Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby BOB1 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:11 pm

Here Comes That Bob wrote:Have to admit , I'm gradually starting to warm up for the show, especially after a rewatch of last episode and discussing it with fellow Dugpas. Can't wait for PART 8 and plotlines to start unraveling.


Yuppie! :D

IcedOver wrote:If the next hour doesn't either significantly advance the story or have him "wake up,"...


He he he.

I was thinking similarly. Now it's hard to say anything :-) They didn't speak much in this last part, either, anyway!

Now let's see what you guys have written. One thing I can say for sure is - this is the most uncompromising thing ever!
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby IcedOver » Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:19 pm

BOB1 wrote:He he he.

I was thinking similarly. Now it's hard to say anything :-) They didn't speak much in this last part, either, anyway!

Now let's see what you guys have written. One thing I can say for sure is - this is the most uncompromising thing ever!


I put a small reaction above. I liked this part quite a bit even if Lynch going full surreal (on a first viewing) sometimes feels like a parody of his own work. It was a departure, an aside. My main issue with Dougie is that it's a time situation. I just hope that that situation doesn't linger on to the final few episodes. It's also entirely possible that the Coop who woke up is the good Coop, with Bob removed.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby BOB1 » Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:30 pm

THAT:

gavin wrote:Here is what I got out of episode 8

1. Hobos gather at gas stations and doppelgänger's bodies in search of matches.

2. What lifted up the giant apparently couldn't pick up the fat girl, so she got a "Laura Palmer" jelly bean instead.

3. Sometimes a network should have a little veto power over creative controls.


is truly funny :D

THAT:

yaxomoxay wrote:Episode 8 was the biggest, greatest love letter to Twin Peaks fans. We invested time and some money in it, and yesterday David Lynch transformed the whole world of Twin Peaks from a mild murder mystery in a god forsaken town in which two forces are fighting to the most important event in human history.
He moved Laura from being an abused druggie to a creation of God that most likely suffered to save our world. It made Twin Peaks the most important place in history due to human's choices (the nuke). He made everything the center of the existence planes, including the lodges. He made Bob the creation of pure evil (or pain and suffering on a nuclear scale), making Cooper's sacrifice even more incredible.


is really beautiful. And I totally understand what you mean and why you feel this way.

On the other hand I can't help thinking that THIS:

KnewItsPa wrote:Laura the pure, clean, golden spirit being sent down from Jabbas Palace on Geidi Prime by the Giant doesn't feel remotely connected to the original mythology, and nor does the connexion with the atomic bomb and the woodsmen. Atomic bomb, yeah, that really fits in with the original Twin Peaks, not glued on with pine resin and hammered on with nine inch nails at all.


unfortunately might also have its point.


So all in all I will say answer to THIS:

Jonah wrote:I neither loved or hated this episode. I thought it was beautifully shot. But I admit I prefer episodes that are heavy on forward narrative momentum. I like absurd and surrealist stuff - but usually only in smaller doses, such as the slow opening to Season 2 of the original series, or all the stuff in Episode 29. So I'm not sure what I thought of this episode really. I had a lot of thoughts on it, but overall can't tell if I liked it or didn't like it. Anyone else feel like this?


that yes, that's exactly how I feel, at least now, less than an hour after watching.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby LurkerAtTheThreshold » Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:11 pm

yaxomoxay wrote:
LurkerAtTheThreshold wrote:
I was back on board last episode. But this----
This----episode 8 business.....
Surely this is a fuck you to the audience? I'm still riding this wave to the beach, but should we be calling the authorities about the tsunami?
This series really feels like psychological abuse.


I am not going to talk about the fact that you hate the show as it's not only your right but a legitimate feeling, even if I disagree.

But let me disagree as vehemently as possible with the above statement. Episode 8 was the biggest, greatest love letter to Twin Peaks fans. We invested time and some money in it, and yesterday David Lynch transformed the whole world of Twin Peaks from a mild murder mystery in a god forsaken town in which two forces are fighting to the most important event in human history.
He moved Laura from being an abused druggie to a creation of God that most likely suffered to save our world. It made Twin Peaks the most important place in history due to human's choices (the nuke). He made everything the center of the existence planes, including the lodges. He made Bob the creation of pure evil (or pain and suffering on a nuclear scale), making Cooper's sacrifice even more incredible.



Am I the only one that found the mythologizing of Laura in this sci fi- 1950's nostalgia fest space epic/pseudodrama Lynchian wank fest trite?

Why would I want to see Laura Palmer floating around in a bubble in the giants spaceship and her become the redeemer of humanity?

That's the stupidest shit I've ever heard

Visually yes. This episode was stunning
But it was so boring I went to be at 9pm from being exhausted watching it.
It's really fucking stupid.
Are you telling me that you really buy into a murdered teenage high school girl being the saviour from a demon caused by a nuclear blast?
And they idea doesn't make you cringe?

