Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

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RedRum
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by RedRum »

judasbooth wrote:Hello everyone. Can I just say that I'm really glad I found this place? Count me as another of the Profoundly Disappointed, I'm afraid.
I'm a long time Lynch fan. Twin Peaks hold a special place in my heart, and has done for a very long time. I persisted with this new series for as long as I could, but honestly, the time has come to admit to myself the ugly truth.

It's awful.

Profoundly disappointed? Yep.
Welcome and Glad to know you.

The thread is absolutely full of well written well thought out posts like yours, then there are the die hard can't face the truth types... which they deny is the case lol :)

Anyway Thank you for posting this, it expands upon my thoughts precisely.

A Big Thumbs Up!
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by RedRum »

yaxomoxay wrote:
referendum wrote:Andy has turned into stan laurel.
Andy, the guy that was chasing a bottle of his own sperm in a Sheriff department while on the clock?


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I just can't get over that Beer Belly.... I mean Thats some guzzeling!
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RedRum
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by RedRum »

boske wrote:Persistence does pay off, the reward is right around the corner!

Part 2: Ray, I want those coordinates;
Part 8: Ray, I want those coordinates;
Part 13: Ray, I want those coordinates;

Once I take the experimental elements out of the script, the rest is simply shallow, boring, and predictable. Minus the dandruff part, there is no way that anyone could have predicted that. :lol:
I think there is only story enough for 9 episodes, if you remember David spat his dummy out and left the project until Showtime gave him a run of 18. They agreed because he made the case he can't finish it in 9.

Ironicly what we got was enough content for 9 episodes with 9 episodes worth of Lynchian filler.

A but like buying a grab bag to share and opening it and finding the same content as the normal bag and the extra space just taken up with air.

Who remembers this?



Actually I think it would have been MUCH MUCH better if Lynch had taken less of a role in this project.....
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Guardian »

Metamorphia wrote:It being "ugly" cinematographically: well yes, it looks nowhere near as cinematic or polished as shows like Fargo or True Detective etc. But from the early 00s forward Lynch has embraced the very raw look of digital, dating right back to its consumer beginnings. And complaints about bad CGI are imo completely worthless ones, because he's using CGI in exactly the same way he's used practical effects and paint and clay right back from Eraserhead through into the terrible composite face shots in the Twin Peaks pilot into Robert Blake in Lost Highway into the jitterbug in MD... it's just done digitally instead. When Dougie's melted into the little gold ball it is meant to look as crude and ridiculous as it does.
Yes, Lynch embraces the raw look of digital, and instead of color grading the image to look as fantastic as his movies shot on film from the 1980 - 2000 (including the original Twin Peaks), he just slaps on an strange color filter, like yellow or blue on the raw digital picture.
And what effect has that had?
Well, IMO, the ugly, ungraded, flat, dead digital picture in The Return, makes it look like a staged, amatuerish and boring documentary behind the scene kind of thing, or even just feel artificial. That kind of look is absolutely devoiding any mood/atmosphere in the show, which the original run (and Lynch movies shot on film) is so famous for capturing and communicating.
Even when The Return seemingly tries to set some kind of mood/atmosphere by showing misty woods or mountains, it all look so boring and flat, and unengaging.
Hasn't David Lynch talked about how essential it is to have a mood, that in all his films the mood is very important? (Something of those lines).
In The Return, I almost feel no mood whatsoever; no old mood, no new mood. Just nothingness and emptiness. I almost get no emotional reaction to anything, except for irritation on how the show is designed. And that I believe is in large part due to the digital artificial picture (and lack of music too, btw).

As for your view on the special effects, I disagree completely.
Eraserhead – he did what he could with the little budget that he had. Dune, he actually wanted better effects, but the budget was already stretched.
And what do you mean by the terrible composite face shots in the Pilot? I don't really see any bad effects in The Pilot. Lost Highway had good effects IMO, nothing there that was seemingly made to actually look artificial by Lynch. MD didn't have any bad special effects eighter, IMO.
The Return, however, is full of irritating "bad effects", and along with the flat digital picture it's ruining the viewing experience. I'm left as a viewer cringing or laughing. When you deliberately show ridiculously bad effects, and jerky framrate, are you not then just telling the viewer to not take it seriously, that the whole thing is just a joke? Is that what Lynch wanted? And the new look of the Red Room...jeez, has Lynch ruined that place.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by referendum »

RedRum wrote:
yaxomoxay wrote:
referendum wrote:Andy has turned into stan laurel.
Andy, the guy that was chasing a bottle of his own sperm in a Sheriff department while on the clock?


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I just can't get over that Beer Belly.... I mean Thats some guzzeling!
i thought he retired from acting for 20 years to be a farmer or something? That belly is authentic!
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by waferwhitemilk »

To me this thread is a lot more interesting than the main one for epi 13 anyway where i swear they've been discussing a digital glitch that you can't even see for like the last 10 pages or more! A lot of that kind of speculation reminds me of the iamaphoney phenomenon from around 2006 or so where they rebooted the 'paul is dead' rumours by going every frame of every Paul McCartney footage looking at the minutest details. That certainly wasn't what the original Twin Peaks seasons were about imo, where you could definitely speculate about what it all meant 'n' stuff but where noone was freezeframing looking at what kind of position the clock was in that or that scene in relation to the color of the tablecloth two episodes prior etc.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by mlsstwrt »

I don't get that either. And I think sometimes they give Lynch too much credit, like everything must be deliberate and well thought out. As much as I like him I find Lynch more capable of sloppiness than a Vince Gilligan, say (although to be clear at its best I like Twin Peaks 100x more than BB or BCS).

