Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

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boske
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by boske »

IcedOver wrote:As far as boske's point, that's not totally what I meant. This is a terrible example of the most standard plot structure (which of course can be the best if done right), and I've been to several others this year as bad or almost so. Despite its myriad flaws, or maybe even because of them and how messy "Return" was, it was more refreshing watching something that broke that formula than these horrible films.
Yes, agreed, there is absolutely no sense in disputing that.

For me the issue is not that I find TR all bad, people try and fail. But it is akin to having a very smart or a genius sibling or child that purposely ruins something to prove a point where there really was nothing to prove, and where they had all predispositions and a golden opportunity to create a great piece of art, and yet the end result was, contrary to boasting, rather sterile and embarrassing.

Let us assume that Lynch did direct Return of the Jedi, as Mr. Reindeer wondered a few pages back. :D Yes, there was the expectation that Luke would face Vader and then the Emperor, and he did. Now imagine that instead R2-D2 leaked some engine oil (maybe scorched! :wink:) that the Emperor then slipped on accidentally and fell down that shaft? And that Vader accidentally turned the light sabre the other way around before he lit it up and thus performed an accidental Hara-kiri. Yes, that sure beats expectations, but would it have made it a better movie? Would it have been really that bad to have Coop and Mr. C go at it somehow? Maybe just inside of the lodge, there sure are ways of coming up with some creative situations resulting in something that would be talked for another 25 years. That's the crux of the matter, but I can certainly respect that some people, or more what looks like a 3/4 majority do not have a problem with that.
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eyeboogers
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by eyeboogers »

boske wrote: Would it have been really that bad to have Coop and Mr. C go at it somehow? .
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boske
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by boske »

Sure, why not. As long as Mr. C was giddy and hysterical. ;-)
Agent Earle
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Agent Earle »

IcedOver wrote:
Agent Earle wrote:I'm curious, how does The Shape of Water compare to Pan's Labyrinth, if you've seen it, which is, in my opinion, a masterpiece?
I'm not that big a fan of "Pan's" anyway; if it had been in English, I doubt it would have been as acclaimed in America. "Shape" I think is del Toro's worst, although I've never viewed "Mimic" or "Blade II". I found nothing of value in it. The heroes are complete non-entities, and the sentiment is forced and not even well done enough to rate as sickening. The movie clearly comes from an unpleasant SJW perspective on del Toro's part. Michael Shannon (wow, really inspired casting) plays the villain with zero subtlety. As far as boske's point, that's not totally what I meant. This is a terrible example of the most standard plot structure (which of course can be the best if done right), and I've been to several others this year as bad or almost so. Despite its myriad flaws, or maybe even because of them and how messy "Return" was, it was more refreshing watching something that broke that formula than these horrible films.

Thanks for the reply. Well, since I have nothing but good things to say about Pan (I do think it's the somewhat over-rated del Toro's best movie by miles) and I adore Michael Shannon (currently having a blast making my way through Boardwalk Empire and, boy, is this guy intense! I've yet to see a production in which he fails to deliver, and I've seen a good bunch of them), I'll give The Shape a whirl - chances are I'll end up liking it much more than you did, given how it's been likened to Pan.
LateReg
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by LateReg »

Agent Earle wrote:
IcedOver wrote: Watching a horrible example of a "typical" movie recently, "The Shape of Water", made me appreciate "Return" more. "Shape" is a by-the-numbers, bland, predictable film with forced sentiment. I wouldn't care if it weren't acclaimed as one of the best of the year. If this is what's considered good, I'll take "Return" any day over it, extreme problems and all. Whether the dropped plotlines, plot holes, and poor characterization were intentional or the result of a hurried and poorly planned production, sometimes that level of non-narrative is preferable to a totally straightforward narrative that has zero imagination and doesn't inspire you to think about it more than a minute after it's over (as is the case with del Toro's horrid film). I'll take Dougie staring at a wall and eating cake for two hours over it and some of the other exposition-heavy garbage from this year.
I'm curious, how does The Shape of Water compare to Pan's Labyrinth, if you've seen it, which is, in my opinion, a masterpiece?
I saw The Shape of Water this weekend, and I thought it was very good. Beautiful, wondrous stuff. Classical Hollywood homage, unclassifiably genre-bending, meaningful. Not as good as Pan's Labyrinth, which I agree is a masterpiece. But Shape is upper tier Guillermo del Toro, his best since Pan's.

