Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group

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LurkerAtTheThreshold
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby LurkerAtTheThreshold » Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:52 am

yaxomoxay wrote:
LurkerAtTheThreshold wrote:
yaxomoxay wrote:
We all have our own fetish :)


Actually it’s nice to speak to a Twin Peaks fan this far after the fact. It’s inteersting huh. What a wild ride? What’s your feeling about #metoo #timesup James Franco Anzio Ansari etc. lynch has gotta he next in line. But it’s all good

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To be honest with you, I don’t really care much about celebrities. Including Lynch. If he did something wrong, he should pay for it. Don’t care how much I love/hate his work. I care about the movie I am watching, and I don’t see how their personal lives has any relevance on my enjoyment of somebody’s work. HP Lovecraft was a xenophobe, yet his stories and his letters are literary gems. Should I stop enjoying his writings because he was a racist? Nah.



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That’s a good point. For instance right now we have ‘The shape of water’ premiering. Now, The shadow over innsmouth notoriously follows on from this racist history of fish men being used as a symbol for inter racial sex/marriage/society. Guillermo del roto ya srexentlt shook this up with a very liberal perspective. Not only, do fish/women relationships no longer respresent archaic views of race (which is good imo) but also we are expected to view this inter species love as acceptable.

In my opinion, it’s a great time for extra species racists, because in fact... there are no fish people’s what that means, is it’s ok to be revolted watching a Human woman having sex with a fish man and there is actually no consequence. You do t have to feel bad.

Like you said. Art is art, and opinions are opinions.
Thank god we still live in a world where you can be repulsed by a fish man having sex with a Human woman
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby mtwentz » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:09 am

yaxomoxay wrote:
LurkerAtTheThreshold wrote:
yaxomoxay wrote:
We all have our own fetish :)


Actually it’s nice to speak to a Twin Peaks fan this far after the fact. It’s inteersting huh. What a wild ride? What’s your feeling about #metoo #timesup James Franco Anzio Ansari etc. lynch has gotta he next in line. But it’s all good

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


To be honest with you, I don’t really care much about celebrities. Including Lynch. If he did something wrong, he should pay for it. Don’t care how much I love/hate his work. I care about the movie I am watching, and I don’t see how their personal lives has any relevance on my enjoyment of somebody’s work. HP Lovecraft was a xenophobe, yet his stories and his letters are literary gems. Should I stop enjoying his writings because he was a racist? Nah.



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for the record, a lot of people think it's not fair to lump in Anzio Ansari with some of the others. I think his case is somewhat of a gray area, assuming his accuser's account is true.
"Dougie is COOPER? How the Hell is this!?"
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mtwentz
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby mtwentz » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:16 am

yaxomoxay wrote:
LurkerAtTheThreshold wrote:
yaxomoxay wrote:
Since you ask to us defenders... nope. I just disagree with you :) I keep watching bits and pieces and I still love it.
As a matter of fact two days ago I stumbled over the two minute long sweeping scene. I laughed hard, really really hard. I loved it :)
At any rate, I am sorry you don’t like it, but kudos to you for investing more time on something you did not enjoy.


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This is like asking a P**** whipped guy about his relationship with his girlfriend.

No worries bro.
Glad you liked it.


We all have our own fetish :)


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I can actually understand why some fans of the old series did not like The Return as a whole. It's very different from the original in many ways, not the least of which is less than half of the show takes place in the town we all grew to love and some of our most beloved characters got very little screen time. It also has a lot of experimental storytelling, one which many find frustrating but I personally found fascinating AND frustrating at the same time. This was never going to be every Peaksters cup of tea.

What I don't understand is any long time Peakster who could not take something of value from the show. You may hate Wally Brando, but certainly you could at the same appreciate the Purple Room scene, a worthy successor to the Black Lodge scenes of 1991, or all of Episode 8, and the eerie humor of the Woodsman asking, 'Gotta light'? Or Cooper's face superimposed over the final Sherriff's station scene, 'We live inside a dream', or '1-1-9'.
"Dougie is COOPER? How the Hell is this!?"
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby LurkerAtTheThreshold » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:18 am

mtwentz wrote:
yaxomoxay wrote:
LurkerAtTheThreshold wrote:


To be honest with you, I don’t really care much about celebrities. Including Lynch. If he did something wrong, he should pay for it. Don’t care how much I love/hate his work. I care about the movie I am watching, and I don’t see how their personal lives has any relevance on my enjoyment of somebody’s work. HP Lovecraft was a xenophobe, yet his stories and his letters are literary gems. Should I stop enjoying his writings because he was a racist? Nah.