There are a lot of out and out nerds on Dugpa I have to say.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Venus »

waferwhitemilk wrote:To me this thread is a lot more interesting than the main one for epi 13 anyway where i swear they've been discussing a digital glitch that you can't even see for like the last 10 pages or more! A lot of that kind of speculation reminds me of the iamaphoney phenomenon from around 2006 or so where they rebooted the 'paul is dead' rumours by going every frame of every Paul McCartney footage looking at the minutest details. That certainly wasn't what the original Twin Peaks seasons were about imo, where you could definitely speculate about what it all meant 'n' stuff but where noone was freezeframing looking at what kind of position the clock was in that or that scene in relation to the color of the tablecloth two episodes prior etc.
I saw that and I saw discussion re the flashing windows on the private jet. Did that actually end up meaning anything?
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by boske »

Venus wrote:
waferwhitemilk wrote:To me this thread is a lot more interesting than the main one for epi 13 anyway where i swear they've been discussing a digital glitch that you can't even see for like the last 10 pages or more! A lot of that kind of speculation reminds me of the iamaphoney phenomenon from around 2006 or so where they rebooted the 'paul is dead' rumours by going every frame of every Paul McCartney footage looking at the minutest details. That certainly wasn't what the original Twin Peaks seasons were about imo, where you could definitely speculate about what it all meant 'n' stuff but where noone was freezeframing looking at what kind of position the clock was in that or that scene in relation to the color of the tablecloth two episodes prior etc.
I saw that and I saw discussion re the flashing windows on the private jet. Did that actually end up meaning anything?
There is a long post here http://welcometotwinpeaks.com/theories/ ... dows-code/

Does it mean anything? Maybe. Or it could have been done plainly, as some posters would say in other threads, "for mood".

Both that and the Gas Station glitch (which may or may not mean anything) are a symptom of a mind looking for meaning in content that lacks it. Twin Peaks is supposed to be deep, moody, and mysterious, and when we cannot find any such obvious connections at a macro level, we merely "zoom in" and repeat at a micro level hoping to "make sense of it", as Dougie would put it. :D The viewer needs to be rewarded and the reward is not coming, the heavens are empty. Another wild goose chase?
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Aqwell »

waferwhitemilk wrote:i swear they've been discussing a digital glitch that you can't even see for like the last 10 pages or more!
To be fair, even on my modest laptop I was able to see it (after hearing about it in a review on youtube). And Big Ed Hurley's facial expression can easily be interpreted as a reaction to his own reflection. But even if it is deliberate what would be the point of all of this little easter eggs/glitches? It adds nothing to the plot and has no logical explanation. I prefer to believe that's just meaningless post-production errors rather than L&F having fun with the fans.
I saw that and I saw discussion re the flashing windows on the private jet. Did that actually end up meaning anything?
The windows reflect the sun, and if it seems a bit odd to some it can be because the jet is all CG's, so is the flashing effect on the windows. This, or dirty bearded men are fooling with us and hide secret messages everywhere in the series...
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by RedRum »

Aqwell wrote:The windows reflect the sun, and if it seems a bit odd to some it can be because the jet is all CG's, so is the flashing effect on the windows. This, or dirty bearded men are fooling with us and hide secret messages everywhere in the series...
I have a feeling that season 3 is being shown out of order in terms of timeline and the ending will be a replay of some of the scenes we have already seen (lol) but this time in order.... Like perhaps through the lodges.

Its the only way I can see from here as to how L&F can pull off a good enough ending for the series to be meaningfull.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by TheMx »

I've just realized that I'm in your camp. I love a lot of bits and pieces of The Return - but when I think about all the parts so far as an ongoing piece of work, I can't pretend I'm into it anymore.
There's so many wasted opportunites, so much wasted screentime...

After TSHOTP, which I found quite underwhelming and at times irritating, I should have been warned. But I decided to ignore my troubles with book, just to get disappointed again.

The original series' sum was a lot more than its parts. Like an impressive magic trick that worked for all of S1 and most of S2. So far, nothing of The Return came close to that kind of synergy.
There might be a small chance that the remaining 4 episodes will turn everything upside down and bring some of that magic back for the Return as a whole, but I'm loosing my faith in that.

Many here and elsewhere compare The Return to Inland Empire, and I don't really agree with that. Surrealism and insane "plot" aside, IE had a convincing, consistent mood and flow. And that's what's sorely missing here. I'd definitely take an IE style TP over what we've got so far.

As some have stated, at least it will be very interesting to learn more about what happened behind the scenes.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by boske »

Rialto wrote:Random thought: is Norma's extra special cherry pie, made with local, organic ingredients, the only thing that can bring Coop back from Dougie-land?
Please don't fall into that trap, that's what L&F want you to do! They want you to spend all of your time thinking what will wake Dougie up and when, when they have no intention of making it happen until the very end, even if then.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by AhmedKhalifa »

I think it's also bizarre that detractors of THE RETURN are criticized for being nostalgic for favoring the original series. While the diehard supporters of THE RETURN keep saying that Lynch is returning to the styles and motifs of ERASERHEAD and his short films, which they love!!! How's that not being nostalgic, too??

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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by mlsstwrt »

AhmedKhalifa wrote:I think it's also bizarre that detractors of THE RETURN are criticized for being nostalgic for favoring the original series. While the diehard supporters of THE RETURN keep saying that Lynch is returning to the styles and motifs of ERASERHEAD and his short films, which they love!!! How's that not being nostalgic, too??

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Yeah this is what I've been thinking. Also notice that these same people practically cream themselves as soon as some of the old music comes on or we see a much loved character make their return appearance.
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