As far as the topic of how much thought Lynch/Frost put into the little details, if you watch the documentary on the new Blu-ray, it's very apparent that Lynch knows exactly what he wants from each scene, has everything mapped out in his mind. The intensity with which he stares at Sherilyn Fenn during her scenes, making sure that every line of dialogue is delivered precisely how he envisions it, or how he makes sure that Tom Sizemore doesn't emphasize the word "me" when speaking to Dougie (an absolutely telling detail, imo!), or how many scenes from the script are randomly brought up which Lynch knows top to bottom and backwards, or countless other examples show that Lynch is very attentive to detail, and that those details mean something to him. Just because it may mean something different to us or appear to have no meaning doesn't mean that it doesn't mean something very precise to Lynch, on at least some level. I was astounded watching the making-of features precisely because of how intensely detail-oriented Lynch appeared.
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LateReg
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by LateReg »

Robin Davies wrote:
eyeboogers wrote:Remember her terror at seeing the Judy symbol at the store?
What Judy symbol?
I believe he's referring to the triangle shaped horned symbol on the jerky packages. Which happens to be right next to the word "albatross," which fits perfectly.
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mtwentz
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by mtwentz »

IcedOver wrote:
Agent Earle wrote:I'm curious, how does The Shape of Water compare to Pan's Labyrinth, if you've seen it, which is, in my opinion, a masterpiece?
I'm not that big a fan of "Pan's" anyway; if it had been in English, I doubt it would have been as acclaimed in America. "Shape" I think is del Toro's worst, although I've never viewed "Mimic" or "Blade II". I found nothing of value in it. The heroes are complete non-entities, and the sentiment is forced and not even well done enough to rate as sickening. The movie clearly comes from an unpleasant SJW perspective on del Toro's part. Michael Shannon (wow, really inspired casting) plays the villain with zero subtlety. As far as boske's point, that's not totally what I meant. This is a terrible example of the most standard plot structure (which of course can be the best if done right), and I've been to several others this year as bad or almost so. Despite its myriad flaws, or maybe even because of them and how messy "Return" was, it was more refreshing watching something that broke that formula than these horrible films.
"Mimic" had the potential to be a great film in the horror genre, and it still pretty much is IMHO, except for the phony 'happy' ending shoehorned in by the Weinsteins. del Toro's original ending was fairly bleak, albeit ambiguous, and fit much better with the tone of the rest of the film.

As far as 'Pan' goes, I thought it was a good film, but not one I particularly feel like viewing a second time. I just saw it recently so maybe I'll feel different a year from now.
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AnotherBlueRoseCase
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by AnotherBlueRoseCase »

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Deep Thought
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by Deep Thought »

AnotherBlueRoseCase wrote:ill-conceived, underdeveloped, poorly-scripted, inanely lit, farcically-acted, glacially-paced, dead-air-filled, incoherent, meaningless Camp
I guess the first and third can be put forth as legitimate criticisms, but the rest of those are a preference thing, more or less. Except for the acting and lighting comments, you may just as well be describing a lot of 20th century music, like say "Music in 12 Parts," a lasting masterpiece, imo.

Do you really think the lighting was inane? Is that a factor of the digital photography you think, or do you mean the "cartoony" aspect of some of the lighting? "Cartoony" - "contrasty," something like that anyway.
There's your roast beef and cheese.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by LurkerAtTheThreshold »

The heats been off for several months now.

Just tried to rewatch TPS3 and unfortunately came to disappoint you ardent defenders... can you now deny this is one of the most bor Ng pieces of fiction you’ve ever endured?
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yaxomoxay
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by yaxomoxay »

LurkerAtTheThreshold wrote:The heats been off for several months now.