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for the record, a lot of people think it's not fair to lump in Anzio Ansari with some of the others. I think his case is somewhat of a gray area, assuming his accuser's account is true.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby LurkerAtTheThreshold » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:25 am

mtwentz wrote:
yaxomoxay wrote:
LurkerAtTheThreshold wrote:


To be honest with you, I don’t really care much about celebrities. Including Lynch. If he did something wrong, he should pay for it. Don’t care how much I love/hate his work. I care about the movie I am watching, and I don’t see how their personal lives has any relevance on my enjoyment of somebody’s work. HP Lovecraft was a xenophobe, yet his stories and his letters are literary gems. Should I stop enjoying his writings because he was a racist? Nah.



It’s a big mistake, pursuing justice over the Internet, by subverting the normal channels unfortunately there’s a good chance of losing the entire precedential history.

The saddest thing I think is that women go after the easy victims. Every body know the real rape cultures exist eternally at like Fox News, The local football club... but the target is always the Franco who has tried his best to follow every feminist protocol, and has infact actually followed directly womens advice, if they just admitted they wanted to asssasjnate powerful men who represented an agenda trey disagreed with... no one would help them anyway...



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for the record, a lot of people think it's not fair to lump in Anzio Ansari with some of the others. I think his case is somewhat of a gray area, assuming his accuser's account is true.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby LurkerAtTheThreshold » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:35 am

All men are rapists

All movies are lies

But don’t kid yourself, your parents will one day be covered in flies
Poiuyt
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Poiuyt » Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:43 am

mtwentz wrote:What I don't understand is any long time Peakster who could not take something of value from the show. You may hate Wally Brando, but certainly you could at the same appreciate the Purple Room scene, a worthy successor to the Black Lodge scenes of 1991, or all of Episode 8, and the eerie humor of the Woodsman asking, 'Gotta light'? Or Cooper's face superimposed over the final Sherriff's station scene, 'We live inside a dream', or '1-1-9'.


i agree with your general sentiment here, but cooper's "we live inside a dream" line just made me want to watch fire walk with me again, since bowie delivered it there with much more intensity and passion.

this will be an unpopular opinion, but the second half of part 8 bored me when it aired. sure, there was more to appreciate on a second viewing once i knew what was coming, and the stretch from mr. c and ray, through the nine inch nails performance and up to the trinity test, utterly captivated me. but that was the limited series for me in a nutshell: part amazing, part inducing me to look at the clock.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Gabriel » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:18 pm

Poiuyt wrote:
mtwentz wrote:What I don't understand is any long time Peakster who could not take something of value from the show. You may hate Wally Brando, but certainly you could at the same appreciate the Purple Room scene, a worthy successor to the Black Lodge scenes of 1991, or all of Episode 8, and the eerie humor of the Woodsman asking, 'Gotta light'? Or Cooper's face superimposed over the final Sherriff's station scene, 'We live inside a dream', or '1-1-9'.


i agree with your general sentiment here, but cooper's "we live inside a dream" line just made me want to watch fire walk with me again, since bowie delivered it there with much more intensity and passion.

this will be an unpopular opinion, but the second half of part 8 bored me when it aired. sure, there was more to appreciate on a second viewing once i knew what was coming, and the stretch from mr. c and ray, through the nine inch nails performance and up to the trinity test, utterly captivated me. but that was the limited series for me in a nutshell: part amazing, part inducing me to look at the clock.


At the end of the day, a golfer might get a hole in one, but otherwise get 17 triple bogeys. So, does the hole in one make it a good round?

Just because there are one or two tremendous moments in a show (actually, at its best, I felt TPTR merely had a couple of good moments) doesn’t make it a good show. I felt the same about Inland Empire and Mulholland Dr. Good moments, but overall, frustrating and dull.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Strawberry » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:31 pm

yaxomoxay wrote:To be honest with you, I don’t really care much about celebrities. Including Lynch. If he did something wrong, he should pay for it. Don’t care how much I love/hate his work. I care about the movie I am watching, and I don’t see how their personal lives has any relevance on my enjoyment of somebody’s work. HP Lovecraft was a xenophobe, yet his stories and his letters are literary gems. Should I stop enjoying his writings because he was a racist? Nah.