This is Ed Wood funny but it's not good.

I'm sorry. As I say every week. Im going to keep watching this. Im going to take it as it is.
I'll appreciate individual aspects. Cinematography is great... etc etc

But I'll never love this series as a cohesive whole

It's just dumbfest 2017
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Re: RE: Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby LurkerAtTheThreshold » Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:48 pm

Panapaok wrote:
LurkerAtTheThreshold wrote:Saw some shots from Frost on set with Lynch obviously during filming of last episode, Frost said he was only on set that day they were filming his father. Does anyone else get the feeling that Lynch just went on this self righteous art trip when no one else was around, and no one saw the final thing until David Nevins called it 'pure heroine' or whatever.
This is incorrect, pure and simple. Frost was present during the whole WA filming, people from this forum who spectated the filming saw him pretty much every day. And he was present in at least some of the filming in LA, as evidenced by production stills.

Saying that this is just Lynch in his self righteous form and not noticing Frost's major influence in this episode (and series in general) is bizarre to say the least.



All I'm saying is... Lynch pulled out half way through this production, and was evidently going through some inner turmoil as evidenced by the emotional confusion in the narrative. Emotionally this thing is all over the shop

It's worth noting that Frost penned Secret history AFTER filming this. So maybe all those people who complained about Frost introducing all this mythology could consider the possibility that (like with the fire walk with me ring) Frost was attempting to make some sort of sense, of the many disordered threads of Lynch's subconscious.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby yaxomoxay » Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:44 pm

LurkerAtTheThreshold wrote:
yaxomoxay wrote:
LurkerAtTheThreshold wrote:
I was back on board last episode. But this----
This----episode 8 business.....
Surely this is a fuck you to the audience? I'm still riding this wave to the beach, but should we be calling the authorities about the tsunami?
This series really feels like psychological abuse.


I am not going to talk about the fact that you hate the show as it's not only your right but a legitimate feeling, even if I disagree.

But let me disagree as vehemently as possible with the above statement. Episode 8 was the biggest, greatest love letter to Twin Peaks fans. We invested time and some money in it, and yesterday David Lynch transformed the whole world of Twin Peaks from a mild murder mystery in a god forsaken town in which two forces are fighting to the most important event in human history.
He moved Laura from being an abused druggie to a creation of God that most likely suffered to save our world. It made Twin Peaks the most important place in history due to human's choices (the nuke). He made everything the center of the existence planes, including the lodges. He made Bob the creation of pure evil (or pain and suffering on a nuclear scale), making Cooper's sacrifice even more incredible.



Am I the only one that found the mythologizing of Laura in this sci fi- 1950's nostalgia fest space epic/pseudodrama Lynchian wank fest trite?

Why would I want to see Laura Palmer floating around in a bubble in the giants spaceship and her become the redeemer of humanity?

That's the stupidest shit I've ever heard

Visually yes. This episode was stunning
But it was so boring I went to be at 9pm from being exhausted watching it.
It's really fucking stupid.
Are you telling me that you really buy into a murdered teenage high school girl being the saviour from a demon caused by a nuclear blast?
And they idea doesn't make you cringe?

This is Ed Wood funny but it's not good.

I'm sorry. As I say every week. Im going to keep watching this. Im going to take it as it is.
I'll appreciate individual aspects. Cinematography is great... etc etc

But I'll never love this series as a cohesive whole

It's just dumbfest 2017
I've had enough creamed corn now, and I want my coffee and donuts


Well, I will never tell you that you should like this series. It's art, so love it, or hate it. Or just be indifferent to it. You choose, and it's your right, as it's your right to find it stupid. Some people find Picasso stupid, others find him a genius. That's art.

As for the NEED of seeing Laura like yesterday in episode 8? Well, we didn't NEED to see her. We didn't need anything from series 3. Or series 2, for the matter, except the murder's resolution. We also didn't need to know about the sawmill, or Nadine's drapes, or Lucy's love for Dick Tremaine.

Fulfilling needs is not what this series is about. And it's not what was about or what will be about. With the exception of a few episodes from Series 2, Twin Peaks is an exhibition. Heck, we could use Mussorgsky's music to accompany us at this exhibition. It's an exhibition of characters, and elements, often seemingly disjointed; yet, all of them fit into a larger picture. It's a matryoshka doll. You open it, then open it, then open it again. And inside you find more and more elements. Twin Peaks could be the murder of a bad girl by the hands of her abusive father in a mid sized town, all of it solved by a capable and unconventional investigator. That's the only thing we NEED to see Twin Peaks.
But we (at least I do) love Twin Peaks more than anything else because, like the owls, it's not what it seems. The more we open a layer, the more we understand.
Episode 8 has shown to us the primordial layer of Twin Peaks. We didn't need to see it, and our lives would've continued anyways in admiration of Twin Peaks. But yesterday I was given the gift to see the core of the matter, at least until we find the next box to open (if there is one), and for this I will always be thankful about what I watched on Sunday, June 25 2017.