Just tried to rewatch TPS3 and unfortunately came to disappoint you ardent defenders... can you now deny this is one of the most bor Ng pieces of fiction you’ve ever endured?
Since you ask to us defenders... nope. I just disagree with you :) I keep watching bits and pieces and I still love it.
As a matter of fact two days ago I stumbled over the two minute long sweeping scene. I laughed hard, really really hard. I loved it :)
At any rate, I am sorry you don’t like it, but kudos to you for investing more time on something you did not enjoy.


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LurkerAtTheThreshold
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by LurkerAtTheThreshold »

yaxomoxay wrote:
LurkerAtTheThreshold wrote:The heats been off for several months now.

Just tried to rewatch TPS3 and unfortunately came to disappoint you ardent defenders... can you now deny this is one of the most bor Ng pieces of fiction you’ve ever endured?
Since you ask to us defenders... nope. I just disagree with you :) I keep watching bits and pieces and I still love it.
As a matter of fact two days ago I stumbled over the two minute long sweeping scene. I laughed hard, really really hard. I loved it :)
At any rate, I am sorry you don’t like it, but kudos to you for investing more time on something you did not enjoy.


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This is like asking a P**** whipped guy about his relationship with his girlfriend.

No worries bro.
Glad you liked it.
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yaxomoxay
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by yaxomoxay »

LurkerAtTheThreshold wrote:
yaxomoxay wrote:
LurkerAtTheThreshold wrote:The heats been off for several months now.

Just tried to rewatch TPS3 and unfortunately came to disappoint you ardent defenders... can you now deny this is one of the most bor Ng pieces of fiction you’ve ever endured?
Since you ask to us defenders... nope. I just disagree with you :) I keep watching bits and pieces and I still love it.
As a matter of fact two days ago I stumbled over the two minute long sweeping scene. I laughed hard, really really hard. I loved it :)
At any rate, I am sorry you don’t like it, but kudos to you for investing more time on something you did not enjoy.


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This is like asking a P**** whipped guy about his relationship with his girlfriend.

No worries bro.
Glad you liked it.
We all have our own fetish :)


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LurkerAtTheThreshold
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by LurkerAtTheThreshold »

yaxomoxay wrote:
LurkerAtTheThreshold wrote:
yaxomoxay wrote:
Since you ask to us defenders... nope. I just disagree with you :) I keep watching bits and pieces and I still love it.
As a matter of fact two days ago I stumbled over the two minute long sweeping scene. I laughed hard, really really hard. I loved it :)
At any rate, I am sorry you don’t like it, but kudos to you for investing more time on something you did not enjoy.


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This is like asking a P**** whipped guy about his relationship with his girlfriend.

No worries bro.
Glad you liked it.
We all have our own fetish :)


Actually it’s nice to speak to a Twin Peaks fan this far after the fact. It’s inteersting huh. What a wild ride? What’s your feeling about #metoo #timesup James Franco Anzio Ansari etc. lynch has gotta he next in line. But it’s all good

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yaxomoxay
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Post by yaxomoxay »

LurkerAtTheThreshold wrote:
yaxomoxay wrote:
LurkerAtTheThreshold wrote:
This is like asking a P**** whipped guy about his relationship with his girlfriend.

No worries bro.
Glad you liked it.
We all have our own fetish :)


Actually it’s nice to speak to a Twin Peaks fan this far after the fact. It’s inteersting huh. What a wild ride? What’s your feeling about #metoo #timesup James Franco Anzio Ansari etc. lynch has gotta he next in line. But it’s all good

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To be honest with you, I don’t really care much about celebrities. Including Lynch. If he did something wrong, he should pay for it. Don’t care how much I love/hate his work. I care about the movie I am watching, and I don’t see how their personal lives has any relevance on my enjoyment of somebody’s work. HP Lovecraft was a xenophobe, yet his stories and his letters are literary gems. Should I stop enjoying his writings because he was a racist? Nah.



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