David Lynch on Harvey Weinstein, Sexual Harassment Scandals and The Golden Rule
Not taking any calls.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby mtwentz » Fri Jan 19, 2018 1:03 pm

Gabriel wrote:
Poiuyt wrote:
mtwentz wrote:What I don't understand is any long time Peakster who could not take something of value from the show. You may hate Wally Brando, but certainly you could at the same appreciate the Purple Room scene, a worthy successor to the Black Lodge scenes of 1991, or all of Episode 8, and the eerie humor of the Woodsman asking, 'Gotta light'? Or Cooper's face superimposed over the final Sherriff's station scene, 'We live inside a dream', or '1-1-9'.


i agree with your general sentiment here, but cooper's "we live inside a dream" line just made me want to watch fire walk with me again, since bowie delivered it there with much more intensity and passion.

this will be an unpopular opinion, but the second half of part 8 bored me when it aired. sure, there was more to appreciate on a second viewing once i knew what was coming, and the stretch from mr. c and ray, through the nine inch nails performance and up to the trinity test, utterly captivated me. but that was the limited series for me in a nutshell: part amazing, part inducing me to look at the clock.


At the end of the day, a golfer might get a hole in one, but otherwise get 17 triple bogeys. So, does the hole in one make it a good round?

Just because there are one or two tremendous moments in a show (actually, at its best, I felt TPTR merely had a couple of good moments) doesn’t make it a good show. I felt the same about Inland Empire and Mulholland Dr. Good moments, but overall, frustrating and dull.


I think it really depends from the viewers perspective whether the good outweighs the bad. If you felt there were only one or two good moments in TPTR, those two moments would have to literally rapture you up to heaven to make up for the rest of the 18 hours.

I think almost all of us can name movies, though, that although we don't like the movie or series as a whole, there is a scene or two that is really compelling and perhaps unforgettable. Or mabye we like half the movie and not the other half (as is the case with Full Metal Jacket for me), but the half we like makes the other half bearable.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:17 pm

mtwentz wrote:for the record, a lot of people think it's not fair to lump in Anzio Ansari with some of the others. I think his case is somewhat of a gray area, assuming his accuser's account is true.


Not wanting to derail the thread too much, I’ll avoid getting into the (IMO very healthy) larger social debate that has been surrounding the Ansari allegations. But I will link to this article: http://www.cosmopolitan.com/entertainme ... -feminism/

The author points out that Ansari (like Louis CK) has very publicly given a great deal of thought to the nuances of how technically/socially acceptable “in-bounds” male behavior can still be psychologically damaging to women, and both men profited by examining those themes (brilliantly, IMO) on television and in stand-up. So it’s tougher for them to plead ignorance that they misread cues or thought their behavior was fine.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Aqwell » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:37 am

mtwentz wrote:What I don't understand is any long time Peakster who could not take something of value from the show. You may hate Wally Brando, but certainly you could at the same appreciate the Purple Room scene, a worthy successor to the Black Lodge scenes of 1991, or all of Episode 8, and the eerie humor of the Woodsman asking, 'Gotta light'? Or Cooper's face superimposed over the final Sherriff's station scene, 'We live inside a dream', or '1-1-9'.
I think we all, at least, liked some scenes from the new season. I liked the glass box, purple room, Cooper escaping by the electricity socket, episode 8, the evolution of the arm, Cooper falling through space, the convenience store... Almost all the supernatural elements of the show, minus some choices I found awkward to say the least: the red curtain in broad daylight, the red curtain icon above the slot machines, the superimposed Blacklodge in Doogie's room, the "creation" of Laura... It kills magic a bit.

I liked Mr C, I found him more interesting than Doogie or even Cooper, oddly he's introduced just after a comic scene with Lucy, not the best choice either. Bobby crying after seeing Laura's photo, I'm totally ok with the idea, not with the result, and what scene follows that ? The Wally Brando one... From (intended) emotion to (intended) quirky humor. It could have worked...

I don't hate the visuals of the Bob Orb, it's eerie enough but it's not coherent with the previous seasons and I certainly don't like the final fist/glove fight in which Bob is defeated by a disposable character. Why did Cooper came back to himself to accomplish nothing? Two secondary comic relief characters beated the bad guys, again why? It's just some examples of a very long list of strange choices all along the season.

