Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

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Gabriel
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Gabriel » Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:44 am

Agent327 wrote:I think Audrey's acting was good actually. Maybe that's just me.

But the scene, the WRITING, the direction, the pacing, was horrifically dull.

This was an episode I would be embarrassed to show to anyone who knows I'm a Twin Peaks fan.


I guess Audrey grew Evil Coop's monster spawn inside her and has been left a bitter, nasty piece of work. The scene left a bad taste in my mouth. For me, I'd rather not have seen Audrey at all rather than this bitter harridan. The scene could literally have been rewritten from a scene with Frank Truman and his wife. In fact, the wives all seem to remind me of the monstrous wives often seen in Laurel and Hardy films.

I didn't think the episode was as bad as some people do, but that's only because my expectations of the show as a whole have already been lowered. At its best, this show has been on the level of a weak season two episode. Sad.
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yaxomoxay
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Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby yaxomoxay » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:02 am

I defended and loved every episode so far, but the second half of episode 12 was bad. Second half of season 2 bad. I mean, still better than 90% of what's on TV, but this time around I enjoyed more GOT over TP (blasphemy!!!).



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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby mtwentz » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:04 am

Gabriel wrote:
Agent327 wrote:I think Audrey's acting was good actually. Maybe that's just me.

But the scene, the WRITING, the direction, the pacing, was horrifically dull.

This was an episode I would be embarrassed to show to anyone who knows I'm a Twin Peaks fan.


I guess Audrey grew Evil Coop's monster spawn inside her and has been left a bitter, nasty piece of work. The scene left a bad taste in my mouth. For me, I'd rather not have seen Audrey at all rather than this bitter harridan. The scene could literally have been rewritten from a scene with Frank Truman and his wife. In fact, the wives all seem to remind me of the monstrous wives often seen in Laurel and Hardy films.

I didn't think the episode was as bad as some people do, but that's only because my expectations of the show as a whole have already been lowered. At its best, this show has been on the level of a weak season two episode. Sad.


Gabriel, you're back!
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby ravingnightmare » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:11 am

Well, it took me 12 episodes but count me in this group... :( :( :( :(
Let's be completely honest, movie execs get a lot of heat when a movie or show fails. You hear arguments like they didn't allow the director to create his world and whatnot. This is a prime example of when they should've stepped in. I love Lynch and Twin Peaks to death, but stop defending this season. Enough is enough. No more excuses. I have been introduced to like 20-30 new characters and at this point, I can name 4-5 of them. That should tell you something. Part my French but who the fuck is Clarke, Tina, Chuck, and a plethora of other names we've heard.

Things like sweeping the floor, staring at each other, Candie (need I say anything?) is what ultimately led me here. I am a patient man, I really man. Hell, I have watched 12 episodes before coming to this thread.

Many of the actors showed massive support to Lynch when Showtime was negotiating with him. Saying stuff like Twin Peaks is not the same with Lynch. It makes it even more painful to go through this.

My initial warning sign that I initially suppressed was the arm, or should I say, a giant chewed gumball. I said to myself fuck it, it's his artistic take which I will surely appreciate later on. I have no real issues with the Dougie character. Lots of funny moments. But we all want to see Special Agent Dale Cooper. Not during the last episode or/if they have planned to give him to us a bit earlier. I think the show would've nurtured and grown a lot more if Cooper would've woken up earlier from this zombie state. Telling his story of what's it like being in the Black Lodge for 25 years and slowly and surely gathering what he has missed in the "real world" for these years. You can cover a lot of episodes doing that.

I love Lynch and I love Twin Peaks. Episode 8 was in my opinion an epic and monumental episode. Some great moments in other episodes as well but the rest... is now turning to be unbearable..
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Rialto » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:39 am

Hi ravingnightmare - welcome to the club.

Still, we all wish it were the other way around, and we'd been driven to the 'pro' threads, having been won over by Lynch's master plan, rather than seeing you here!

*sigh*
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Rialto » Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:45 am

Rhodes wrote:
Rialto wrote:
Rhodes wrote: How could they have used Peggy Lipton in a better way, if she's such a good example of what you're arguing? She is a WAITRESS!!! And the story is about Cooper's return to the real world (and ALSO a bit about mobsters, etc.). She doesn't fit into that.m


That's a really weird thing to say. Why should Norma being a waitress preclude her from having an interesting life, or a story? The original TP was full of the stories of waitresses, small town doctors, perfume counter salesgirls and housewives.


I think I explained it rather well (if I can say so myself :wink: ), but you quote only a piece of what I said.

