny... we make each other laugh. What else can we say. If you don't like our sense of humour, sorry.

Anyways, thought I'd share this e-mail with this group. I get stuff like this all time. You're really not allowed to express a negative opinion on Lynch or some people will come at you hard.
Blimey! I feel your pain! I reckon there's a bunch of ultras out there covered in Owl's Cave glyphs waiting to smack our heads into mirrors! :lol: I remember Dennis Bailey over on Trek Movie Report used to get yelled at for his amusing, off-kilter reviews of Star Trek episodes. Keep on blogging; there'll always be hardcores who can't handle a witty opinion that doesn't claim everything is perfect.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Jerry Horne »

Forum rules

Welcome to the forum. We know our members are passionate about their love for all things Twin Peaks. You wouldn't be here if that wasn't the case. Despite having differing viewpoints it is a policy that we all treat each other with mutual respect.

Posting abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated, or any material that may violate any laws be it of your country or the country where this forum is hosted will get you permanently banned.

Posting of spoilers is not permitted. Keep the mystery alive.
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