Also, why complicate the plot by mixing fantastic + dream + time travel + alternate reality?
The dream idea annihilates all interest to the story unless you discover the truth behind the dream (Mulholland Drive).
And if the world of Richard and Linda is in fact the real world, then Richard has very convoluted dreams with dozens of characters and intrigues...

Ok I said once that I like ASMR videos, but I expect more than relaxation of my mind when it comes to films and TV shows.
But obviously Lynch is not interested anymore in coherent storytelling, countryside mysteries and jazz music.
He still very likes ladies though, and... Vegas?
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby eyeboogers » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:52 pm

Aqwell wrote:I certainly don't like the final fist/glove fight in which Bob is defeated by a disposable character. Why did Cooper came back to himself to accomplish nothing?


That was the whole point! Those who do not learn from their past mistakes (Cooper) are doomed to repeat them. Lynch & Frost plays around with deux ex machina - making Aristotle turn in his grave and purposefully creating (temporary) audience frustration, until episode 18 explains why it had to be that way.
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Audrey Horne » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:09 pm

I think that’s one of the reasons it doesn’t work for me though. Because I don’t think the Cooper character warrants that kind of exploration. For some reason I always view it, when it’s working at its best as a fairy tale, a very adult, dark fairy tale. So with the darkness and twistedness of the sixteen episodes, I love when Cooper wakes up and is in control, and enlightened. And as an audience member I believe he will fix everything... granted, I don’t mean put a cap on every moment and explain it but that I feel we’re in capable hands and everything is okay in the world. The same with the the horrible plight of Audrey’s nightmare. I don’t mind any of it, as long as there is hope at the end. That’s just what I felt Lynch and Frost were with this world, underneath it all, just big ol softies. This ending just seems so bleak and mean spirited. Not where I’m reevaluating everything but where I just shrug.

But that’s just how I respond to the piece and why I am basically disappointed. If it speaks to others and they get something out of it, that’s great. But for me, I think it is more of a shock that I’m not engrossed in the story but reevaluating the mindset of the combination of the duo I loved so much that created the world.
God, I love this music. Isn't it too dreamy?
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Re: Twin Peaks Return: The Profoundly Disappointed Support Group (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr. Reindeer » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:37 pm

Audrey — I disagree that Dale is unworthy of this type of exploration. One of the most fascinating things about this season to me is that L/F made the seemingly counterintuitive decision to give the Diane Selwyn/Nikki Grace/Fred Madison treatment to a character who, over the course of 29 episodes of the original show, seemed to be largely infalliable, and more archetype than human — a nerd’s version of James Bond, as it were. How on Earth could fragmenting such a psychologically straightforward character make for compelling television? The fact that they made it work (in shockingly timely fashion) with an exploration of how even the most noble male impulses can have toxic results was riveting to me. Of course, as Mark has pointed out, the foundation was laid in S2 and MLMT, but this season took it to another level entirely. Dale isn’t infallible, nor should he be, because we are ALL flawed and imperfect creatures.

I also disagree that the show is “mean spirited.” I viewed so much of it as deeply humanistic, albeit in a different way from the original and FWWM. For instance, I just watched Part 16 today on Blu Ray, and wept at the scene where Dale tells Janey-E and Sonny Jim, “I’ll walk through that red door, and I’ll be home for good.” To me, that scene says so much about Dale. He loves this family and is providing for them by creating a new Dougie, but he knows that life will never be his, as much as he wants it (echoes of the tape he made in Episode 18, wondering if he is too broken to eventually have a family). He walks away from something beautiful and comfortable to do what he views as the right thing — saving Laura — even if he is wrong. To me, the fact that the season didn't end with Cooper swooping in to save the day while munching a donut makes the piece MORE human, not less. I love the complexity it gave to Dale, and I think it complements rather than diminishes the original.

Are the current states of some characters sad? Sure; but this is a franchise where the inciting incident was the brutal rape and murder of a teenage girl. I don’t think some melancholy and exploration of mortality is unwarranted, particularly when handled with humanity, as I believe it was here. And there is plenty of joy: Dougie, Ed & Norma, Betty & Bobby — heck, even Chantal & Hutch’s moments of casual marital bliss in the truck eating Wendy’s. In a lot of ways, I think this show was far cheerier than Episode 14, Episode 29 or FWWM.
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