In the ORIGINAL RUN, it made sense that all of these people had important storylines. Because they were all connected somehow to Laura. Donna was her best friend, James her boyfriend, Big Ed a bookhouse boy, Norma working with her on meals on wheels, etc. Of course they were NOT gonna show random TP-citizens that had NO relevance.

However, this does not necessarily work for a sequal. If you have to use exactly the same set of characters, but they have nothing to do with Coopers exit from the lodge or the FBI or organized crime, how can they be central to the story? It can be done of course (as I explained). If you are willing to go as low as: "Audrey is now head of the FBI", "Norma is possessed by BOB", "James is after 25 years still obsessed with Laura and what happened to her diary". I don't think that's the level of writing that we should be welcoming, but that's the only way all the old characters can be integrated in the new central story. As I said earlier, then you end up with Ridge, Thorne, Eric, Taylor and Brooke all marrying one another all the time.

Still, I am very happy that they included the old characters. Because the town of Twin Peaks is still a somewhat big part of The Return. That being the case, I prefer Norma over another random waitress in the RR. I like seeing James two or three times. And along the way, we learn a thing or two about these characters and what happened to them during the last 25 years. For me it's not fanservice, but a little bonus to the show. But that's as far as it should go, little gifts/bonusses. The core of The Return should not about Norma and whether or not she is with Ed. The Return should not about Donna en James' children. The Return should not be about Audrey's brilliant carreer. We SHOULD see James two or three or four times, but not 40 times. That would be lazy and uninteresting writing.


Rhodes, I know we've moved on a bit now, but I still find it a bizarre way of looking at the show - that there's no way they could have used more of the old characters without descending into contrived nonsense such as 'Audrey is now head of the FBI', or everyone still being obsessed with Laura.

It seems to be a running theme with all those coming onto the thread to argue that series 3 is great - it could 'only' be the way it is, or end up as a contrived pastiche full of ridiculous storylines and old characters shoehorned in. It's a weird false binary.

Season 3 didn't exist until recently. It could have been anything.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Redlodge » Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:39 am

rugerblackhawk357 wrote:
Redlodge wrote:Episode 12 is in the can still no Coop


breaking bad got awesome 4 episodes in. 18. f***ing episodes. 18. we waited 20 years for 18 episodes. want to know my plotline for episodes 1-4? hawk and harry realize the bad coop is on the loose and committing unspeakable crimes. they find a way to break good coop out of the black lodge. 4 episodes down, 14 left to explore this deep, rich, complex wine that we call bordeaux lynch. good coop vs. bad coop. just sayin.



Breaking Bad was genius and ran for several season.
Unless Lynch is going to surprise everyone with a season 4 then things need to move faster. I understand it's his baby and he can do what he wants but when the only scene in part 12 is Coop getting hit with a baseball I'm sorry that's not what I had envisioned. I want to stay positive I really do but with no real sign of Good Cooper in any real capacity I'm getting very frustrated. I still like parts of the new series but there's only 6 episodes left and we haven't seen Dopplecooper at all since episode 9. I am to the point now where I am seriously considering not watching the rest of the series. Every Sunday I have hope and every Sunday it is dashed. I waited 26 years for this ?
Maybe the whole thing is a joke I don't know but if Coop isn't back next episode I'm done.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby depechehenke » Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:53 am

I very much look forward to new GOT episodes come Mondays. Twin Peaks not so much.
Somethings tells me that I'm in for another "treat" tonight given the...ahem...not that positive comments regarding the latest episode.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby mlsstwrt » Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:57 am

depechehenke wrote:I very much look forward to new GOT episodes come Mondays. Twin Peaks not so much.
Somethings tells me that I'm in for another "treat" tonight given the...ahem...not that positive comments regarding the latest episode.


It starts pretty well. But by the end you probably won't be very happy.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Agent327 » Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:16 am

ravingnightmare wrote:Things like sweeping the floor, staring at each other, Candie (need I say anything?) is what ultimately led me here. I am a patient man, I really man. Hell, I have watched 12 episodes before coming to this thread.

Many of the actors showed massive support to Lynch when Showtime was negotiating with him. Saying stuff like Twin Peaks is not the same with Lynch. It makes it even more painful to go through this. .


To me, it's like watching an athlete way past his prime.

We as fans desperately want to love it, there is every psychological incentive to do so. We want to be part of a positive conversation, the speculations, the excitement, nothing quite like being excited about a wonderful piece of Lynch art. Even more so in the age of social media.

We're loaded with positive confirmation bias that the average viewer, who based on the numbers stopped watching very early this season, don't have.

But it's just not working.

The notoriously slow scenes are piling up, but even the ones we don't specifically highlight in writing as slow.....ARE slow.
The entire show has now wasted so much time, and trying to re-watch it actually makes it less interesting, because there's nothing you missed the first time.