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Re: RE: Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby N. Needleman » Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:02 pm

LurkerAtTheThreshold wrote:All I'm saying is... Lynch pulled out half way through this production


Actually, they hadn't started shooting yet. They didn't shoot until the budget dispute was resolved.
AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:The Return is clearly guaranteed a future audience among stoners and other drug users.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby LurkerAtTheThreshold » Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:03 pm

yaxomoxay wrote:
LurkerAtTheThreshold wrote:
yaxomoxay wrote:
I am not going to talk about the fact that you hate the show as it's not only your right but a legitimate feeling, even if I disagree.

But let me disagree as vehemently as possible with the above statement. Episode 8 was the biggest, greatest love letter to Twin Peaks fans. We invested time and some money in it, and yesterday David Lynch transformed the whole world of Twin Peaks from a mild murder mystery in a god forsaken town in which two forces are fighting to the most important event in human history.
He moved Laura from being an abused druggie to a creation of God that most likely suffered to save our world. It made Twin Peaks the most important place in history due to human's choices (the nuke). He made everything the center of the existence planes, including the lodges. He made Bob the creation of pure evil (or pain and suffering on a nuclear scale), making Cooper's sacrifice even more incredible.



Am I the only one that found the mythologizing of Laura in this sci fi- 1950's nostalgia fest space epic/pseudodrama Lynchian wank fest trite?

Why would I want to see Laura Palmer floating around in a bubble in the giants spaceship and her become the redeemer of humanity?

That's the stupidest shit I've ever heard

Visually yes. This episode was stunning
But it was so boring I went to be at 9pm from being exhausted watching it.
It's really fucking stupid.
Are you telling me that you really buy into a murdered teenage high school girl being the saviour from a demon caused by a nuclear blast?
And they idea doesn't make you cringe?

This is Ed Wood funny but it's not good.

I'm sorry. As I say every week. Im going to keep watching this. Im going to take it as it is.
I'll appreciate individual aspects. Cinematography is great... etc etc

But I'll never love this series as a cohesive whole

It's just dumbfest 2017
I've had enough creamed corn now, and I want my coffee and donuts


Well, I will never tell you that you should like this series. It's art, so love it, or hate it. Or just be indifferent to it. You choose, and it's your right, as it's your right to find it stupid. Some people find Picasso stupid, others find him a genius. That's art.

As for the NEED of seeing Laura like yesterday in episode 8? Well, we didn't NEED to see her. We didn't need anything from series 3. Or series 2, for the matter, except the murder's resolution. We also didn't need to know about the sawmill, or Nadine's drapes, or Lucy's love for Dick Tremaine.

Fulfilling needs is not what this series is about. And it's not what was about or what will be about. With the exception of a few episodes from Series 2, Twin Peaks is an exhibition. Heck, we could use Mussorgsky's music to accompany us at this exhibition. It's an exhibition of characters, and elements, often seemingly disjointed; yet, all of them fit into a larger picture. It's a matryoshka doll. You open it, then open it, then open it again. And inside you find more and more elements. Twin Peaks could be the murder of a bad girl by the hands of her abusive father in a mid sized town, all of it solved by a capable and unconventional investigator. That's the only thing we NEED to see Twin Peaks.
But we (at least I do) love Twin Peaks more than anything else because, like the owls, it's not what it seems. The more we open a layer, the more we understand.
Episode 8 has shown to us the primordial layer of Twin Peaks. We didn't need to see it, and our lives would've continued anyways in admiration of Twin Peaks. But yesterday I was given the gift to see the core of the matter, at least until we find the next box to open (if there is one), and for this I will always be thankful about what I watched on Sunday, June 25 2017.


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Believe it or not, I do see your side.
Part of me can appreciate it on this level.

It's just after last week, with a solid narrative I was really looking g forward to a progressive narrative this week and I'm really getting tired of this alien landscape Dune-esque shit. I really don't think the lizards or the black-faced homeless men did anything to enhance the world building of Twin peaks. The opposite for me.

Maybe after the next episodes if we return to more conventional narrative I will be able to look back on this with more appreciation, like I could somewhat with the eyeless woman/purple world stuff. The less of this shit the better in my opionin. This is James and Evelyn for me but I'm glad others are enjoying it.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby dugpa » Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:09 pm

Folks, the mods don't have time to police this or other threads. Treat each other with respect or the board will go back to being private and permanent bans will be made.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby ozziejohn » Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:09 pm

LurkerAtTheThreshold wrote:
It's just after last week, with a solid narrative I was really looking g forward to a progressive narrative this week and I'm really getting tired of this alien landscape Dune-esque shit. I really don't think the lizards or the black-faced homeless men did anything to enhance the world building of Twin peaks. The opposite for me.