I actually LOVED that slow frustrating scene with the giant waiter from the original run. I thought that was art and entertainment colliding. It seemed to serve a perverse purpose as Cooper was bleeding out. And it was ANYTHING but dull to watch.

To people who have only seen the original run, this season can best be summed up by that single scene 70 % of the time, but in a boring 'nothing at stake context'. Making it pointless and hard to sit through. Digitally shot and coldly presented. It's just not working.

To end on a positive note, I liked episode 11, perhaps my favorite of "The Return". And it can ONLY improve once again after this dull train-wreck.
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Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby yaxomoxay » Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:48 am

mlsstwrt wrote:
depechehenke wrote:I very much look forward to new GOT episodes come Mondays. Twin Peaks not so much.
Somethings tells me that I'm in for another "treat" tonight given the...ahem...not that positive comments regarding the latest episode.


It starts pretty well. But by the end you probably won't be very happy.


Agreed. The episode started very well, then it collapsed quickly.
Today I am a profoundly disappointed fan... but just today! ;)


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Jonah
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Jonah » Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:50 am

I was back on board with the closing scene of Episode 11. This one has left me mixed. I don't hate it as much as some do. I thought it was half great, half weak.

But overall....

There's definitely flashes of greatness in this revival, but Season 2 is looking better with every episode.

I think the revival would have worked a lot better if it had been 9 episodes as originally planned rather than the move to 18 episodes.

I think when we all heard Lynch was directing it all it sounded too good to be true. We expected a full season filled with episodes like Episode 14 and Episode 29. But instead we're mostly getting the weaker parts of "Mulholland Drive", in my opinion.

Lynch is a genius, but he's not infallible. And I think sometimes too much Lynch can be too much.

That said, I'm trying to make the best of it. There's still a few scenes here and there that I think are great. But I think the structure of this thing and a lot of the plots and the in-your-face constant trolling/commentary on impatience is becoming very taxing.

The brilliance of the Sarah Palmer/Grace Zabriskie scenes in the most recent episode just underline to me again that it was a mistake to 1) Not primarily set the show in Twin Peaks and 2) Not to focus primarily on some of the original cast. It didn't have to be a cozy, cherry pie nostalgia trip, but a stronger focus on these core elements and the passage of time would have made a stronger show imo.

But overall I think the 400-page script was designed to be 9 episodes and stretching it to 18 has really weakened the show. I'm not fully against it, there's still much to like, but it's like slogging through a very weak series to get little nuggets of promise and brilliance here and there. If this doesn't massively pick up in the last few episodes, I think this may tarnish the legacy of the show.

p.s. Good to see you back Gabriel!
Last edited by Jonah on Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
mlsstwrt
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby mlsstwrt » Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:53 am

yaxomoxay wrote:
mlsstwrt wrote:
depechehenke wrote:I very much look forward to new GOT episodes come Mondays. Twin Peaks not so much.
Somethings tells me that I'm in for another "treat" tonight given the...ahem...not that positive comments regarding the latest episode.


It starts pretty well. But by the end you probably won't be very happy.


Agreed. The episode started very well, then it collapsed quickly.
Today I am a profoundly disappointed fan... but just today! ;)


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Ah this is a great day yaxomoxay. We will enjoy having you part of us until next Sunday!
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yaxomoxay
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Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby yaxomoxay » Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:59 am

mlsstwrt wrote:
yaxomoxay wrote:
mlsstwrt wrote:
It starts pretty well. But by the end you probably won't be very happy.


Agreed. The episode started very well, then it collapsed quickly.
Today I am a profoundly disappointed fan... but just today! ;)


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Ah this is a great day yaxomoxay. We will enjoy having you part of us until next Sunday!


Well let me defend Lynch on Episode 12: "He knew that most fans loved the previous 11 episodes, so he created the second half of episode 12 to let his fans know how the Profoundly Disappointed thread group feel like. Lynch is all inclusive!" ;)

Love the series but that was just bad. As soon as the episode ended my wife said "this one wasn't that good" to which I replied "actually, most of it was shit." I think she was shocked that I said something bad about TP3 lol.
I enjoyed some parts (Sarah Palmer!), but I give this episode 4/10 stars.



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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby squealy » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:20 am

Agent327 wrote:I actually LOVED that slow frustrating scene with the giant waiter from the original run. I thought that was art and entertainment colliding. It seemed to serve a perverse purpose as Cooper was bleeding out. And it was ANYTHING but dull to watch.

And, it was one scene in one episode, and there wasn't really another one like it until 20 episodes later. In the new series it feels like we're watching three sequences like that every week.

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