Maybe after the next episodes if we return to more conventional narrative I will be able to look back on this with more appreciation, like I could somewhat with the eyeless woman/purple world stuff. The less of this shit the better in my opionin. This is James and Evelyn for me but I'm glad others are enjoying it.


I'm curious...what DID you want from season three?
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby LurkerAtTheThreshold » Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:17 pm

ozziejohn wrote:
LurkerAtTheThreshold wrote:
It's just after last week, with a solid narrative I was really looking g forward to a progressive narrative this week and I'm really getting tired of this alien landscape Dune-esque shit. I really don't think the lizards or the black-faced homeless men did anything to enhance the world building of Twin peaks. The opposite for me.

Maybe after the next episodes if we return to more conventional narrative I will be able to look back on this with more appreciation, like I could somewhat with the eyeless woman/purple world stuff. The less of this shit the better in my opionin. This is James and Evelyn for me but I'm glad others are enjoying it.


I'm curious...what DID you want from season three?



Just some solid world building.
Is that too much to ask?
I want to engage with a piece of fiction that is not so immersed in its own mythology it can't spend time in one location for more than a fragment of an episode. A story that is at least partially rooted in some extant reality.
I want a narrative that is not jarring and constantly elusive for no reason.

At least something that is self aware enough to know what it is. This seems so unsure wether it's a murder mystery, or a satire, or a science fiction space opera, or a time travel alternate dimension story.

I don't intrinsically have anything opposed to these themes. It's just not very engaging. It's goofy. It's muddy. It's cheesy.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby LurkerAtTheThreshold » Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:21 pm

dugpa wrote:Folks, the mods don't have time to police this or other threads. Treat each other with respect or the board will go back to being private and permanent bans will be made.


Sorry.
As someone who has spent time in both camps I have experienced flack from both sides of the debate and it is ridiculous that people are attacking each other over their opinions on art.

Sometimes emotions get the better of you when people attack you personally and make all these assumptions based on your opinion of the return. But I don't mean to vent at anyone and I'm sorry for engaging in any flame wars. Definitely don't want to see anyone banned or restrictions because of wether or not people like a piece of art.

Let's take a chill pill everyone.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby douglasb » Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:43 pm

I wonder how many times Lynch said 'Beautiful! Beautiful!' during the filming?

For me, the abstract works best when it's still rooted in human experience. So the climax of FWWM? All good.

But, I dunno - Jackson Pollock doesn't make my heart beat faster or the hairs on my arms stand up. I can like and appreciate it, but it doesn't move me.

And I may have said this before but reconning rarely pans out. Twin Peaks - small town where odd things sometimes happen. That's fine. That works. Twin Peaks - all of the above AND The God Saxophone and it's something else entirely. It's not enough to Save The Pine Weasel any more apparently.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby LurkerAtTheThreshold » Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:18 am

douglasb wrote:I wonder how many times Lynch said 'Beautiful! Beautiful!' during the filming?

For me, the abstract works best when it's still rooted in human experience. So the climax of FWWM? All good.

But, I dunno - Jackson Pollock doesn't make my heart beat faster or the hairs on my arms stand up. I can like and appreciate it, but it doesn't move me.

And I may have said this before but reconning rarely pans out. Twin Peaks - small town where odd things sometimes happen. That's fine. That works. Twin Peaks - all of the above AND The God Saxophone and it's something else entirely. It's not enough to Save The Pine Weasel any more apparently.


I have to agree with this.
There's still ten episodes left and so I hesitate to endlessly criticise, because I still think there's going to be a lot more likeable elements to come--but as a whole-- I think they've really lost the ball on this world building. There's just too much fantasy. Everyone knows that when it comes to horror that some things are just better left to the imagination. Maybe these elements were always part of Twin peaks, and this is the visualisation of the mythology, but.....
I much preferred the occult mysteries implied than so overt. The red room/black lodge was always better when it was uncertain wether or not it was a dream
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby BigEd » Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:22 am

KnewItsPa wrote:
And unless Mr. C had a bullet-proof vest, the rising from the dead is hugely vexatious and outside the symbolic framework of the original for supernatural agents to intervene in such a dramatically tangible way. Verging on complete bunkum.


Are you suggesting that he would be dead because bullets kill humans? He's a doppleganger (and we really don't know what that means at all). Are doppleganers human or are they spiritual? If the latter, then Ray just shot bullets into a ghost and, guess what, he didn't kill it. :lol:

Maybe I'm missing something here.....

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